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The article you linked to says they only realize it by late December. Yes, it says the first patient was in November, but nobody knew what it was. If it was just one or two people with it, it's undetectable.
If this is truly the case, makes you wonder just how spread of this really is in comparison to what we know now. People traveling for potentially a couple of months not knowing a new virus is out there, especially with how infectious it is, means a lot more people possibly had it, more asymptomatic cases, people not even getting sick from it, etc.
They reported to who on 12.31.2019
But wikipedia noted first known case was december. I haven't checked the latest on it so dates may have changed
This is the thing, if the intelligence community warned Trump in November, and he goes on to continue to say it was a hoax, the deaths of every person who has passed us on his hands.
I've had family members who've passed from COVID19 in the past couple of weeks and the indiscretion shown by this administration has pissed me off as they don't give a damn about the people who are suffering.
I've had family members who've passed from COVID19 in the past couple of weeks and the indiscretion shown by this administration has pissed me off as they don't give a damn about the people who are suffering.
If intelligence services report this to a committee in the president's administration, they could have notified the CDC to be prepared for a new SARS-like outbreak. Further, the CDC could have allerted the World Health Organization which could put China on notice that there's intelligence of a new SARS-like outbreak. If American intelligence reported on this *based off of monitoring wire services (spying) and satelite imagery* then the Chinese government did as well because they were talking about it and doing something that gets picked up via satelite imagery. The CDC or American officials at the WHO could quietly and internally pressure China to open dialog about it. Instead, of course, China had an official state response of denial into January.
On the American side, if the CDC knows about a new SARS type infection (which this was being called "SARS coronavirus" by the end of december) they could mobilize response much like the CDC did with SARS, MERS, Ebola, Zika, and other outbreaks during capable administrations. Task forces could be created to be ready to respond. The Trump Administration wouldn't put a doctor at the head of the Coronavirus task force until March 10; It ddidn't get any publity until February 28 when Pence was put in charge of it. The task force could have recommended that Trump stop calling it a hoax. This isn't a novel concept either. The Bush Administration was prepared for SARS; the Obama administration was prepared for MERS and Ebola. Because they took the information from experts and acted on it, they didn't over-react, but they acted on it quietly so that when information became available from civilian/non-intelligence health experts, the US was prepared not just to protect Americans, but to prevent the spread of the diseases by helping foreign countries respond.
While affirmative acts like travel bans or stay at home orders would be less likely and ripe to criticism (much like how the initial travel ban was criticized), just having a task force in place by ... December instead of, really, 3 months later, could have prevented that 3 months of denialism. It didn't though. "Rattling the markets" was more important to Donald Trump in November, December, January, February, and the first 2 weeks of March. And now, not only will the marrkets be rattled, but the economy has collapsed and we'll now be in a prolonged depression, followed by recession, and hopefully a 2021 or 2022 recovery just to *get back* to 2016, Pre-Trump economic growth.
While yes it is true that a lot of doctors said they only realized they were dealing with a new coronavirus by late December, that does not seem to be an opinion shared by all within the Chinese medical community. You are also right that if it was just a few people with it it would be undetectable. But we do not know if it really was just one or two people. I do not think it is too implausible that COVID was already spreading rapidly in November and the American government and by extension the Chinese government knew something was going on even if they could not pin point the disease itself or the number of reported infected.
The report that US intelligence knew about a viral outbreak in November could be bogus (it could very well be!), I think there is enough smoke to not just automatically dismiss this article as fake.
You can still prepare by accumulating resources, which coincidentally we don't have in the US. That alone would have saved thousands of lives.
Honestly unless they are personally affected, there is a degree of separation that a lot of people maintain so they can rationalize their vote.
IF they received a report by november, they wouldve realized that they were fucked because the white house has reduced our pandemic response capabilities by getting rid of the agency that was created to protect the country from these viruses, but their ineptitude & carelessness has led us to the current situation
Being aware and handling the situation during November wouldve been nice but they still had the same non response until it got real in march - 4 months later
Being aware and handling the situation during November wouldve been nice but they still had the same non response until it got real in march - 4 months later
I mean regardless of if the US government knew about COVID-19, you'd think they would have contingency and response plans in place for ANY kind of pandemic.
But I guess Trump fucked that up too
But I guess Trump fucked that up too
I really wonder what the numbers would look like right now if this was starting to spread widely in November/December. Would the asymptomatic rate be higher? Would we need to look into seeing how many deaths that were originally listed as Flu related be switched to COVID? A lot of questions come into play if this information is true.
Thanks. Even we do some quality posting from time to time.
Nah, shitty is what they did to my country and family for over two decades. I'm good.
Dude has blood on his hands
He's the president of the fucking USA stacked with republican toadies at every level and still can't get shit done. What a waste of oxygen.
Ah-ah-ah, dirty foreigners. Now the death column is filling with Americans, outrage!
what do y'all know about US intelligence agencies that would make you defend them, honestly?
Far too many human beings have been harassed, killed and had their rights trampled by those agencies for these kinds of posts to defend them
I highly doubt that this is true unless US intelligence were the ones to plant the virus there in November. Which is also untrue.
Source other than South China Morning Post? Not asking to be an asshole, I just can't find this in a reliable media.
Wasn't defending CIA atrocities but not feeding this derail otherwise.
Am I misreading the article or was the warning in November a warning that it could be bad for the US forces in Asia and not that it would spread to the US? It seems like the later would have been an impossible call to make in November considering we knew nothing about the virus.
IC kidnapping, torturing, overthrowing democratic movements etc etc is known, condemned and adds less than nothing to the conversation
You said nothing of value, while putting the burden on me and excusing yourself for it. Kinda cool.
It's better to put the blame on the WHO and China. Our leader demands it.
More like..."Bury it...nothing gets in the way of my kleptocratic, juiced-up economy"
It was traced to November 17, not detected. There's a difference.
Better attempt. Based on the SCMP report alone we don't know if cases weren't detected at the time, that they were detected but not recognised as a new disease, or they were detected and recognised but reporting was suppressed.
Attempt at what? The world's not out to get you: don't be a drama queen.
I personally think no one should ever take at face value stuff that "intelligence officials" tells to American media on deep background.
These are not whistleblowers, ABC don't have access to CIA analysts or the raw intelligence. These are political people who are talking to the news for political reasons.
Based on virus dating, the virus originated around this time. It's going to take weeks before any one notices something going on.