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Blackbird

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,447
Brazil

View: https://twitter.com/MagusFirebeard/status/1547226333763096576?t=iENMPjtE3jtgQrV07IPH1w&s=19


View: https://twitter.com/MagusFirebeard/status/1547227753832845318?t=TR4sXguWf6LmDYQh9pFhhA&s=19


View: https://twitter.com/MagusFirebeard/status/1547232377205690368?t=7itekTO2-Tr-K4hLkei_4w&s=19


View: https://twitter.com/MagusFirebeard/status/1547274254021840896?t=wMIIgJynbvniA5NIqYGjpw&s=19

There's a lot more said within the actual thread, so i highly recommend reading it for the full picture.

It's just very frustrating and frankly exhausting hearing how bad QAs are usually treated in this industry, without even mentioning all the extra negatives of becoming a dev in general.
 

Caeda

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,901
Danbury, CT
Also to speak to how bad the wages are for any sort of games testing position, at least from what I've seen in Seattle, a lot of companies are in Bellevue/Redmond/surrounding towns that do not have the same high minimum wage as Seattle, so they will pay less but the cities are still Fucking Expensive.
 

Musubi

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
23,611
I knew a QA who did work on several WB titles and yeah that tracks. Lots of stories I've heard of people having full on nervous breakdowns because of the workloads and just general treatment.
 

Tactical Tumbler

Sr QA Analyst
Verified
May 26, 2021
296
Also to speak to how bad the wages are for any sort of games testing position, at least from what I've seen in Seattle, a lot of companies are in Bellevue/Redmond/surrounding towns that do not have the same high minimum wage as Seattle, so they will pay less but the cities are still Fucking Expensive.
The hourly pay for some contracting positions are insane for the area. I had a recruiter reach out to me for a QA Lead role that paid $18/hr.. I could make more working at a local grocery store.

I'm incredibly lucky that after almost 10 years in QA I found a studio that not only pays fairly, but also treats QA with respect.
 

Lakeside

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,216
The hourly pay for some contracting positions are insane for the area. I had a recruiter reach out to me for a QA Lead role that paid $18/hr.. I could make more working at a local grocery store.

I'm incredibly lucky that after almost 10 years in QA I found a studio that not only pays fairly, but also treats QA with respect.

Thank you for your service.
 

Afrikan

Member
Oct 28, 2017
16,968
One reason I never got into this field (QA/game tester) is because I didn't want it affecting me and my enjoyment of videogames... something I've loved all my life.

The same with working at a chocolate/cookie factory, can't do it.

I know others are able to balance it... I couldn't.
 

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,624
To be honest reactive development is the norm for software sector in general; except maybe the big 5 like Google, Facebook, Apple, Microsoft, Amazon; and not limited to games industry. No one expects things to work the first time or even the second time anywhere. It's part of package that comes with R&D.

There are so many moving parts in a commercial product that you just simply cannot be proactive to a degree that'd satisfy the testers, instead you'll end up wasting a lot of time because a lot of the problems you encounter would simply not something you can account for in advance even if the components themseleves are flawless (which they never are and never could be) because those problems won't show up until the components get integrated with each other and start working together. As a roughly high level example, let's take physics in a game. Unless your physics engine is simulating real world physics 100% you will be approximating things i.e. basically hacking it to work. And you don't know how it's going to react with the level you created until you put those two together and give it a run.

Additionally, reactive development works well with milestones which is important to show progress to stakeholders and investors. Basically it's easier to sell new additions to this group than it is to sell fixes for existing things, you'll be granted time to do the former if requested but not the later. And this is a story that'll resonate with employees in every single software company, except the big 5, regardless of which industry you are in.

That said, it absolutely means a lot of work for QA and as such they should be compensated accordingly. But for far too long games industry has gotten away with QA being the "entry" job to games industry and as such paying the testers low wages. Additionally, hard crunch exists primarily because the project management prefers to crunch instead of extend development time and that is a problem with the culture and the business in general, which needs to change as well along with better project management.

Infact I've noticed something recently, while the cost of living is going up and up the salary for entry level positions in tech are actually dropping in many places. In my company itself while every role got a decent bump for the base pay for new hires, the entry level and associate roles actually pay £2K less than what they did 2 years ago when I joined the company. Which is so asinine!

The problem here is not the development methodology per say, but rather the treatment of QA testers and the attitude of project management. A Senior QA leading a team of people, making $20 an hour in USA is silly.
 
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Pheonix

Banned
Dec 14, 2018
5,990
St Kitts
Unless I am mistaken, I don't think you need any qualifications to be a QA.

And like any other profession where you don't need a degree, it basically makes it a trade service like doing drywall, carpentry...etc. Your value or worth would ultimately come down to your experience and how good you are at it.

Most companies in the world, would try and pay as close to the minimum wage for something like that, and unfortunately, since they have that belief at the back of their heads with all such jobs that they could pull someone from the street to replace them, the poor treatment would follow.

I believe two things should probably happen to curb all this.

  1. There should be some sort of course and some sort of standardized requirements for being a QA, even if it's a 6-week program, that would make you a registered, certified QA. and;

  2. They should all be Unionized.
Its flat out naive and stupid to expect fair treatment out of the good of the publisher's heart.
 

Tactical Tumbler

Sr QA Analyst
Verified
May 26, 2021
296
Unless I am mistaken, I don't think you need any qualifications to be a QA.
For actual entry level QA this is true. In those roles you're mostly just doing BVTs, verifying bug fixes, or performing general adhoc/exploratory testing. And those roles are normally farmed out to external groups like Keywords Studios or Lionbridge where they pay in pennies and generally treat you like crap.
 

SteveWinwood

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,676
USA USA USA
I'd say a whole lot of companies are reactive and relatively poorly managed. Gotta do the shortest term planning for easy wins, larger goals be damned. Yeah we put on a band-aid that will fall apart in a month and make the problem ten times worse... but we were green today!

Yeah that sounds awful. QA deserves a whole hell of a lot more.
 

Pheonix

Banned
Dec 14, 2018
5,990
St Kitts
For actual entry level QA this is true. In those roles you're mostly just doing BVTs, verifying bug fixes, or performing general adhoc/exploratory testing. And those roles are normally farmed out to external groups like Keywords Studios or Lionbridge where they pay in pennies and generally treat you like crap.
Yeah, that's what I thought. So to me, it's kind of obvious why it's how it is.

I'd say a whole lot of companies are reactive and relatively poorly managed. Gotta do the shortest term planning for easy wins, larger goals be damned. Yeah we put on a band-aid that will fall apart in a month and make the problem ten times worse... but we were green today!

Yeah that sounds awful. QA deserves a whole hell of a lot more.

I can't imagine game development being anything but reactive. I don't even think its possible.

The only thing that can really be said is that more time should be given for reiteration and bug fixes, but what is enough time? Even that of itself is reactive. I believe every studio sets out some time for polishing and bug fixes. Hell, that's usually what makes up most of what we all call crunch. The only proactive thing a publisher can do is hear a targeted release date, and without telling the game director, internally give it an extra 12-18 months just in case.

But time is money... and it's a kinda double-edged sword. The more time it takes to "complete" the game, the more expensive that game is by default. It cost money to pay devs, and everyone has a budget and answers to someone.
 

Otakunofuji

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,129
Calling out the shitty pay is good, but this also has serious "Game development is SOOO easy. Why don't they just ... " armchair Twitter/Reddit/ERA expert energy that is harder to take seriously.
 

Vinc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,387
To be honest reactive development is the norm for software sector in general; except maybe the big 5 like Google, Facebook, Apple, Microsoft, Amazon; and not limited to games industry. No one expects things to work the first time or even the second time anywhere. It's part of package that comes with R&D.

There are so many moving parts in a commercial product that you just simply cannot be proactive to a degree that'd satisfy the testers, instead you'll end up wasting a lot of time because a lot of the problems you encounter would simply not something you can account for in advance even if the components themseleves are flawless (which they never are and never could be) because those problems won't show up until the components get integrated with each other and start working together. As a roughly high level example, let's take physics in a game. Unless your physics engine is simulating real world physics 100% you will be approximating things i.e. basically hacking it to work. And you don't know how it's going to react with the level you created until you put those two together and give it a run.

Additionally, reactive development works well with milestones which is important to show progress to stakeholders and investors. Basically it's easier to sell new additions to this group than it is to sell fixes for existing things, you'll be granted time to do the former if requested but not the later. And this is a story that'll resonate with employees in every single software company, except the big 5, regardless of which industry you are in.

That said, it absolutely means a lot of work for QA and as such they should be compensated accordingly. But for far too long games industry has gotten away with QA being the "entry" job to games industry and as such paying the testers low wages. Additionally, hard crunch exists primarily because the project management prefers to crunch instead of extend development time and that is a problem with the culture and the business in general, which needs to change as well along with better project management.

Infact I've noticed something recently, while the cost of living is going up and up the salary for entry level positions in tech are actually dropping in many places. In my company itself while every role got a decent bump for the base pay for new hires, the entry level and associate roles actually pay £2K less than what they did 2 years ago when I joined the company. Which is so asinine!

The problem here is not the development methodology per say, but rather the treatment of QA testers and the attitude of project management. A Senior QA leading a team of people, making $20 an hour in USA is silly.

Yep. Basically Agile vs Waterfall...

Sadly the needs for large amounts of testers in game dev in particular causes a lot of problems with the Agile model. Black box QA is still very waterfall, while the rest of the software industry at large is Agile. And software dev NEEDS to use the Agile model. QA needs to be embedded as much as possible to be most effective, but it's nigh impossible to do at the scale needed for AAA games.
 

Asriel

Member
Dec 7, 2017
2,443
Calling out the shitty pay is good, but this also has serious "Game development is SOOO easy. Why don't they just ... " armchair Twitter/Reddit/ERA expert energy that is harder to take seriously.

I definitely sympathize with the lack of pay, (not limited to the games industry), but I agree.
 

KillstealWolf

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
16,069
The other annoying thing is to read "This game is sooo buggy, how did QA not catch this?" when most likely yes, QA did catch it, but higher ups said they had to ship it anyway to meet their arbitrary deadline.
 

PieOMy

Member
Nov 15, 2018
616
Boston
In my opinion QA is an old school role that should be phased out because of the low pay. QA could be rolled into the programmer's, artist's, product manager's, etc, responsibilities.
 

Deleted member 12009

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,141
It's a fucking travesty how we treat these people. And the amount of hours necessary to replicate issues is insane, and the job is just too big in so many of these games. Not to mention that QA requires a lot of technical knowledge and good writing skills.
 

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,322
I don't think I've heard people speak glowingly about their experiences working in QA. It's almost always bad. These folks deserve to get paid more for how critical they are to the finished product of what most people happily consume without thought of how it got it a finished state.
 

Lady Gaia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,477
Seattle
Part of the reason features get called "completed" when they're actually far from it is artificial pressure to hit deadlines. Given a choice between pretending to meet your goal when in reality you know it's not even close, and getting your feature in good polished shape but making your boss look bad because the date he promised didn't happen? The former might even get you promoted.

Yes, it's pathetic. Also very, very common. I spent an entire career breaking teams of their bad software development habits - just not in the gaming space.
 
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julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,759
In my opinion QA is an old school role that should be phased out because of the low pay. QA could be rolled into the programmer's, artist's, product manager's, etc, responsibilities.
Oh god no. Expecting the person who made the code or design change to be able to QA their own work is a recipe for disaster.
 

gozu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,315
America
I can confirm there are recruiters out there still spamming me for $17/h because I had "QA tester" on my resume from when I did it over a decade ago.

I can also confirm we were not given enough time to test and the company released a knowingly under-tested software. Because money.
 

big_z

Member
Nov 2, 2017
7,794
Years ago EA was paying minimum for QA with no benefits. McDonald's was paying 20-25% more with benefits.

Usually senior QA or QA lead gets paid well. I wonder what company is trying to hire at $20. A Pathetic offer. It's laughable how bad this industry can be.

In my opinion QA is an old school role that should be phased out because of the low pay. QA could be rolled into the programmer's, artist's, product manager's, etc, responsibilities.

It's far too time consuming to do that and there are times we're developers are working alongside QA already. As games have gotten more complex over the years there's far more need for QA testing and unfortunately wages haven't adjusted with the workload. A lot of companies will churn through people in QA as they burn out quickly.

For actual entry level QA this is true. In those roles you're mostly just doing BVTs, verifying bug fixes, or performing general adhoc/exploratory testing. And those roles are normally farmed out to external groups like Keywords Studios or Lionbridge where they pay in pennies and generally treat you like crap.

External groups like keywords are supposed to pay at lease minimum based on locational pay grid but they use outdated information, excuses or loopholes to pay below.
 

Banjo Tango

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
363
Calling out the shitty pay is good, but this also has serious "Game development is SOOO easy. Why don't they just ... " armchair Twitter/Reddit/ERA expert energy that is harder to take seriously.
He's not saying it's easy, he's saying their process sucks and they're making it harder for themselves by just accepting that its "worked" for them in the past, so why change anything.

Which as a (not-games) developer for almost 20 years now... I get it.
 

Tactical Tumbler

Sr QA Analyst
Verified
May 26, 2021
296
External groups like keywords are supposed to pay at lease minimum based on locational pay grid but they use outdated information, excuses or loopholes to pay below.
Yeah, I'm well aware of Keywords and their questionable practices when it comes to pay and promotions. Worked there for roughly 6 years.
 
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dose

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,455
The only proactive thing a publisher can do is hear a targeted release date, and without telling the game director, internally give it an extra 12-18 months just in case.
in my experience publishers have *never* given that much leeway. They want it out of the door asap to meet targets.

Most of the QA quotes are pretty close to the truth tbh, there is usually not enough time given for iteration or polishing. Also, QA for the likes of banking and enterprise companies is considered very important and they pay a hell of a lot more.
 

Henrar

Member
Nov 27, 2017
1,905
In my opinion QA is an old school role that should be phased out because of the low pay. QA could be rolled into the programmer's, artist's, product manager's, etc, responsibilities.
Lmao, I know some companies (some gamedev related, some not)) that decided to ditch QA. It didn't end well for them or their product.

The role of QA belongs to QA and not to people who's work should be tested, FFS.
 
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ClivePwned

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,617
Australia
In my opinion QA is an old school role that should be phased out because of the low pay. QA could be rolled into the programmer's, artist's, product manager's, etc, responsibilities.
the people who make the bugs should find the bugs? Sounds like a plan
it-worked-on-d9e3629876.jpg
 

Bryo4321

Member
Nov 20, 2017
1,511
Yeah, I'm looking for positions on different software outside of gaming. Gaming just sucks, the pay sucks, and nobody listens to QA when we see the shit storm coming from a mile away every time. We know these products better than many of the people making them. I've heard of some companies changing their approach for the better in the industry but still for the most part QA is just a dead end in the game industry.
 

klauskpm

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,244
Brazil
Also, QA for the likes of banking and enterprise companies is considered very important and they pay a hell of a lot more.
This is super true. I hope more QAs in gaming realize this and migrate.

In my opinion QA is an old school role that should be phased out because of the low pay. QA could be rolled into the programmer's, artist's, product manager's, etc, responsibilities.
No. Like. I'm no game dev. I'm a web dev. So my scopes are extremely more controlled than games, as users can interact with several things at the same time in different ways, while on web it is way more limited usually. And we can't replace QA people even if we wanted to. QAs are developers too. In my world, they also develop integration and end-to-end tests. They have a lot of knowledge that is specific and they are masters of it. Things like knowing where to find flaws or finding false positives in tests. If you let games be tested by developers, they would test the happy path and be done. There would be a feast of games that you could dupe items by dropping a negative quantity of items.
 

Agentnibs

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
563
I can't believe they are getting paid that low. Non gaming qa doesn't seem to have this problem
 

Spoit

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,976
I can't believe they are getting paid that low. Non gaming qa doesn't seem to have this problem
I mean, not that bad. But in non-games dev, it's still not always sunshine and roses. Even if it is treated as a actual skilled tech job and not a minimum wage meatgrinder, it still usually has the perception of an entry level position where people just put in a year or two to say they've worked in tech before moving up to a dev or management position. And even if they are embeded in the teams, due to that aforementioned senority problem, they're still just treated as a bullet point in the decision making process, and not really able to call a stop to a feature that needs to be pushed now due to buisness reasons unless it's a very major problem
 

elenarie

Game Developer
Verified
Jun 10, 2018
9,798
One thing to note is that the craft is very reliant on outsourcing. Even when it comes to hiring. So if you see a position about a QA thing in Y location, check who your actual employer is. It is highly likely that while you will work at Y location, you would actually be employed by Z company and then only contracted to be at Y.

In such a position, usually it is Z company that establishes the pay, benefits and similar things.
 

Farlander

Game Designer
Verified
Sep 29, 2021
329
I feel the guy, a lot of the problems he mentions stem from 4 things:

1. Production really doesn't like giving buffers (that are a NECESSITY because literally a feature is NEVER done in the amount of time the original estimation is done in) since they usually have to make sure that the whole scope fits into the limited timeframe that the project is given. What I always taught people in my team is to always double their estimations, but never actually say they're doubled. I.e. if you think it will take X to handle a feature, say 2X, and then if the feature is important it will also get some 0.5X buffer. What often happens is that people give their original estimations, the feature is not done in that timeframe (of course) because of all the problems that popped up during development. And the reason why it's important to hide the fact that your estimation is doubled is because a lot of producers and production managers when learn that fact try to push the feature to be handled in the 1X time instead of the 2X time.

2. I will be honest, I have seen only a couple of Creative Directors who are ACTUALLY good at their job. Most of them are just good at talking (which is how they got their job in the first place, I suppose), but are actually too chaotic and don't really hold any sort of vision that would help to direct the little amount of iterations an AAA production usually has. It's not uncommon for a project to be in a "creative searching" during the first half of its production and then hastily trying to actually do and finish and connect everything together in the second half. I had friends at CDPR who were VERY disappointed by the process games like Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk that they worked on had. Which is - the game is an ethereal mess with no direction and a lot of vague ambition and ideas that don't have a plan to how get implemented/polished, it stays in that state for a very long time, and then oh shit it's time to crunch and finish the project and actually make decisions (which also leads to a lot of features that were worked on being cut because there was no understanding how to fit them into the bigger picture in the first place).

3. A lot of projects that are completed in such way actually get high metacritic scores and good sales, validating their approach. Companies like to say 'oh we will change our work/life balance to the better, we will work on our processes, etc', but 95% of the time unless the game becomes a critical and sales failure, things don't actually change.

4. I have 10 years in the industry, and there's actually a VERY small amount of developers with that mileage. Due to an INCREDIBLY high churn, there's a disproportionate amount of people with less than 5 years of experience, alongside a considerable number of people who stubbornly survived and got past 20+ years and stay. But in comparison to those two groups, there's a VERY little amount of people with this middle range of 5-20 years. The reason this matters is because people leave, new people come in, and they don't have enough people who would teach them this kind of stuff, so in the end people are making the same mistakes over and over again, leave game dev, new people come in, the cycle continues.
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,800
A lot of the thread rings true with my experience in game dev and I've never gone back. I'd love to, because the idea of making games is so alluring, but the reality when it comes to corporate pressure? Nah.
 

ekim

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,403
In my opinion QA is an old school role that should be phased out because of the low pay. QA could be rolled into the programmer's, artist's, product manager's, etc, responsibilities.

My last employee did this. (Enterprise level software development)
They cut the dedicated QA Team and people within the single teams had to test their own stuff. But without an overarching QA team, they found out quickly, that this is not working as the single components worked but not in tantrum with other components from other teams. We did ship anyway and fixed bugs based on customer feedback. Basically the paying customer was our QA department. It was tried to mitigate the problem by shipping preview versions (aka not-even-Alpha-versions) to selected partners and customers in advance. Problem was, that nobody would go through the hassle to setup a running system with real world specs to test an unfinished build because there is no migration path from the preview build to the GA version. Don't know if they are still going that route.
 

basic_text

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,024
Derby, UK
I don't think it's a game dev exclusive thing unfortunately, I work in web QA and we often use the phrase "trolley pushers of the world, unite" when it comes to regression testig.
Sums up how much we're respected.
 

ehmprah

Member
Jun 24, 2022
17
I'm a solo indie gamedev who doesn't have any budget for QA. I create bugs which are eagerly being found by voluntary playtesters and the community. In return the players have a ton of influence how the game's being developed and where things are going. While I agree that the people creating the bugs should also be the ones finding and fixing them, it's really hard for two reasons: Apart from time, it's unbelievably hard to step out of your personal "control scheme". I had so many bugs reported that I would have easily found myself if I were just using the game differently, trying different interactions and so on. To some degree, you just need other brains and eyes and hands to widen your horizon.
 

Bushido

Senior Game Designer
Verified
Feb 6, 2018
1,849
In my opinion QA is an old school role that should be phased out because of the low pay. QA could be rolled into the programmer's, artist's, product manager's, etc, responsibilities.
The result would be absolutely horrible and unplayable. They are different departments with differing skill sets and expertise for a reason. Just pay QA what they deserve, treat them with respect and plan everything with a buffer. In an ideal world…
 

Mario_Bones

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3,512
Australia
QA is treated horribly most places, but outside of games at least the pay is usually decent. When I was trying to leave my last awful QA job I thought I'd have a look at local studios with QA positions and found I'd be taking a 60% paycut… if I took on a LEAD position. Absolutely insane

Some of the crunch and mistreatment I've dealt with as QA has been horrible, and hearing stories of even worse conditions within the games industry is heartbreaking
 

big_z

Member
Nov 2, 2017
7,794
For those who have worked QA in games what was the age range and average age of the testers?

If you worked QA outside of games what was the age range and the average age?
 
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AstralSphere

Member
Feb 10, 2021
8,963
In my opinion QA is an old school role that should be phased out because of the low pay. QA could be rolled into the programmer's, artist's, product manager's, etc, responsibilities.

They are an important department. You can't just throw their jobs away just because they are severely underpaid.

What the fuck. Real "anyone could do that job" energy.
 

SlickShoes

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,770
For those who have worked QA in games what was the age range and average age of the testers?

If you worked QA outside of games what was the age range and the average age?

I worked in QA for a AAA developer and the average age of the team must have been between 18-25, the only people above 30 were the two managers.(this was a long time ago though 2004-2006). You can follow the studio I worked at other releases to see that most of the QA staff just vanish out of the industry unless they were only in QA as programmers/designers biding their time for a promotion.

Once I completed my contract at a AAA developer I had job offers to continue in QA but, the pay and hours were so bad I just went and worked IT Support for 1.5x the wage and 95% less stress.

I actually enjoyed working in QA, but the hours were absolutely soul-destroying, I understand that grinding long hours is seen as a right of passage but for me it was like an alarm going off in my head to never to do it again. I had a 9 month period where all I did was work and sleep while everyone else continued their lives and I missed out on so much stuff, it really wasn't worth it to continue giving my life to a company that would have no issue terminating my contract at a moments notice.
 

Tygre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,100
Chesire, UK
I feel the guy, a lot of the problems he mentions stem from 4 things:

1. Production really doesn't like giving buffers (that are a NECESSITY because literally a feature is NEVER done in the amount of time the original estimation is done in) since they usually have to make sure that the whole scope fits into the limited timeframe that the project is given. What I always taught people in my team is to always double their estimations, but never actually say they're doubled. I.e. if you think it will take X to handle a feature, say 2X, and then if the feature is important it will also get some 0.5X buffer. What often happens is that people give their original estimations, the feature is not done in that timeframe (of course) because of all the problems that popped up during development. And the reason why it's important to hide the fact that your estimation is doubled is because a lot of producers and production managers when learn that fact try to push the feature to be handled in the 1X time instead of the 2X time.

Great post, but this in particular can't be overstated.

I have over 15 years experience working in QA / Software Testing, inside and outside of the games industry: No serious piece of development work is ever, ever, ever done inside of estimate.

Planning poker, three-point, bottom-up, top-down, finger in the air... I've seen every estimation method under the sun tried, and they all fail. What's worse is everyone knows this, and yet somehow projects are still run like nobody will ever go over-estimate.

In my opinion QA is an old school role that should be phased out because of the low pay. QA could be rolled into the programmer's, artist's, product manager's, etc, responsibilities.

Haha, oh man. Good one. That's some funny, funny stuff.

Just in case you were serious: No, this is an incredibly stupid idea.

Unless I am mistaken, I don't think you need any qualifications to be a QA.

I believe two things should probably happen to curb all this.
  1. There should be some sort of course and some sort of standardized requirements for being a QA, even if it's a 6-week program, that would make you a registered, certified QA. and;
  2. They should all be Unionized.

You don't need any qualifications, no, but there are a number of accredited and widely accepted industry standard qualifications like the ISTQB and a few others.

In my experience they are fairly useless, and they certainly wouldn't solve these issues, because these are issues QA is dealing with, not issues caused by QA.

Software engineers should absolutely unionise though. Everyone should.
 

Marossi

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,997
As an former QA tester, this is the main problem

I live in Brasil and there's the biggest of contractor QA company in Brasil, they have worked on many many AAA, their pay is fucking DOGSHIT for living in São Paulo, they had people who worked on projects for YEARS and not get credited at all, NO remote office at all, not even in the hardest time of the pandemic, employees were required to come to the office at all times, extremely opressive culture that mentally drained your will to live, and best of all?

They do not allow for you to put what project you worked on your resume, even if the game has already released and your name is on the credits.

QA for games is one of the most dogshit sectors filled with the best people I've ever met who are full of dreams of making into the industry before being destroyed by the oiled machine cycle of 1 year as QA that makes you want to never work again in the industry thanks to all of above. My faith in working at AAA is completely broken and nowadays I prefer working on mobile or indie games because at least there's a better chance of being treated as, you know, a person.