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AkumaNiko

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,437
When Summit was done, researchers analyzed the results. It was, in the words of Dr. Daniel Jacobson, lead researcher and chief scientist for computational systems biology at Oak Ridge, a "eureka moment." The computer had revealed a new theory about how Covid-19 impacts the body: the bradykinin hypothesis. The hypothesis provides a model that explains many aspects of Covid-19, including some of its most bizarre symptoms. It also suggests 10-plus potential treatments, many of which are already FDA approved. Jacobson's group published their results in a paper in the journal eLife in early July.

According to the team's findings, a Covid-19 infection generally begins when the virus enters the body through ACE2 receptors in the nose, (The receptors, which the virus is known to target, are abundant there.) The virus then proceeds through the body, entering cells in other places where ACE2 is also present: the intestines, kidneys, and heart. This likely accounts for at least some of the disease's cardiac and GI symptoms.

The renin–angiotensin system (RAS) controls many aspects of the circulatory system, including the body's levels of a chemical called bradykinin, which normally helps to regulate blood pressure. According to the team's analysis, when the virus tweaks the RAS, it causes the body's mechanisms for regulating bradykinin to go haywire. Bradykinin receptors are resensitized, and the body also stops effectively breaking down bradykinin. (ACE normally degrades bradykinin, but when the virus downregulates it, it can't do this as effectively.)

The end result, the researchers say, is to release a bradykinin storm — a massive, runaway buildup of bradykinin in the body. According to the bradykinin hypothesis, it's this storm that is ultimately responsible for many of Covid-19's deadly effects. Jacobson's team says in their paper that "the pathology of Covid-19 is likely the result of Bradykinin Storms rather than cytokine storms," which had been previously identified in Covid-19 patients, but that "the two may be intricately linked." Other papers had previously identified bradykinin storms as a possible cause of Covid-19's pathologies. Covid-19 is like a burglar who slips in your unlocked second-floor window and starts to ransack your house.As bradykinin builds up in the body, it dramatically increases vascular permeability. In short, it makes your blood vessels leaky. This aligns with recent clinical data, which increasingly views Covid-19 primarily as a vascular disease, rather than a respiratory one. But Covid-19 still has a massive effect on the lungs. As blood vessels start to leak due to a bradykinin storm, the researchers say, the lungs can fill with fluid. Immune cells also leak out into the lungs, Jacobson's team found, causing inflammation.


TLDR; A supercomputer analyzed a bunch of Covid data and concluded that Covid makes your body produce too much of a chemical that naturally regulates your blood pressure. So, it's not really a respiratory virus, it's a circulatory virus, which explains the crazy variety in symptoms. Drugs already exist to manage this chemical.

huge if true

elemental.medium.com

A Supercomputer Analyzed Covid-19 — and an Interesting New Theory Has Emerged

A closer look at the Bradykinin hypothesis
 
Last edited:

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,754
This has been known for a while (the virus causing your body to overreact and produce a defense response)
 

peppermints

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,656
Seems too good to be true to have one eureka moment but obviously would love if this were the case.
 

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
53,148
RlPKA7Y.png


"May 29"

wut
 
OP
OP
AkumaNiko

AkumaNiko

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,437
This has been known for a while (the virus causing your body to overreact and produce a defense response)

True but now its gaining more traction and getting more validity. The original finding was may 29, but more studies pretty much make it confirmed. now they need to figure out how to combat it
 

thuway

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,168
No offense, but I'd rather this information not be disseminated so idiots can signal boost how a vaccine isn't necessary.
 

Falore

Banned
Feb 15, 2019
745
TBH i'm not even sold on covid being real.

Let me ask you this. If Covid is real then how did the rock get it when rocks don't even have respiratory systems. Hell, if covid is real then how was captain america able to pick up thors hammer? hmm? it doesn't make any sense. I think its a hoax.
 

thuway

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,168
Pardon my ignorance but wouldn't a vaccine still be necessary? Meaning, how can findings like these possibly be interpreted that way?
Have you seen the idiocy being parroted about the virus? This article was written on May 28th as well, which should give us a warning sign as to how reflective it is of today's understanding
 

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
53,148
No offense, but I'd rather this information not be disseminated so idiots can signal boost how a vaccine isn't necessary.
How could this specific piece of news mean a vaccine isn't necessary?

If someone believes a vaccine isn't necessary this piece of news isn't going to reinforce their belief.

And if someone believes a vaccine is necessary, this piece of news isn't going to disconfirm
 

thuway

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,168
How could this specific piece of news mean a vaccine isn't necessary?

If someone believes a vaccine isn't necessary this piece of news isn't going to reinforce their belief.

And if someone believes a vaccine is necessary, this piece of news isn't going to disconfirm
I've just seen one too many idiots in real life trying to say covid isn't real and it's started to unsettle me. Nothing against the article.
 

Ketch

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,291
I realize it's the title of the article you found, but there's no need to carry their click bait over to your thread title.

just put the information in the thread title.
 

just_myles

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,465
Have you seen the idiocy being parroted about the virus? This article was written on May 28th as well, which should give us a warning sign as to how reflective it is of today's understanding

I agree with your second point. In may 29th there were a lot of alternative theories (article even calls it that.). However I don't think this necessarily dismisses a need for a vaccine, though:

I suspect from what we see and what our preliminary data show is that this virus has an additional risk factor for blood clots, but I can't prove that yet," Sethi says.

and

continues, "What we're saying is that maybe the best antiviral therapy is not actually an antiviral therapy. The best therapy might actually be a drug that stabilizes the vascular endothelial. We're building a drastically different concept."

Can be misinterpreted by morons.... so I guess you're not far off and I answered my own question 🤷🏿‍♂️
 

just_myles

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,465
Further my point regarding misinterpreting this old article. I believe that theories like these in the early days are not a bad thing to talk about. Part of scientific discovery and understanding is to explore alternative treatments while we wait on a vaccine. The article did a bad job of framing this narrative with the click bait matter of fact headline and its choice quotes that I already highlighted.
 

Unicorn

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
9,550
I was sick a week ago with a lot of symptoms, but tested negative on a rapid test.

I will say that whole time I felt like my heart was pumping faster, which is different than most other times I'm sick with similar symptoms.
 

BarrBarr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
734
It's been common knowledge for ages that COVID isn't a respiratory illness and has been a circulatory virus. I am pretty sure that hospitals have changed their treatments accordingly
 

Min

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,073
The general sentiment has been it's a vascular disease since June (maybe earlier), but it's cool that they're able to detect the physiological and potential molecular mechanism of the disease through this analysis.
 

99nikniht

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,352
This has been known for a while (the virus causing your body to overreact and produce a defense response)

You have a link to a previous article that explains this specific mechanism to COVID-19?

This is the first time I've heard a confirmation of the Angio-tensin relationship to the disease. This was not known as far as the specific mechanism that is highlighted that increases the blood pressure, then causes fluids to leaks out of our blood vessels into our body cavities.
 

Alcoremortis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,571
This is pretty interesting... and if it's accurate, it also means that a lot of the current therapies have been targeting the wrong things. From what I've seen, doctors have been trying to treat pneumonia, but if the pneumonia is a result of the bradykinin storm and that shit's wrecking a bunch of other things at the same time, the pneumonia therapies are too little too late.
 

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,754
This actually seems substantively different than other immune response-based COVID theories I have seen. Those focused on cytokine storms not bradykinin storms. It is tangental, but a new area of study.

Yes, you're right.


You have a link to a previous article that explains this specific mechanism to COVID-19?

This is the first time I've heard a confirmation of the Angio-tensin relationship to the disease. This was not known as far as the specific mechanism that is highlighted that increases the blood pressure, then causes fluids to leaks out of our blood vessels into our body cavities.

See above, I was thinking about the cytokine response actually.
 

HoboDessert

Member
Jun 24, 2019
10
Canada
The general sentiment has been it's a vascular disease since June (maybe earlier), but it's cool that they're able to detect the physiological and potential molecular mechanism of the disease through this analysis.
Exactly. I find it neat also how the original paper even mentions some possible existing drugs (FDA approved even) that could be put through clinical trials as a further test of the hypothesis, and result in new helpful therapies if its correct.
 

dejay

Member
Nov 5, 2017
4,081
This is pretty interesting... and if it's accurate, it also means that a lot of the current therapies have been targeting the wrong things. From what I've seen, doctors have been trying to treat pneumonia, but if the pneumonia is a result of the bradykinin storm and that shit's wrecking a bunch of other things at the same time, the pneumonia therapies are too little too late.

I remember this video describing the use of the steroid dexamethasone as one of the first effective treatments. In it he states that the use of steroids wasn't considered initially (2:10 mark) because the assumption was that it would be ineffective.
www.youtube.com

Is THIS The Real COVID Game Changer? Doctor Explains

A massive UK study has thrown up an unlikely saviour in the form of dexamethasone, a 60 year-old, cheap steroid. The RECOVERY trial has recruited almost 12,0...

I've done a google search for dexamethasone and bradykinin to see if there's a link to explain the effectiveness of dexamethasone given this potentially new understanding. There are historical medical articles on them together but I'm too much of a lay person to interpret them.
 

SRG01

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,020
This has been known for a while (the virus causing your body to overreact and produce a defense response)

Not really. For the longest time, we thought it was cytokines and a general inflammatory response.

Identifying bradykinins is different because there's a whole chain from bradykinins that lead to the inflammatory/cytokine response. Basically, it's further up the chain.


I agree with your second point. In may 29th there were a lot of alternative theories (article even calls it that.). However I don't think this necessarily dismisses a need for a vaccine, though:



and



Can be misinterpreted by morons.... so I guess you're not far off and I answered my own question 🤷🏿‍♂️

Antivirals being surprisingly ineffective was something that happened earlier this year too, with redemsivir being shockingly ineffective against Covid19.


edit: More thoughts: it can be that this bradykinin hypothesis will prove to be effective against all sorts of respiratory illnesses too, not just for covid19.
 

Alcoremortis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,571
I remember this video describing the use of the steroid dexamethasone as one of the first effective treatments. In it he states that the use of steroids wasn't considered initially (2:10 mark) because the assumption was that it would be ineffective.
www.youtube.com

Is THIS The Real COVID Game Changer? Doctor Explains

A massive UK study has thrown up an unlikely saviour in the form of dexamethasone, a 60 year-old, cheap steroid. The RECOVERY trial has recruited almost 12,0...

I've done a google search for dexamethasone and bradykinin to see if there's a link to explain the effectiveness of dexamethasone given this potentially new understanding. There are historical medical articles on them together but I'm too much of a lay person to interpret them.

While I am a biologist... I study microscopic worms and those worms don't have vascular systems, so I feel pretty useless when it comes to weird vascular peptides. Damn you, worms!

From what my brief look tells me, it looks like maybe dexamethasone blocks some of the things bradykinin binds to?
 

Imperfected

Member
Nov 9, 2017
11,737
Covid-19 is like a burglar who slips in your unlocked second-floor window and starts to ransack your house.As bradykinin builds up in the body, it dramatically increases vascular permeability. In short, it makes your blood vessels leaky.

I feel like the person writing this article meant to complete this metaphor ("... and then turns on a clogged faucet, leaving it to flood the house") and never did, leaving the intro to it as this weird out-of-place line that makes no metaphorical sense. How is a burglar ransacking your house specifically similar to having a potentially fatal buildup of a natural chemical your body produces due to a virus blocking the control element?
 

construct

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Jun 5, 2020
7,963
東京
Brady Kinin sounds like a football player

Was the excessive bradykinin response already known? Are there already drugs that tell it to chill out?
 

Disco Stu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,305
I feel like the person writing this article meant to complete this metaphor ("... and then turns on a clogged faucet, leaving it to flood the house") and never did, leaving the intro to it as this weird out-of-place line that makes no metaphorical sense. How is a burglar ransacking your house specifically similar to having a potentially fatal buildup of a natural chemical your body produces due to a virus blocking the control element?
lol I thought the same thing.