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SpaceCrystal

Banned
Apr 1, 2019
7,714
Everyone should just hear me out on this before you start overreacting or dogpiling on me to what I'm about to tell you. As much as it pains me to say this, Trump being elected in 2016 may have been the best outcome over Hillary being elected. And here's why, & this had never hit me until now:

If Trump were to lose to Hillary Clinton back in 2016, she would've most likely be an ineffective president & would most likely be a lame duck throughout her entire term as Republicans control both the House & the Senate, & Hillary would be getting blamed for "not doing enough". People would've been too relaxed, no one would vote, & Republicans would still have control of the House & Senate.

Worst of all; The COVID-19 Pandemic itself. No matter how hard Hillary would try, she would immediately get blamed for even one death from COVID, Republicans would have a big talking point over it & would start running ads about how Hillary had let people die from COVID, including Trump who decides to run for President in 2020. November 2020 election happens, Hillary loses re-election to Trump, Trump becomes president, & instead of correctly dealing with the pandemic for a year, this country would be dealing with it for four more straight years because Trump will fuck everything up like he did during his fourth year as President in response to the pandemic, such as him disbanding the Directorate of Global Health Security & Biodefense. He would've gotten rid of Obama's Pandemic response team, we would have less to no vaccines, etc., & we would be having a lot more than something like 30K+ deaths, or more than 475K+ deaths from COVID that we're already experiencing right now. We would possibly be having millions.

Now that's a very, terrifying thought. Not only that, Trump would've turned America upside down just like he did from 2017 to early 2021, except a lot worse.
 

John Rabbit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,094
Anyone have "Rewrite the Trump presidency happening one month after he's out of office" on their bingo card?

Trump won in 2016.
Biden won in 2020.

What is the point of continuing this historical fiction?
 

Halbrand

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,615
I've thought about this too. Probably wouldn't have a Dem Presidency, House, and Senate now.
 

Deleted member 5359

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,326
What makes you think there would've been a pandemic at all? It happened because the pandemic response team was gutted, we alienated ourselves from the WHO, and I'm pretty sure there was a joint US-Chinese group of scientists based in China that was also shut down by the Trump Admin in 2018 or 2019.
 

Piston

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,157
Just hear me out on this before everyone starts overreacting or dogpiling on me to what I'm about to tell you. As much as it pains me to say this, Trump being elected in 2016 may have been the best outcome over Hillary being elected. And here's why, & this had never hit me until now:

If Trump were to lose to Hillary Clinton back in 2016, she would've most likely be an ineffective president & would most likely be a lame duck throughout her entire term as Republicans control both the House & the Senate, & Hillary would be getting blamed for "not doing enough". People would've been too relaxed, no one would vote, & Republicans would still have control of the House & Senate.

Worst of all; The COVID-19 Pandemic itself. No matter how hard Hillary would try, she would immediately get blamed for even one death from COVID, Republicans would have a big talking point over it & would start running ads about how Hillary had let people die from COVID, including Trump who decides to run for President in 2020. November 2020 election happens, Hillary loses re-election to Trump, Trump becomes president, & instead of correctly dealing with the pandemic for a year, this country would be dealing with it for four more straight years because Trump will fuck everything up like he did during his fourth year as President in response to the pandemic, such as him disbanding the Directorate of Global Health Security & Biodefense. He would've gotten rid of Obama's Pandemic response team, we would have less to no vaccines, etc., & we would be having a lot more than something like 30K+ deaths, or more than 475K+ deaths from COVID that we're already experiencing right now. We would possibly be having millions.

Now that's a very, terrifying thought. Not only that, Trump would've turned America upside down just like he did from 2017 to early 2021, except a lot worse.
I've thought about this a bit. I think it's possible Hillary would have done drastically better in her response (say we "only" had 100k deaths at this point) and she would have been blamed more so than Trump has been.

I'm not sure if Trump runs in 2020 if he loses 2016. I think his cult gets a makeover in the preceding years and we see someone else take up his mantle for the Republicans.
 

Moppeh

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,538
What makes you so sure Trump would've run in 2020 if he lost in 2016?

If Hillary did win, it would have been close in the Rust Belt. Trump would have another four years after winning over a huge portion of GOP voters to boost his ego and spread his message. Even before the pandemic, I don't think Hillary would have been a well-liked president.

I think the one thing being discounted is how the GOP would have operated if Trump lost. If he lost the first time, there was no way they would have let him win again.
 
OP
OP
SpaceCrystal

SpaceCrystal

Banned
Apr 1, 2019
7,714
What makes you so sure Trump would've run in 2020 if he lost in 2016?

Because Trump would be on the media telling everyone on how he got cheated out on the election, would be gaslighting & spreading conspiracy theories & every single MAGA Trump cultist would be believing his every word, getting them riled up more than ever before to get out there & vote.
 

Musubi

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
23,611
I don't think Trump would have ran again. Honestly don't think he wanted to win in the first place he just wanted the attention and publicity.
 

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
Trump would have died without the special 5 star health treatment if he caught COVID.
 

Keldroc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,982
Hillary would have had the pandemic handled by the time of the election. No vaccine of course, but it would be under control thanks to saner measures and the lack of political divide over basic hygiene practices. Were Trump to win (he wouldn't run again after losing, but for the sake of the hypothetical let's say he did), a slip in handling would be noticeable and responded to sharply. The difference would be stark, and Trump would be humiliated until he got shit together.

A Trump who loses in 2016 and wins in 2020 doesn't have the MAGA cult whipped into a frenzy due to four years in the bully pulpit, QAnon isn't a thing, and he hasn't been able to turn masks and basic precautions into an issue of "freedom." Your error is using the existing 2020 Trump to stand in for the hypothetical 2020 Trump. The situations simply wouldn't be comparable.
 

Midramble

Force of Habit
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
10,457
San Francisco
Normally presidents get a bump during an national emergency. Hillary would have gotten that and been reelected for 4 more. Trump just really really fucked up the pandemic. Historically fucked it up.
 

jroc74

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,992
What makes you think there would've been a pandemic at all? It happened because the pandemic response team was gutted, we alienated ourselves from the WHO, and I'm pretty sure there was a joint US-Chinese group of scientists based in China that was also shut down by the Trump Admin in 2018 or 2019.
Exactly.

I'm extremely confident Hillary would have handled the Covid response.....waaaaaaaaaay.....better than Trump.
 

Ducarmel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,363
I don't see how honestly. I imagine her administrations response to covid would be 1000 times better.

Also I believe her administration would have something to say about social media allowing uncheck conspiracies going rampant.
 

Moppeh

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,538
Hillary would have had the pandemic handled by the time of the election. No vaccine of course, but it would be under control thanks to saner measures and the lack of political divide over basic hygiene practices. Were Trump to win (he wouldn't run again after losing, but for the sake of the hypothetical let's say he did), a slip in handling would be noticeable and responded to sharply. The difference would be stark, and Trump would be humiliated until he got shit together.

A Trump who loses in 2016 and wins in 2020 doesn't have the MAGA cult whipped into a frenzy due to four years in the bully pulpit, QAnon isn't a thing, and he hasn't been able to turn masks and basic precautions into an issue of "freedom." Your error is using the existing 2020 Trump to stand in for the hypothetical 2020 Trump. The situations simply wouldn't be comparable.

America would have been divided by the pandemic whether Trump was president or not.
 

Shoeless

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,985
On the other hand, it would be interesting to see whether the Republicans would have stonewalled two more SC Justices coming in, and kept those positions empty, gambling on a Republican winning in 2020, or would they finally have allowed some appointments. Kavanaugh and Barrett came in in the last four years, but under Hillary it would have been two liberal picks if the Republicans didn't stonewall.
 

Deleted member 5359

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,326
The real nightmare question is is "what if Trump had handled the pandemic well?" He would have won re-election in a landslide because the USA would have been thriving. We would have accepted an unchecked authoritarian in exchange for saving the lives of hundreds of thousands of people.
 

JaseC64

Enlightened
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,008
Strong Island NY
Hillary would have been gridlocked like Obama and chances she wouldn't have been able to put liberal justices but some "centrists" at best.

Trump got away because Mitch was there to do his bidding.

Mitch was the key to all of this. With him around, nothing really changes.
 

Min

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,068
Well we have 2 years before we're screwed by redistricting and Republicans gain control of the house through gerrymandering.
 

Metto

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,108
America would have been divided by the pandemic whether Trump was president or not.
Part of the reason for the insane polarization is because of Trump and by the time the Pandemic was something to be concerned about the topic was already incredibly divided.

One example that Clinton would've handled the Pandemic better is that she would've acknowledged it as a major potential crisis probably as far back as December compared to Trump denying its existence all the way up to March
 

GamerJM

Member
Nov 8, 2017
15,615
He would have died from COVID on the campaign trail


or the bleach he would have injected

I wonder how Pence would have done if this happened. He'd have to run, right? This would have been completely unprecedented. He'd basically have been a martyr that the Repubs would have come out in droves for. Or alternatively he flops because of lack of charisma.
 

Loud Wrong

Member
Feb 24, 2020
13,895
Any first term president who handled the pandemic competently would be easily re-elected. Including Trump. He fucked up an easy win.
 

hurlex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,143
Ehh. There is a rally around the flag effect. Even with Republicans trying to sabotage her, I think it wouldn't have been enough. Economy would still have been doing well too.
 

Richiek

Member
Nov 2, 2017
12,063
America would have been divided by the pandemic whether Trump was president or not.

Disagree. The majority of Americans rallied around George W Bush after 9/11 and only turned on him when he royally fucked up the War on Terror and the economy. Clinton would have gotten a similar bump at the start of the COVID pandemic.
 

Ogodei

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,256
Coruscant
Clinton 2016 would've gone down this way:

2018 Midterms - GOP wins PA-MI-WI-WV-MT-MN, holds NV and AZ, in addition to the three states they won. Have 61 Senate Seats.

2020 - Tom Cotton runs and wins on anti-China fervor.

That's how that alt reality goes.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,317
People suggesting there wouldn't be a pandemic at all if Hillary had won... come on, guys. Yes, the Trump administration fucked it up at catastrophic levels, but almost NO country escaped the pandemic (and those that did are pretty much all islands). There is zero way a large landlocked country with 300 million people escapes it. It's just that the death toll would be drastically lower.

But remember, bitch eating crackers and all. Hillary had a lot of people who just outrighted hated her no matter what she did. Even if you had, say, 1/10th of the death toll, I do think Hillary would absolutely have been blamed for every single one no matter what efforts she would have taken to mitigate the disaster.

The biggest flaw in the OP's premise is assuming Trump ran again in 2020 after losing 2016. I think that would be unlikely, frankly. Yes, the Trump cult started before he was elected, but it was definitely amplified by him actually winning. Nobody likes losers.

Honestly these alternate timelines/what-ifs are so full of variables that it's impossible to predict what would happen, but I don't think the OP's version of events is a realistic scenario.
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,700
There's no reason to believe Trump would have run again in 2020 if he had lost. All indications were that he didn't even want to win the first place, so I don't think this what if scenario makes much sense
 

Roliq

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Sep 23, 2018
6,181
America would have been divided by the pandemic whether Trump was president or not.
The only reason a divide was there is that a group is not only insistent on "owning the libs" that they would gladly kill themselves if someone told them everything it's a "lib hoax"
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,510
Who knows if covid even forms together as a virus in this timeline? Butterfly effect and stuff.
 

Deleted member 4353

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,559
Someone said this inauguration day and it was a scary thought. Clinton would have been hammered especially with a republican senate and not be able to do anything.
 

Toth

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,996
I think Trump probably would have contracted COVID and died before the 2020 election.
 

Deleted member 21709

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
23,310
This is fucking preposterous. She would have handled COVID-19 so much better, and hundreds of thousands (!!!) of lives would have been saved.

Sorry but wtf. How are people still on this 'Hillary bad' train..
 

Deleted member 3017

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,653
I think the mistake is thinking Private Citizen Trump in 2020 would have the rabid following President Trump in 2020 had. I don't 2020 Private Citizen Trump would have nearly the shot of winning that he enjoyed in 2016, for a number of reasons.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,317
This is fucking preposterous. She would have handled COVID-19 so much better, and hundreds of thousands (!!!) of lives would have been saved.

Sorry but wtf. How are people still on this 'Hillary bad' train..
Look I think the OP is wrong, but that's not what they are saying at all.
 

Lord Azrael

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,976
Because Trump would be on the media telling everyone on how he got cheated out on the election, would be gaslighting & spreading conspiracy theories & every single MAGA Trump cultist would be believing his every word, getting them riled up more than ever before to get out there & vote.
Trump was mostly running as a fuck you to Obama. Even he didn't expect to win. He probably would've pivoted into something else.
 

Neece

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,199
The 2020 conspiracy in this alternate reality would have been that covid was a false flag pandemic, created in a lab in conjuction with China for Hilary to stay in power with a rally around the flag effect, ala 9.11 truther, and control the population with masks. Half of the country would have believed it too.
 

Moppeh

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,538
Disagree. The majority of Americans rallied around George W Bush after 9/11 and only turned on him when he royally fucked up the War on Terror and the economy. Clinton would have gotten a similar bump at the start of the COVID pandemic.

I think it is a lot easier to get Americans to unite to kill Arabs than it it is for them to unite to believe scientists.
 

Azriell

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,109
Without the POTUS politicizing masks after months of trying to minimize Covid, we certainly would have had far fewer deaths. Imagine a unified message of "do your part" and "wearing masks is patriotic because it's good for America."

But I don't think you earn political points for handling Covid well. Not when many countries did a phenomenal job. If anything it probably would still have cost her points for having to do a shutdown, which R's would pounce all over along with however many deaths there were. Never forget Benghazi.

I don't know what happens in alternate 2020, but this timeline it's undeniable that Trump was the motivator that earned us control of all three positions. I mean he flipped GA.