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Balmik

Member
May 12, 2019
16
Does this kind of message ever help? It doesn't fix anything or give any new information. I doubt this kinda of letter is going to change anyone's mind. At best it does nothing at worst it renews people energy to complain about it more. I feel like it would of been better for them to stay quiet if they weren't going to change it.
 

Morisaki

Member
Oct 29, 2017
177
Sometime one just has make to a difficult decision and stick with it, regardless of fan expectations. Scalability of Pokemon in the future is definitely a hard problem to solve. We'll see in due course if this is good or bad decision. This will be interesting.
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,026
Why? Does anyone actually know here? We know there are multiple owners of the IP and they must see *some* amount of money, but has anyone actually nailed down a figure of how much Game Freak is making? I think it's highly unlikely their executives are just cackling all the way to the bank and fattening their personal accounts rather than investing any of that money back in the company. The fact that they are so small and continue to struggle with new projects is exactly what leads me to believe they may not be seeing as much of the Pokémon cash as a lot of the community thinks they are.
Because they are partial owners and the quality of the games is an important part of the IP, so even if they are a little tight on cash the the rest of the parties involved should also be contributing to the budget, especially TPC and Nintendo.
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
Because they are partial owners and the quality of the games is an important part of the IP, so even if they are a little tight on cash the the rest of the parties involved should also be contributing to the budget, especially TPC and Nintendo.

Honestly, this whole thing has blown up to become an indictment on Game Freak's technical abilities and has a whole slew of people commenting on how they have never been competent or produced quality work, but they were forgiven since they managed to include all the Pokémon, which is why this is the thing that is supposedly breaking the camel's back.

Assuming they've been struggling this whole time, what incentive would Nintendo and The Pokémon Company have to funnel more money into them if their games have sold so well up until now despite quality concerns by certain parts of the fan base? They are already seeing increased risks as their handheld platforms continue to sell fewer units.
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,093
multiple owners of the IP and they must see *some* amount of money, but has anyone actually nailed down a figure of how much Game Freak is making?
AFAIK they own 1/3rd of the IP. So, if correct, they are making 1/3rd of the profits of the IP. Not just the games. Everything. Because they own 1/3rd of the IP as a whole.
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,026
Honestly, this whole thing has blown up to become an indictment on Game Freak's technical abilities and has a whole slew of people commenting on how they have never been competent or produced quality work, but they were forgiven since they managed to include all the Pokémon, which is why this is the thing that is supposedly breaking the camel's back.

Assuming they've been struggling this whole time, what incentive would Nintendo and The Pokémon Company have to funnel more money into them if their games have sold so well up until now despite quality concerns by certain parts of the fan base? They are already seeing increased risks as their handheld platforms continue to sell fewer units.
Game Freak is not a starving indie studio and Nintendo is not a company known for fucking developers over.
 

Yiazmat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
349
Making Pokémon giant wouldn't work with the X/Y models. Game development doesn't work like that.
Except they're not. You can't just resize the model and call it a day, you have to redo the skeleton and how the model works.

Dynamax Arcanine:

21minutesofpokemonswo2gjx4.jpg


Pokemon X/Y Arcanine:

arcanine3y2j7j.png


So you're telling me that they remade this model from scratch, and yet it looks exactly the same as the 3DS one from 6 years ago? (apart from the texture resolution)

Jesus Christ.
 

Psychonaut

Member
Jan 11, 2018
3,207
I don't know how you get that from my post, I just simply stated that most people don't bother with completing the full dex and that cutting probably the least utilized Pokémon hardly seems like something hardly worth throwing tantrums over
This is still my point though. A lot of people don't battle competitively, so perhaps they should just scrap that entire mechanic as well? It's all part of the Pokemon package. Breeding, training, battling, collecting, adventure, etc. all make the game greater than the sum of its parts. Losing any of it is a detriment to the overall experience for most players. Why is collecting the one that has been cut off at the knees?

I have literally never had any desire to have a competitive Pokemon battle in my life, and I've been playing since I was three years old. That doesn't mean I have to demand they remove the feature or excuse it if that were to ever come to pass.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,734
Man this thread is so wild lol. It went about as I expected. People are too easily clamouring about "harassment concerns", when in reality, they want all negative dialogue to be silenced and for Pokemon threads to be a circlejerk of ignorant positivity. When people are complaining about a hashtag referring to why GF shouldn't remove the National Dex, and calling that harassment, that's when you know they're being disingenuous.
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
Game Theory: Should Junichi Masuda step down?

He kind of did, though, as a director.

Man this thread is so wild lol. It went about as I expected. People are too easily clamouring about "harassment concerns", when in reality, they want all negative dialogue to be silenced and for Pokemon threads to be a circlejerk of ignorant positivity. When people are complaining about a hashtag referring to why GF shouldn't remove the National Dex, and calling that harassment, that's when you know they're being disingenuous.

Sucks how poor lots of people are are reading any kind of nuance. It's not that using the hashtag itself constitutes harassment, it's that a lot of people using it are doing some nasty harassment.
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,026
so why is this whole thing a big controversy???
Because every new Pokemon game has had every Pokemon up to that point in it and for years they have said that they cared about our Pokemon and even monetized that with Bank. They came out and announced Home before E3 and talked about it like it was going to do the same thing as Bank and then at E3 during the Treehouse they snuck this detail in. Every time they've talked about this they've only made it worse, going as far as to lie about things like remodeling all of the Pokemon from scratch when in actuality they are using the same models and animations.
They are removing a basic feature of the series that we have been conditioned into expecting.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,734
so why is this whole thing a big controversy???

Because this limits what Pokemon you can transfer over, and considering that Game Freak is coming out with another app to facilitate transfers, this means that if you have a living dex or you have incompatible Pokemon, that they will be stuck in limbo until another game allows that Pokemon to be used.

To clarify the nonsense arguments: no one cares about catching all 800+ Pokemon in the game, but it was nice to have the freedom to transfer over what you wanted and then use that Pokemon whether it'd be for side content like Amie/Refresh, Contests, whatever, or in competitive battling.
 

Scorbunny

Member
Jun 14, 2019
122
They haven't even stated if home costs anything yet. What if its a free cloud storage up to a certain amount of data and then you pay up for more data if you need it, I think google does this with drive. Or if it's a one time fee and you get to keep it. Altough if it needs nintendo online you have to pay 20 a year to access it, but you can use home in your phone, so isn't it more likely to be free or a one time fee? (Or god forbid have micro transactions)
 

Neiteio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,127
I swear if Carbink is not in this game, I will eat the next person who posts in this thread
 

Orbit

Banned
Nov 21, 2018
1,328
Because every new Pokemon game has had every Pokemon up to that point in it and for years they have said that they cared about our Pokemon and even monetized that with Bank. They came out and announced Home before E3 and talked about it like it was going to do the same thing as Bank and then at E3 during the Treehouse they snuck this detail in. Every time they've talked about this they've only made it worse, going as far as to lie about things like remodeling all of the Pokemon from scratch when in actuality they are using the same models and animations.
They are removing a basic feature of the series that we have been conditioned into expecting.
Because this limits what Pokemon you can transfer over, and considering that Game Freak is coming out with another app to facilitate transfers, this means that if you have a living dex or you have incompatible Pokemon, that they will be stuck in limbo until another game allows that Pokemon to be used.

To clarify the nonsense arguments: no one cares about catching all 800+ Pokemon in the game, but it was nice to have the freedom to transfer over what you wanted and then use that Pokemon whether it'd be for side content like Amie/Refresh, Contests, whatever, or in competitive battling.

i see i see. thank you for the clarifying replies! i have not been involved with pokemon since emrald due to my lack of nintendo consoles over the years (love my switch now).
 

ferroseed168

Member
Aug 8, 2018
685
Thank you for your clarity Masuda and Game Freak. I appreciate them being upfront with us about this as it gives fans like me the time and clarity to work to make sure this game does not succeed. I don't speak for every Pokemon fan of course, but this was and is the last straw for me with Gamefreak and their treatment of this series and is a complete dealbreaker. Till release, I will be doing my best - online and in real life - to convince people to not buy this game
 

Mgs2master2

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,861
some tweets are hilarious and straight to the point on this. (this is how i figured it out btw)



 

Cronogear

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,978
so why is this whole thing a big controversy???

Fans are upset that:
- For the first time, you can no longer bring in all of your older Pokemon from previous Pokemon games into this new game. Only Pokemon that are catchable in this game can be transferred into it. Basically, they're preventing hundreds of Pokemon from being usable in this game.
- The visuals and animations that Game Freak claimed the freed up resources were going towards are showing little improvement.
 

Neiteio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,127
Thank you for your clarity Masuda and Game Freak. I appreciate them being upfront with us about this as it gives fans like me the time and clarity to work to make sure this game does not succeed. I don't speak for every Pokemon fan of course, but this was and is the last straw for me with Gamefreak and their treatment of this series and is a complete dealbreaker. Till release, I will be doing my best - online and in real life - to convince people to not buy this game
You just convinced me to buy 100 copies
 

Neiteio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,127
But seriously, tho, if they're gonna do this, I'd rather they just pull a Black/White and give us 150 new Pokemon.
 

CatDoggo

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
775
Thank you for your clarity Masuda and Game Freak. I appreciate them being upfront with us about this as it gives fans like me the time and clarity to work to make sure this game does not succeed. I don't speak for every Pokemon fan of course, but this was and is the last straw for me with Gamefreak and their treatment of this series and is a complete dealbreaker. Till release, I will be doing my best - online and in real life - to convince people to not buy this game

It's kinda funny that this is pretty much what's happened with me. After explaining all of this to three of my Pokemon playing siblings, one of their girlfriends, and two of their regular friends, they are no longer getting the new games anymore. I'm pretty much known as the big Pokemon nerd to them who never misses out on anything Pokemon related and so if it's got my riled up enough to not want to buy the games, they know there was a serious fuck up somewhere. LOL
 

Pekola

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,507
A note on harassment:

A large part of what makes things harassment is that it is uninvited. Which means that if you engage someone and continue to engage them, when it's clearly unwanted, then it's harassment.

Now, the thing I want to focus on specifically in this case is the contacting of Masuda through social media. I want to focus on two things:

1) It is against twitter TOS to abuse the reply system to spam an account. That can be considered targeted harassment and can be actionable (Yeah, a big surprise that Twitter actually has rules!)

2) There are times when direct action is necessary, even when it's messy. Protests live or die by how much they can disrupt. But this is a game. It's not...really a big deal.

Don't be that person who resorts to harassing an individual because a game didn't do what you wanted it to. Go write a comment on the Pokémon YouTube. Dislike their videos. Make silly memes about Dexit. Tweet to the Pokémon twitter. Whatever.

But don't harass people. And definitely DON'T justify harassment just because it's "not serious". Specially not on ERA.
 

Chrono

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,055
I have the game pre-ordered, but honestly with my current backlog of titles, I'm debating just cancelling and waiting for the "enhanced" third version when/if all of the Pokemon are included. This is ridiculous, and the same old battle animations are becoming really tiresome.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,734
"I'd like to make one thing clear: even if a specific Pokémon is not available in Pokémon Sword and Pokémon Shield, that does not mean it will not appear in future games."

This is probably the most tone-deaf thing that Masuda has ever written. No one cares about specific Pokemon that aren't in SS that may come back in future games, it's the fact that now it's completely random. People like multiple Pokemon so if their favourites are in Sword and Shield, who's to say that maybe their favourites get splintered off and only some return in the next game? LIke this is so poorly thought out from top to bottom.

To those of you that are optimistic that things can still change. Let's not forget that the Battle Frontier being relegated to being a tease in ORAS caused less controversy than this, and GF STILL never added extensive post-game content to their games after that. Wishing for a patch to solve all of Sword and Shield's problems is hopeless optimism.
 

ferroseed168

Member
Aug 8, 2018
685
I have the game pre-ordered, but honestly with my current backlog of titles, I'm debating just cancelling and waiting for the "enhanced" third version when/if all of the Pokemon are included. This is ridiculous, and the same old battle animations are becoming really tiresome.
This is how I feel too, except I never pre-ordered it. Even if you're like me and only own a Switch, there are still many more deserving games this year to spend your money on. It's an even less appealing prospect if you own multiple consoles
 
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Cromat

Member
Mar 17, 2019
677
Why would anyone preorder this? It's still possible that this game has less pokemon compatible with it than Ruby and Sapphire, released 17 years ago. It's almost certainly going to have less pokemon than Pokemon Go... Save your money until impressions come in. This game better be amazing to make up for this crap.
 

ferroseed168

Member
Aug 8, 2018
685
It's kinda funny that this is pretty much what's happened with me. After explaining all of this to three of my Pokemon playing siblings, one of their girlfriends, and two of their regular friends, they are no longer getting the new games anymore. I'm pretty much known as the big Pokemon nerd to them who never misses out on anything Pokemon related and so if it's got my riled up enough to not want to buy the games, they know there was a serious fuck up somewhere. LOL
I think people underestimate what word of mouth can do to a game like this which primarily has a younger audience. Let's Go had a tepid word of mouth and from what I could tell, they sold much below expectation. So much so that by the March financial report, Nintendo had only shipped around 600,000 more copies in addition to the 10 million stock retailers were still going through. The Let's Go games have practically shown no legs of any kind in sales, which is a real problem for an evergreen title like Pokemon. 10 million seems to be the lower baseline for Pokemon games, but I think Nintendo wants Sword and Shield to sell 15 million or more, and anything less than that could be a real problem for their financials
 

ferroseed168

Member
Aug 8, 2018
685
Why would anyone preorder this? It's still possible that this game has less pokemon compatible with it than Ruby and Sapphire, released 17 years ago. It's almost certainly going to have less pokemon than Pokemon Go... Save your money until impressions come in. This game better be amazing to make up for this crap.
Sun and Moon had 300 pokemon in it's Pokedex, which Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon bumped up to 400. Given Sword and Shield are the first games of the generation for Pokemon, I expect the pokedex to be between 300 and 400. This is just my guess of course, but we're talking about a company here that programmed the Island Scan pokemon into Sun and Moon - they were catchable natively in Alola - but did not add the Island Scan pokemon into the Pokedex.
 

Psychonaut

Member
Jan 11, 2018
3,207
They haven't even stated if home costs anything yet. What if its a free cloud storage up to a certain amount of data and then you pay up for more data if you need it, I think google does this with drive. Or if it's a one time fee and you get to keep it. Altough if it needs nintendo online you have to pay 20 a year to access it, but you can use home in your phone, so isn't it more likely to be free or a one time fee? (Or god forbid have micro transactions)
That would be great! If they would just come out and say that, then this whole thing would probably blow over pretty quickly! Two issues though...
  1. The fact that they HAVEN'T come out and said this to quell the controversy is a pretty good sign that this won't be the case;
  2. They are leaving money on the table if they don't charge for it out of the gate. Nothing about Game Freak or The Pokemon Company suggests that they would give us Home for free out of the goodness of their hearts.
 

PaperSparrow

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,020
A note on harassment:

A large part of what makes things harassment is that it is uninvited. Which means that if you engage someone and continue to engage them, when it's clearly unwanted, then it's harassment.

Now, the thing I want to focus on specifically in this case is the contacting of Masuda through social media. I want to focus on two things:

1) It is against twitter TOS to abuse the reply system to spam an account. That can be considered targeted harassment and can be actionable (Yeah, a big surprise that Twitter actually has rules!)

2) There are times when direct action is necessary, even when it's messy. Protests live or die by how much they can disrupt. But this is a game. It's not...really a big deal.

Don't be that person who resorts to harassing an individual because a game didn't do what you wanted it to. Go write a comment on the Pokémon YouTube. Dislike their videos. Make silly memes about Dexit. Tweet to the Pokémon twitter. Whatever.

But don't harass people. And definitely DON'T justify harassment just because it's "not serious". Specially not on ERA.
Considering the "serious" in quotes, I assume this is partially directed at me. I am not a fan of people trying to equate #BringBackTheNationalDex with targeted harassment. That means someone is directing violence at a person to intimidate them.

No one "invites" or "wants" a protest. How do you expect people to make their voices known to the one of the people in charge of Game Freak if he doesn't "want" to hear it.
 
May 9, 2019
850
Well can they start revamping Pokemon? I would like for my favorites to be viable in competitive play. Start reworking abilities that have no consistent use and start fixing stats.
 

Deleted member 9714

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,882
User banned (1 week): inflammatory rhetoric, encouraging intimidation off from social media
A note on harassment:

A large part of what makes things harassment is that it is uninvited. Which means that if you engage someone and continue to engage them, when it's clearly unwanted, then it's harassment.

Now, the thing I want to focus on specifically in this case is the contacting of Masuda through social media. I want to focus on two things:

1) It is against twitter TOS to abuse the reply system to spam an account. That can be considered targeted harassment and can be actionable (Yeah, a big surprise that Twitter actually has rules!)

2) There are times when direct action is necessary, even when it's messy. Protests live or die by how much they can disrupt. But this is a game. It's not...really a big deal.

Don't be that person who resorts to harassing an individual because a game didn't do what you wanted it to. Go write a comment on the Pokémon YouTube. Dislike their videos. Make silly memes about Dexit. Tweet to the Pokémon twitter. Whatever.

But don't harass people. And definitely DON'T justify harassment just because it's "not serious". Specially not on ERA.
Tweeting Masuda on Twitter isn't harassment, lol. Masuda can put his Twitter on protected if he doesn't want people contacting him. It's not like it's a personal account - he advertises himself as a member of GameFreak on it. He invites every message he gets with all the boneheaded things he says. I hope he remains afraid to go on Twitter for as long as this bullshit goes on. Fans aren't going to let him spout whatever he wants anymore after taking a giant dump on fans.
 

Cromat

Member
Mar 17, 2019
677
Sun and Moon had 300 pokemon in it's Pokedex, which Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon bumped up to 400. Given Sword and Shield are the first games of the generation for Pokemon, I expect the pokedex to be between 300 and 400. This is just my guess of course, but we're talking about a company here that programmed the Island Scan pokemon into Sun and Moon - they were catchable natively in Alola - but did not add the Island Scan pokemon into the Pokedex.

The odds of the game being compatible with the Diamond/Pearl total (493) is very slim. It'll probably end up a bit over Ruby/Sapphire, yay!

What a joke
 
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