A German Netflix Original Series: Dark Season 3 |OT| Every decision for something, is a decision against something else. (no open spoilers)

[Huncho_Houdini]

This is a weak excuse, POC exist everywhere and not having any in your fairly large budget netflix tv show is bad. Also, it's not even accurate. The power plant employs 500 people. Winden has a school, a hospital, a mental health facility, a nursing home, a nuclear power plant, it's own (not small) police force.

imo, there's also a really questionable approach to the portrayal of trans people and of disability.

Click to shrink...

There were a few background characters of color in the school. Yaseen and his mother are middle eastern.

However I will also echo, small Middle of nowhere towns in Germany are unlikely to be diverse, especially when looking in the 80s and earlier. I don't think this portrayal was unrealistic. For obvious reasons none of the families could be drastically different in terms of skin color.


Edit: To expand upon this, I am all for positive representation in media for POC. In this show though I don't see how the story really shakes out if one of the main characters is obviously a POC, considering the story relies on appearance to heavy extent. You could always through some random background character in, which would be fine, but that's not really any time of "representation" that I would be looking for to be honest, would be pretty irrelevant to me.

 

[Kaminogi]

This is a weak excuse, POC exist everywhere and not having any in your fairly large budget netflix tv show is bad. Also, it's not even accurate. The power plant employs 500 people. Winden has a school, a hospital, a mental health facility, a nursing home, a nuclear power plant, it's own (not small) police force.

imo, there's also a really questionable approach to the portrayal of trans people and of disability.

Click to shrink...

They are not everywhere, I'm sorry. It's just not true. Germany has a different kind of immigration if compared to Italy or France. Even in Italy there are several villages with no people of color at all. And Winden is not Berlin neither Munich. So it's normal if there aren't persons of color in the series and it's not a problem. And there's that thing called time travel in the series if you didn't notice which complicates everything.

Also, I've been living in Tokyo for almost a year now (Tokyo, not Winden) and it's so RARE to catch the sight of persons of color. Like really really rare.

So, no, you're dead wrong.

Let's fight for the real rights, not for Dark.

 

[Dr.Phibes]

This is a weak excuse, POC exist everywhere and not having any in your fairly large budget netflix tv show is bad. Also, it's not even accurate. The power plant employs 500 people. Winden has a school, a hospital, a mental health facility, a nursing home, a nuclear power plant, it's own (not small) police force.

imo, there's also a really questionable approach to the portrayal of trans people and of disability.

Click to shrink...

Winden is referred to as a small town throughout the series, so I'd say the population is closer to 10k.
And as you mentioned (which I mentioned earlier in this thread as well), having all these facilities doesn't make sense for a small village. Especially the police part.

 

[That Guy]

This is a weak excuse, POC exist everywhere and not having any in your fairly large budget netflix tv show is bad. Also, it's not even accurate. The power plant employs 500 people. Winden has a school, a hospital, a mental health facility, a nursing home, a nuclear power plant, it's own (not small) police force.

imo, there's also a really questionable approach to the portrayal of trans people and of disability.

Click to shrink...

As much as I applaud POC representation in media when it is done right, shoehorning it into a show where the setting is a small German town in the middle of nowhere with characters needing to appear in various eras going back to the 1800s when having POC was even less common doesn't seem like the way to go.

 

[Dr.Phibes]

They are not everywhere, I'm sorry. It's just not true. Germany has a different kind of immigration if compared to Italy or France. Even in Italy there are several villages with no people of color at all. And Winden is not Berlin neither Munich. So it's normal if there aren't persons of color in the series and it's not a problem. And there's that thing called time travel in the series if you didn't notice which complicates everything.

Also, I've been living in Tokyo for almost a year now (Tokyo, not Winden) and it's so RARE to catch the sight of persons of color. Like really really rare.

So, no, you're dead wrong.

Let's fight for the real rights, not for Dark.

Click to shrink...

I live in in the middle of nowhere (SH, at the Danish border) and we definitely have POC in smaller villages. And I kinda doubt that the makeup of villages and small towns in Hesse is all that different. The time travel aspect is a non-argument since there's enough characters in modern-day Winden that aren't part of the time travel affected families.

 

[Viriditas]

Fair warning, I am not trans, and I hope we get to hear from some TransEra fans of the show in this thread. Although it's not their job to spoon-feed us Spotting Transphobia 101 or act as Media Arbiters for Cisfolk -- just saying it'd be great to have input on this topic that doesn't come from a Cis perspective (apologies if transfolk have already spoken up here and I'm just ignorant about it).

Spoiler: Regarding Benni (CW: Cis perspective on a trans topic.)

I was initially disappointed with the show's handling of Benni and her relationship with Peter, but I think the last scene has an important inclusion. Doesn't make it an amazing pro-trans portrayal, but I think it at least mitigates what would otherwise just be some damned lazy transphobia:

Benni isn't part of the knot. She exists in the original world. She's not a "glitch in the Matrix."

In the looping timelines we see for most of the series, shit is fucked for everybody. Broken families, missing children, murders, etc. When I first watched Dark I was bummed that the only transperson we see depicted in this universe (AFAIK), is the trope of the transwoman prostitute. I don't think it was a galaxy-brain decision and I'd like to know if they had input from any actual transpersons before or after those scenes.

In context with the final scene, though, a somewhat different message comes across. I think the Fucked timelines portray that sex work is often what transfolk must resort to in order to survive in the face of absolutely overwhelming fuckery beyond their power to escape or change. At the conclusion, I think we're supposed to come to peace with all the horrible things that happened to and were done by our beloved characters -- we're supposed to recognize that they were stuck, and the real brutality was the system they were stuck in.

When we're shown the dinner party at the end, we're at least initially meant to think that it's happening in the "best" timeline, in Paradise -- and in Paradise, there is Benni, loved and welcomed, happy and healthy, with Peter.

What I get from this is that Peter being with Charlotte was the mistake, not Benni. It wasn't actually a shitty side story of a trans sex worker who broke up an otherwise happy marriage/family. It was that Peter and Benni were meant to be together, and it was Charlotte who was the glitch in the Matrix that was the source of their mutual suffering.

Now whether that was indeed "Paradise," or the "best" timeline, or if there arguably even is anything such as a good vs bad timeline or if they're all just various loops impinging on one another...I think the show leaves that ambiguous. But I don't think it was ambiguous about whether Benni deserves family, friends, and love.

 

[Viriditas]

Also regarding some of the scientific concepts referenced in the show, I thought this was helpful:

 

[Steak]

Fair warning, I am not trans, and I hope we get to hear from some TransEra fans of the show in this thread. Although it's not their job to spoon-feed us Spotting Transphobia 101 or act as Media Arbiters for Cisfolk -- just saying it'd be great to have input on this topic that doesn't come from a Cis perspective (apologies if transfolk have already spoken up here and I'm just ignorant about it).

Spoiler: Regarding Benni (CW: Cis perspective on a trans topic.)

I was initially disappointed with the show's handling of Benni and her relationship with Peter, but I think the last scene has an important inclusion. Doesn't make it an amazing pro-trans portrayal, but I think it at least mitigates what would otherwise just be some damned lazy transphobia:

Benni isn't part of the knot. She exists in the original world. She's not a "glitch in the Matrix."

In the looping timelines we see for most of the series, shit is fucked for everybody. Broken families, missing children, murders, etc. When I first watched Dark I was bummed that the only transperson we see depicted in this universe (AFAIK), is the trope of the transwoman prostitute. I don't think it was a galaxy-brain decision and I'd like to know if they had input from any actual transpersons before or after those scenes.

In context with the final scene, though, a somewhat different message comes across. I think the Fucked timelines portray that sex work is often what transfolk must resort to in order to survive in the face of absolutely overwhelming fuckery beyond their power to escape or change. At the conclusion, I think we're supposed to come to peace with all the horrible things that happened to and were done by our beloved characters -- we're supposed to recognize that they were stuck, and the real brutality was the system they were stuck in.

When we're shown the dinner party at the end, we're at least initially meant to think that it's happening in the "best" timeline, in Paradise -- and in Paradise, there is Benni, loved and welcomed, happy and healthy, with Peter.

What I get from this is that Peter being with Charlotte was the mistake, not Benni. It wasn't actually a shitty side story of a trans sex worker who broke up an otherwise happy marriage/family. It was that Peter and Benni were meant to be together, and it was Charlotte who was the glitch in the Matrix that was the source of their mutual suffering.

Now whether that was indeed "Paradise," or the "best" timeline, or if there arguably even is anything such as a good vs bad timeline or if they're all just various loops impinging on one another...I think the show leaves that ambiguous. But I don't think it was ambiguous about whether Benni deserves family, friends, and love.

Click to shrink...

I'm trans and i thought your take was interesting and probably what the showrunners were aiming for.

Spoiler

But: having benni played by a cis man sucks. the major plotline she has rests on extremely tired tropes and i don't think resolving it in the epilogue is really enough makes that better. ESPECIALLY when in season three we get a single scene where it's a novelty that in the other universe she still presents masculinely. that scene made my eyes roll out of my head. like in the mirror universe she exists only for that "shock value" or whatever they were going for there.

like until that point i would have described it as a problematic but not unsympathetic portrayal but that fucked me right off.

 

[mantidor]

Just kinda realized there's not a single person of color huh

Click to shrink...

Showrunners have address this.

Spoiler: whole show

Eventually you realize most characters are connected in a incesty, bizarre genealogy tree. Part of the appeal of the show is to figure out who is related to who, and towards the end who is in the knot and who isn't. any obvious ancestry would have ruined the narrative. Specially in old time periods like the 1800s.

I did find a neat detail all the little nodes to all the inbreeding planted throughout, with deafness, birth marks, cleft palate, and even Claudia's heterochromia, even though that one was a red herring (she is not part of the loop).

 

[FliX]

So overall I really enjoyed the whole show. One thing I don't really get though

Spoiler: Spoiler

whats the deal with the child abuse; eg that machine that fries. the kids eyes and overall that whole kids room dungeon?

I cannot really put it into context of everything else that happened. What did I miss or what have I forgotten from the past seasons?

 

[davepoobond]

So overall I really enjoyed the whole show. One thing I don't really get though

Spoiler: Spoiler

whats the deal with the child abuse; eg that machine that fries. the kids eyes and overall that whole kids room dungeon?

I cannot really put it into context of everything else that happened. What did I miss or what have I forgotten from the past seasons?

Click to shrink...

Spoiler

isn't it time machine tests or whatever?

 

[Odesu]

As someone who grew up in a small village of 3000 in 90's germany its kind of hilarious reading all these takes about why it just wouldnt make sense for POC to be part of the show when much of it takes place in 2019/2020.

Its absolutely normal to have POCs even in smallest villages. I had friends from Sri Lanka, South America and Turkey ever since first grade in my tiny village alone. Theres been a huge immigrant Community ever since the 60s. Framing it as unrealistic for Non-white people to be in a show about a rather big German town in 2020 is more than a little silly.

 

[crazillo]

Of course Germany has POC even in small towns. And it's good the writers addressed this question, as quoted above. But Dark is very much about who marries whom, who betrayed whom with an affair, who is who's true parents in that web of lies etc. With tons of characters from the show of the four families actually very much tied back to the original Adam & Eve baby, a bunch of them are just from that family tree.

Spoiler

Take the very end and you'll see how few of the families are left when you remove Adam & Eve's child

They could have brought in POC to marry people from those families, but in great likelihood this would have most probably only started in the later time periods (say the 1980s), and it would in certain cases have revealed too much information to the viewer. Take the Charlotte-Elisabeth-Charlotte connection for instance, it's a big WTF reveal but it probably wouldn't have worked on the show if Charlotte had married a black guy? I just feel it would have been difficult to impossible to keep the mysteries of the family connections. Also, I think the school scenes show POC in both 1986 and 2019. There was also Yasin and his mother, and we know there's even more people with Turkish family connections in Germany. So it's not like they were not part of the show. But I honestly don't see how they could have incorporated POC into the main families very well from a story point of view.

Spoiler

Maybe it would have been cool if someone from the 'real' timeline who goes on to marry the remaining characters was someone entirely different and representing a minority.

 

[Viriditas]

Spoiler: PoC Representation in Dark (CW: White perspective on PoC topics)

The argument that "it wouldn't be realistic to show PoC in this media because it's rural/historical/etc" never sits right with me. And we have actual people on the thread who grew up in settings like Winden who attest that it's not accurate to their experiences. So no, I'm not on board with the perspective that it wouldn't have been realistic to show PoC in a depiction of a rural German town over the course of the last century or so.

The issue of genealogy makes much more sense. Few pieces of media (if any) I've encountered feature such an elaborate and convoluted family tree, the understanding of which is crucial in order to follow the narrative.

I still think PoC could have been cast in background or supporting roles without totally botching the story. And I like crazillo 's idea about the Origin World having PoC as part of the family in the final scene. It could have sent a message like, "Did you notice that Winden was Super White? Well that was part of the fucking problem! Did you fail to notice that Winden was Super White? That's also a problem!"

So sortof like the issues with trans representation...Dark's not ruined for me, but it's not good with diversity, either.

 

[Cockmagic]

As a minority myself, I've never understood the thirst to have minority representation in every form of media as if we have to fulfill some sort of quota. Let things happen organically. Did this show need more POC to make it what it is? I don't think so.

As far as the ending goes, I think it's growing on me. I certainly need a rewatch to fully rank this season but it's been a hell of a ride. Definitely the best show on Netflix and probably top 5 of all time.

 

[crazillo]

Spoiler: PoC Representation in Dark (CW: White perspective on PoC topics)

The argument that "it wouldn't be realistic to show PoC in this media because it's rural/historical/etc" never sits right with me. And we have actual people on the thread who grew up in settings like Winden who attest that it's not accurate to their experiences. So no, I'm not on board with the perspective that it wouldn't have been realistic to show PoC in a depiction of a rural German town over the course of the last century or so.

The issue of genealogy makes much more sense. Few pieces of media (if any) I've encountered feature such an elaborate and convoluted family tree, the understanding of which is crucial in order to follow the narrative.

I still think PoC could have been cast in background or supporting roles without totally botching the story. And I like crazillo 's idea about the Origin World having PoC as part of the family in the final scene. It could have sent a message like, "Did you notice that Winden was Super White? Well that was part of the fucking problem! Did you fail to notice that Winden was Super White? That's also a problem!"

So sortof like the issues with trans representation...Dark's not ruined for me, but it's not good with diversity, either.

Click to shrink...

Spoiler

I agree with you, but as I said, there were definitely POC in the school scenes and then Yasin (with Turkish background, very likely coming from a family of Gastarbeiter who decided to stay). The thing with Dark is also that we never really see much of a town life, do we? I refer to places like cafés, cinemas, supermarkets etc. where we could have seen other people living in Winden. At times you can think Winden only consists of those four families, even if this isn't accurate :P This show just very much focuses on the characters who are all crucial for the family trees, and there's basically very little else. And it wants to keep you guessing who is related to whom in which way, also leading you to wrong assumptions at times. Only focusing on those characters is deliberate because they are going for this dense atmosphere where literally any sentence and any action matters for the ultimate fate of the world. Given they wanted to leave these family connections mysterious to the very end, with the story they intended to tell, I'm not sure they could have done much more for those families, but as I said, the ending would have opened potential for a more diverse message.

 

[Duffking]

I finished S3 last night, I have a question.

Spoiler: Regarding the ending

How exactly did Claudia break out of her loop? It all seems to hinge on, after billions of loops, Claudia coming to the discovery that there was an origin world theirs came from. Everyone in these loops always does the same thing, including Claudia, right? So what changed this time that she did something else?

For a while in the final ep I was convinced that what we were seeing was what always happened, and that by sending Jonas and Martha back to stop Tannhaus' family dying, they were actually going to cause the accident in the first place for the ultimate bootstrap paradox.

Obviously this didn't happen... but I'm not sure still why Claudia was able to do something different. Is it just something to do with being both aware of what was happening and being one of the few characters still alive at that point who existed without the paradox? And thus, she was technically not tied to the looping events in the same way as everyone else?

 

[Singher]

As a minority myself, I've never understood the thirst to have minority representation in every form of media as if we have to fulfill some sort of quota. Let things happen organically. Did this show need more POC to make it what it is? I don't think so.

As far as the ending goes, I think it's growing on me. I certainly need a rewatch to fully rank this season but it's been a hell of a ride. Definitely the best show on Netflix and probably top 5 of all time.

Click to shrink...

lol this is so ridiculous. Minority representation doesn't happen organically, it happens due to the fact that people fight for it. If we let things happen organically then most fucking shows would still have white people playing the minority characters themselves. This still happens btw, although it doesn't seem like you would give a shit about it.


Back to the topic, I truly thought this show was awful. Season Three really showed that. The characters and their interactions did not work for me at all. I think this show might have the most one dimensional characters I have ever seen.

 

[JS3DX]

As a minority myself, I've never understood the thirst to have minority representation in every form of media as if we have to fulfill some sort of quota. Let things happen organically. Did this show need more POC to make it what it is? I don't think so.

Click to shrink...

This! Please stop with this "representation quota"! Not every story has to be told with that in mind, and less so when you are almost asking for a "token" character just for the sake of it.

--

About DARK: This season was kind of a let down to me, as it didn't do as many "crazy" thing as before. The whole "Jonas and Martha, forever and ever together" didn't click for me, and in general nothing came close to last season's "I am my own grandma!", which was out of the left field, but made perfect sense once you took a moment and tied every piece of info the show gave you.

It wasn't bad at all, but I expected a little bit more of substance in the story, and not that much of backstory for characters we already knew.

 

[Thornquist]

Having watched both previous seasons, do you recommend this one? I liked em both, but thought the story became kind of bloated at the end.

 

[Shopolic]

Just 3 episodes left and still don't know what's happening! One of the problems is my poor mind though and I forgot names soon, so lots of times don't know who is who when people are talking about some characters. :|
Didn't like this season (except a few scenes) and I'm only watching it to see the ending.

 

[milamber182]

Just 3 episodes left and still don't know what's happening! One of the problems is my poor mind though and I forgot names soon, so lots of times don't know who is who when people are talking about some characters. :|
Didn't like this season (except a few scenes) and I'm only watching it to see the ending.

Click to shrink...

The family tree image (S1 and S2 spoilers only) helped me immensely.

A German Netflix Original Series: Dark Season 3 |OT| Every decision for something, is a decision against something else. (no open spoilers)

Saw this great and easily readable character tree on the Dark subreddit (obviously there are major spoilers on there for S1/S2) https://old.reddit.com/r/DarK/comments/hg9tdl/dark_character_tree/ Definitely something that I'd expect will need some big revisions after S3 lmao, but for now it...

www.resetera.com

 

[Shopolic]

The family tree image (S1 and S2 spoilers only) helped me immensely.

A German Netflix Original Series: Dark Season 3 |OT| Every decision for something, is a decision against something else. (no open spoilers)

Saw this great and easily readable character tree on the Dark subreddit (obviously there are major spoilers on there for S1/S2) https://old.reddit.com/r/DarK/comments/hg9tdl/dark_character_tree/ Definitely something that I'd expect will need some big revisions after S3 lmao, but for now it...

www.resetera.com

Click to shrink...

Thanks a lot! I wanted something like this, but had fear about seeing S3 spoilers after searching.

 

[hydruxo]

Stephen King just tweeted about the show. Hope it gradually gets more attention over time because I still feel like it's flown way under the radar.

 

[Mariolee]

Stephen King just tweeted about the show. Hope it gradually gets more attention over time because I still feel like it's flown way under the radar.

Click to shrink...

Huge compliment to the creators. They must be proud.

 

[Killthee]

S3 score is out, time to listen to the Franziska & Magnus S3 theme on repeat.

 

[rahji]

Watched the ending and it was a great show. Actors played very well.

 

[Dmax3901]

Wrapped up this season and while I think this show has it's flaws, as a whole considering the nature of the plot it's extremely impressive. The casting was almost spooky at times with how much the younger versions looked like older ones and vice versa.

Trying to imagine plotting all this out and actually writing the scripts makes my brain hurt. I wish more TV shows were planned in advance like this, it allows for such satisfying payoffs.

One thing I didn't like about the very last episode:

Spoiler

is how they showed middle-aged Jonas disappearing after showing Adam/Eva disappearing. Like I get as a concept it's almost impossible to visualise an entire branch in time ceasing to exist, but why show the same person at different points of their life vanishing? It doesn't make sense. I wish they just showed Adam, Eva and Claudia as they were the only three who knew what Jonas and Martha were trying to do.

 

[hydruxo]

Wrapped up this season and while I think this show has it's flaws, as a whole considering the nature of the plot it's extremely impressive. The casting was almost spooky at times with how much the younger versions looked like older ones and vice versa.

Trying to imagine plotting all this out and actually writing the scripts makes my brain hurt. I wish more TV shows were planned in advance like this, it allows for such satisfying payoffs.

One thing I didn't like about the very last episode:

Spoiler

is how they showed middle-aged Jonas disappearing after showing Adam/Eva disappearing. Like I get as a concept it's almost impossible to visualise an entire branch in time ceasing to exist, but why show the same person at different points of their life vanishing? It doesn't make sense. I wish they just showed Adam, Eva and Claudia as they were the only three who knew what Jonas and Martha were trying to do.

Click to shrink...

Spoiler: Ending spoiler

Jonas is the main character, so they're just showing all timelines of him disappearing. They did the same with middle aged Martha too. Just a way of getting the point across that all versions of Jonas/Martha cease to exist.

 

[Dmax3901]

Spoiler: Ending spoiler

Jonas is the main character, so they're just showing all timelines of him disappearing. They did the same with middle aged Martha too. Just a way of getting the point across that all versions of Jonas/Martha cease to exist.

Click to shrink...

Spoiler

yeah but like... All versions of every character in those worlds should cease to exist at all times, it doesn't make sense that 'one morning middle-aged Jonas woke up and started to disappear' Again I get they have say goodbye to these characters but it was just jarring

 

[tellNoel]

Just finished the series and i really liked it. A lot of care went into the story and although it can be tricky to follow at times, you eventually fall back on the rails and let the show keep chugging you on.
I did have a couple things that I wanted to ask though.

Spoiler

Where did the multiverse device come from (i like to call it Adam's Apple because I mistakenly think i'm clever)? Who created it and did they show it in one of the episodes?
Also, elderly Charlotte that told Adam about the knot: where did she come from exactly? I get that she "ran the other way" from Noah, but in what world does she derive from?

Those are the only things i wasnt sure about.

 

[Nikus]

My parents started season 1 so it's my third time watching that season and it'll be the second time watching 2 and 3.
After the ending I wondered, if I would enjoy watching it all again. I had some issues with S3 as a whole but didn't hate the ending. It's just that I thought it wouldn't be enjoyable to watch it again after knowing how it ends. But it's actually pretty incredible.
Marta's scene in the school play in mid season 1,

Spoiler

with the choiced quotes about Ariane and the labyrinth, saying that there's no way out of the knot, and the only hope to end the pain is to cleanly cut it.

That hit me hard, among other things. I've never liked rewatching a show so much, except maybe for Twin Peaks.
I will always have some issues with S3 I think, but it doesn't ruin it. It's amazing. I love this story, its themes, and its tone.

 

[MH MD]

I think everything was connected really well and had a purpose, but there is a little something that i am not sure about.

in 2nd season there was this new detective that arrested alexander in the end cause he stole his missing brother identity, was that where he ends his story? I can live with that but I thought we would have learned a lot about his involvement etc. , -who sent the letter to him for example-, maybe it was addressed somewhere and I didn't pay attention, as the show is very dense already, but i feel this plotline is the only one that went nowhere imo.

otherwise I really liked how everything was connected and I enjoyed connecting the dots as i was watching this show, and i am glad i got to watch all three seasons in one go

 

[Charpunk]

in 2nd season there was this new detective that arrested alexander in the end cause he stole his missing brother identity, was that where he ends his story? I can live with that but I thought we would have learned a lot about his involvement etc. , -who sent the letter to him for example-, maybe it was addressed somewhere and I didn't pay attention, as the show is very dense already, but i feel this plotline is the only one that went nowhere imo.

Click to shrink...

Spoiler

The Unknown sent him the note. The middle age one repeats the quote to Gustav Tannhaus (I believe) when he killed him.

 

[KraftyKrankins]

I just finished this yesterday, after sort of binging the whole thing for the past two weeks.
I can't not feel incredibly disappointed in the focus of the show shifting from being a decent family drama + time travel to the third season being almost entirely about forced plot developments and plot twists.
To me personally the show started going down after Adam's introduction. The first season being predominantly about an incredibly flawed human being and a father searching for his child was way more interesting than the other two.
The over-reliance on the bootstrap paradox in order to explain mysteries also became quite annoying and some of what happened because of it was frankly unneeded and stupid (Elizabeth and Charlotte for example).
It was entertaining as far as the mystery box types of shows are and I did enjoy trying to figure it out, but it really didn't need to lose itself in it's own complexity. Personally, I'd have kept the focus on Noah and the families and developed the show from there on. A lot of the other stuff wasn't really needed and it wasn't all that interesting.

 

[ProfessorLobo]

Having watched both previous seasons, do you recommend this one? I liked em both, but thought the story became kind of bloated at the end.

Click to shrink...

Oh boy then you're in for a treat lol.

I'd actually put Season 3 just above GoT Season 8. People that thinks it's clever or well planned are blowing my mind.

 

[Dmax3901]

Oh boy then you're in for a treat lol.

I'd actually put Season 3 just above GoT Season 8. People that thinks it's clever or well planned are blowing my mind.

Click to shrink...

I mean this season was clearly planned out in it's basic form from the start, it's fine if you didn't like it, but comparing it to GoT Season 8 is nonsense lol.

 

[rusty chrome]

Oh boy then you're in for a treat lol.

I'd actually put Season 3 just above GoT Season 8. People that thinks it's clever or well planned are blowing my mind.

Click to shrink...

Good thing you're in the absolute minority with that horrible take.

 

[Chairmanchuck (另一个我)]

Finished it.
Liked it.

One thing I hate though (as a German) is mostly German acting or "voice acting". Its the typical "Tatort" speech. Nothing sounds natural and everything more like from what you hear in a theatre play than a real dialogue you would hear from people.

 

[Dany]

Finished the show. Generally liked the season. It was more convoluted and plot driven than what I wanted.

Spoiler

Martha was dragged around from traumatizing situations left and right. I did like the ending with Hannah continung to be the most crazy person every room lol.

 

[Iceternal]

I am glad the show is over so that I don't have to watch Jonas and Martha cry again lol.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

I finished the show last night after making my way through the whole series 1-2 episodes per night over the last month or so. Overall I enjoyed it, although I do think that the plot in S3 got a little too convoluted for its own good and I also was disappointed that several of the characters were sidelined. A fair amount of time was spent on the characters in Martha's world but I would have rather that screen time gone to characters from Jonas' world that we were already invested in - namely Magnus and Franziska, as well as Future Elisabeth and Charlotte.

 

[Deleted member 9932]

The plotting of everything was surprisingly elegant, especially for a tv show.
great visual presentation but it could have handled better the visual cues for the complexity and web of relationships.

very enjoyable.

 

[Polioliolio]

They are not everywhere, I'm sorry. It's just not true. Germany has a different kind of immigration if compared to Italy or France. Even in Italy there are several villages with no people of color at all. And Winden is not Berlin neither Munich. So it's normal if there aren't persons of color in the series and it's not a problem. And there's that thing called time travel in the series if you didn't notice which complicates everything.

Also, I've been living in Tokyo for almost a year now (Tokyo, not Winden) and it's so RARE to catch the sight of persons of color. Like really really rare.

So, no, you're dead wrong.

Let's fight for the real rights, not for Dark.

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I just finished this yesterday, after sort of binging the whole thing for the past two weeks.
I can't not feel incredibly disappointed in the focus of the show shifting from being a decent family drama + time travel to the third season being almost entirely about forced plot developments and plot twists.
To me personally the show started going down after Adam's introduction. The first season being predominantly about an incredibly flawed human being and a father searching for his child was way more interesting than the other two.
The over-reliance on the bootstrap paradox in order to explain mysteries also became quite annoying and some of what happened because of it was frankly unneeded and stupid (Elizabeth and Charlotte for example).
It was entertaining as far as the mystery box types of shows are and I did enjoy trying to figure it out, but it really didn't need to lose itself in it's own complexity. Personally, I'd have kept the focus on Noah and the families and developed the show from there on. A lot of the other stuff wasn't really needed and it wasn't all that interesting.

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Yes I agree with you.

I did enjoy it, but the final season was almost nothing but convolution for the sake of it, because by the end, it almost undoes everything by saying 'it's all a cycle, except in this last thing it isn't, and none of it mattered'.

And I actually don't think they had all seasons planned out from the start. The seasons are so drastically different, and things like the end of Season 2, other world Martha showing up for Jonas, that feels like they didn't have anything written for that yet. They just wanted to make her look different. She's inexplicably wearing lipstick in that scene because at the time when that season was written, it was probably just supposed to be a 'wow, look she looks totally different, this is wild two marthas??' but that's not really part of the character in season 3 at all. At best she put makeup on to cover her scar for whatever reason.

 

[AuthenticM]

I finished the show last night after making my way through the whole series 1-2 episodes per night over the last month or so. Overall I enjoyed it, although I do think that the plot in S3 got a little too convoluted for its own good and I also was disappointed that several of the characters were sidelined. A fair amount of time was spent on the characters in Martha's world but I would have rather that screen time gone to characters from Jonas' world that we were already invested in - namely Magnus and Franziska, as well as Future Elisabeth and Charlotte.

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I have to wonder if the show was initially planned to have more seasons. I also felt like the side characters got their development shorted in season 3.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

I have to wonder if the show was initially planned to have more seasons. I also felt like the side characters got their development shorted in season 3.

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If someone told me that they condensed the original S3 and S4 into the season we got, I'd have no problem believing them.

 

[milamber182]

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that it was plotted from the very beginning. It would have to be... surely. Something this complex doesn't just come together by luck without there being a thousand plot holes.

 

[RedSwirl]

I have to wonder if the show was initially planned to have more seasons. I also felt like the side characters got their development shorted in season 3.

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If someone told me that they condensed the original S3 and S4 into the season we got, I'd have no problem believing them.

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I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that it was plotted from the very beginning. It would have to be... surely. Something this complex doesn't just come together by luck without there being a thousand plot holes.

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Just from watching the show and not reading anything else about it, It seems pretty apparent to me that at the very least seasons 2 and 3 were written together. I could imagine them not having plotted absolutely everything out yet when they were doing season 1.

 

[MH MD]

Just from watching the show and not reading anything else about it, It seems pretty apparent to me that at the very least seasons 2 and 3 were written together. I could imagine them not having plotted absolutely everything out yet when they were doing season 1.

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Season 1 has setups for things that happen in later seasons tho

I understand that the last season feel so different and distant at times cause of the whole other world thing, but everything across all seasons ended up being connected together in a fashion that you can't do it without proper planning.

 

[milamber182]

I think they were stuck between a rock and a hard place. Focus on the characters too much in S3 and people would criticize it for not giving them the answers they want (ala Lost). Focus more on the time/dimension travel in S3 so they can tie up the plot and people would criticize it for losing focus on the characters.

I don't think they quite nailed the balance but it doesn't change the fact that as a whole it's one off my favorite shows ever. If anything I think the quicker pacing was more the problem and probably needed an extra episode to let S3 breathe a bit more.