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A German Netflix Original Series: Dark Season 3 |OT| Every decision for something, is a decision against something else. (no open spoilers)
- Thread starter Kenzodielocke
- Start date
I've settled on it being another Schrodinger's Cat sort of thing -- there are infinite cycles, and also only one cycle. There's just the knot. From the human perspective within the knot, it's natural to look at, say, your older self and think that they're from 'the cycle before yours', but it's the exact same knot, just at a different point. It's just the one knot, and at the end of it, Claudia had that chat with Adam that ended up saving/erasing everything. At the same time, that Adam was once an Old Jonas, who had his own Adam, who was once an Old Jonas, who had his own Adam, who was once an Old Jonas, and so on and so forth, for infinity.
Infinity isn't a number, and in the case of the show, it's actually very illustrative in how it's easier to think of it meaning more "is" and "isn't" than "previous number+1" or "previous number-1". There were no changes between the cycles. There was a cycle, and it was singular. For there to be incremental changes between the cycles, no matter how small or how spaced out, by default assigns numerical order and bounds that would make the knot finite.
"After 109238128 cycles, Claudia moved an extra milimeter in this one instance, and 1290812093810293810 cycles later, the butterfly effect of it enabled her to figure things out."
That's not infinite. The cycle has no beginning, or end, and you can't demarcate between 'one' and 'the next' when there's just the one, and it's always its same self. Claudia figured out the means to destroy the knot, but what she figured out was built upon a world that could be traced back circularly an infinite number of times where she didn't, because if she did, nothing would have ever existed in the first place for her to destroy.
It's another paradox in the vein of "Who wrote the book?" or "How is Charlotte/Elizabeth?", but it's the best I've got.
Infinity isn't a number, and in the case of the show, it's actually very illustrative in how it's easier to think of it meaning more "is" and "isn't" than "previous number+1" or "previous number-1". There were no changes between the cycles. There was a cycle, and it was singular. For there to be incremental changes between the cycles, no matter how small or how spaced out, by default assigns numerical order and bounds that would make the knot finite.
"After 109238128 cycles, Claudia moved an extra milimeter in this one instance, and 1290812093810293810 cycles later, the butterfly effect of it enabled her to figure things out."
That's not infinite. The cycle has no beginning, or end, and you can't demarcate between 'one' and 'the next' when there's just the one, and it's always its same self. Claudia figured out the means to destroy the knot, but what she figured out was built upon a world that could be traced back circularly an infinite number of times where she didn't, because if she did, nothing would have ever existed in the first place for her to destroy.
It's another paradox in the vein of "Who wrote the book?" or "How is Charlotte/Elizabeth?", but it's the best I've got.
I don't think it qualifies as good. He was clearly super depressed, and rather than wanting to save the world, he wanted to send everyone and everything in it to where ever Jonas and Martha glittered off to in the end. Adam/Eve/Jonas+Martha were Destroy the World/Save the Terrible Broken World/Fix the World, respectively.
I've been trying to theorize Adam
Adam disfigurement is never really explained except that he "traveled too much" but that does not make much sense when Claudia and Martha/Eve seemed to have traveled just as much, if not more.
Also Adam says that "the origin" is too strong, and that only the whole of both apocalypses can destroy it. Because it is the origin.
So my theory is that he traveled a lot trying to kill or neutralize in some way the trio, but he never could, what he missed was that the reason he could not kill them was the same reason he could not kill himself, for him to exist the trio/the unknown has to exist as well. When he keeps saying that the origin is too "strong" I imagine he tried to kill them in every way possible including blowing himself up, which is why he is so disfigured, but again, he can't kill them and he can't kill himself.
I know this ends up being irrelevant to the resolution because he was just wrong, but I really would have liked some more explanation there.
Also Adam says that "the origin" is too strong, and that only the whole of both apocalypses can destroy it. Because it is the origin.
So my theory is that he traveled a lot trying to kill or neutralize in some way the trio, but he never could, what he missed was that the reason he could not kill them was the same reason he could not kill himself, for him to exist the trio/the unknown has to exist as well. When he keeps saying that the origin is too "strong" I imagine he tried to kill them in every way possible including blowing himself up, which is why he is so disfigured, but again, he can't kill them and he can't kill himself.
I know this ends up being irrelevant to the resolution because he was just wrong, but I really would have liked some more explanation there.
Tbh I just think in making the Time Machine he just got electrocuted a lot. In the face. We already saw the machine do a number on his arm.
Yeah I also was hoping for more of an explanation on that.
There's a scene in S3 where adult Jonas in the 1800's gets zapped by the machine that he was working on and it burns his arm pretty badly. I thought that was going to be the precursor to him being disfigured entirely but it wasn't explicitly said if that was the case.
Yeah in retrospect and in my interpretation the scene where the machine causes a wound on his arm showed what happened to Stranger Jonas several times over the years. The burn wound on his arm looked very similar to what his entire body looked like on Adam. So I guess he was just fanatically trying to get the machine to work, also because he got pressure from Bartosz and the others who were unhappy they were trapped in the late 1800s for such a long time. Also Jonas knowing he won't die from accidents during his work because Future Adam lives, I'd imagine he just got careless and got zapped all over his body. The whole "time travelling changes you" or however it was worded was somewhat of a red herring, because I always asked myself why no other traveller, especially Claudia, had the same scars.
I think that Claudia, as an individual not tied to the knot, even though she always had to keep a pattern to sustain said knot (so she could keep searching), she also had a degree of randomness within her pattern. And after a undefined number of cycles, she arrived at the right solution.
Or maybe it was nothing random, but a predefined path, as a way for the original world to restore itself.
Or maybe it was nothing random, but a predefined path, as a way for the original world to restore itself.
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Finished it. I don't know how to feel because I was often confused.
I miss the amazing mystery of the first two seasons because the first two seasons was more grounded and about the characters who are stuck in this amazing loop. It was enthralling. Last season was just too grand for me to follow along, but I get it needed to ultimately crescendo into these themes
I just wonder if they could've written the story to be more about the characters again traveling through time, without all this Adam stuff
I miss the amazing mystery of the first two seasons because the first two seasons was more grounded and about the characters who are stuck in this amazing loop. It was enthralling. Last season was just too grand for me to follow along, but I get it needed to ultimately crescendo into these themes
I just wonder if they could've written the story to be more about the characters again traveling through time, without all this Adam stuff
I think we're supposed to assume there are no more new worlds and Jonas, Martha, and anyone else part of that incestuous loop have disappeared forever.
If we just go off what we're shown with the various worlds, then no probably not. The accident happens as usual in Jonas and Martha's worlds and the apocalypse always happens, then they prevent it all in the origin world by stopping the accident from occuring. When they do that, then the other worlds which were created as a result now cease to exist.
The Jonas and Martha that we know are gone, but Hannah's final line implies she's going to name her child Jonas. Though since he would be the son of Woller and Hannah rather than Hannah and Mikkel, he wouldn't be the same Jonas we've come to know in the series.
The Jonas and Martha that we know are gone, but Hannah's final line implies she's going to name her child Jonas. Though since he would be the son of Woller and Hannah rather than Hannah and Mikkel, he wouldn't be the same Jonas we've come to know in the series.
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They saved Tannhaus' family resulting in him never making the time machine which went poorly and fractured the world into the Jonas world and the Martha world. So now there is only the original world where time travel never happened. So all of the relationships that were a result of that never happened.
Just hit me that Tannhaus's machine worked exactly the way he wanted to in the 'end' (just in an extremely circuitous way that will never be visible to his 'world', since of course he never built it). I'm aware it sounds super dumb and obvious spelling it out like that, but it's really poignant to me—while it 'initially' seems like the machine failed, the mechanism by which it works is to create new universes that ultimately solve the original problem.
Really love the ending, and that last scene is so great/sweet.
Really love the ending, and that last scene is so great/sweet.
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Thanks for all the replies. A quick follow up. Spoilers season 3.
i see. So is the apocalypse the only time where there could be two paths branch with Martha and alt Martha. And Jonas and alt Jonas. Where Jonas dies after being saved by Martha. And the Jonas fhat becomes adam. I thought maybe with the car accident that there could be a branch where they never stop the accident from happening.
While I really enjoyed it overall, season 3 did kinda sour things a little for me. Not that it was bad, it was just so far and beyond what I was expecting after season one (even though season 2 kinda started going that way towards the end). I just preferred the more groundedness of the 1st season and that
Not sure if I'm making any sense but that's just my take. Still absolutely loved it and will recommend it to others.
in the end everything we watched in the first 2 seasons meant nothing in the grand scheme of things. Like sure it was a loop, but the whole mystery of people missing and traveling had little to no significance other than playing out a loop, which just made it a little lame to me. The ending itself was cool though, makes you just feel a sense of emptiness when you realize everyone you learned to love watching the show ceases to exist because they were only a product of the dimension split.
I definitely felt that way as well, but I feel better knowing that although they cease to exist they still did exist. If they didn't exist, then they wouldn't have been able to stop the tragedy that would have happened. In addition, some of the characters definitely still feel the ripples of the other universe like Jonas's mom in the end.
Yeah, the apocalypse is the only time where branches in the loop can happen.
Yeah I really love the roundabout way in which everything was fixed. Tannhaus succeeded in preventing the accident but he'll never even know everything that he set in motion, and that's the beauty of it.
Not spoiling anything, but just take in the information they give you and hold onto it. For most the season I thought the show got a little to far up it's own ass, but it all pays off in the end and was worth it.
I finished yesterday and was actually upset because I love looking at theories and discussions, and while there is some of those, they so perfectly nailed the ending imo that my frustration was because of that lol.
I'm at ep7 and hella confused. Where did
future 2040 Jonas come from? He just suddenly appeared in the nuclear rplant.
He's the same Jonas who got older alongside Hanno/Noah and Claudia.
This. Jonas didn't travel at all between 1988 and 1920 when he became Adam.
the apocalypse allowed Jonas and Martha to make multiple choices during that brief window. Once choice caused Martha to take him to her world, another choice Martha didn't take him and he hid in the basement to survive the blast. That Jonas stayed in the current time and worked with the other survivors to get the time machine working again. By 2052 he was the older Jonas that became the Stranger, and eventually Adam.
Finished this two days ago, still thinking about it. They really landed the story.
Thinking about
This piece of the soundtrack is so incredible. I waited the whole season for it to strike again
Thinking about
How/When Claudia realizes those that are out of the loop and how they are the key to finish it all. Also, Where/when happened that Regina was a Doppler? I missed that, I remember the talk in the graveyard but that seemed to come out of nowhere
This piece of the soundtrack is so incredible. I waited the whole season for it to strike again
Claudia and Berndt are Regina's parents
You can see it on the Dark Netflix site's family tree: https://darknetflix.io/en
You can see it on the Dark Netflix site's family tree: https://darknetflix.io/en
Yeah, I know. It's just that I don't know how that happened. I think I'll rewatch S1 and 2 too, because I don't remember how that happened
They don't really get into it to be honest. It's unclear if it was the result of him grooming her when she was still underage (the scene where he gives her the money for tutoring Helge was creepy IMO, but open to interpretation on whether or not he had any other intentions there beyond paying her for tutoring), or if they just got into an actual relationship later after the power plant was built when they were both adults. There's not a whole lot to go on with their relationship.
Finished it yesterday. Loved the show but I think season 3 is the worst season for me. Kinda wish they hadn't gone there.
Amazing show tho, easily one of my favorite shows of all time. Everyone should watch it.
Amazing show tho, easily one of my favorite shows of all time. Everyone should watch it.
Yeah, I see. That's my only nitpick then. It feels kind of out ot nowhere
Just finished season 3. In the end my wife just gave up trying to connect the dots and I stopped to explain it, just told her to wait for the finale. And boy, was it worth it. Everything just clicked.
regarding the one thing from the last e
regarding the one thing from the last e
Claudias "escape" from the loop is actually explained in Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy: If you have infinity apes with tipewriters, eventually they will write every Shakespeare poem by chance. Same here. We got infinite loops, so the chances that some minor changes happen is also Chaos Theory. Amazingly thought through by the producers.
Enjoy the ride! And get out of this thread, you don't want to get spoiled :P I mean even major details wouldn't spoil too much without context given how complex the series is, but you get the point, the series is at its best when you get to experience all the madness first-hand.
Btw if you ever need a refresher on characters, check out the official website. https://darknetflix.io/en
You can enter the current episode you are at and you will only get shown information up to the point you watched, it's very well made.
That happened to me throughout season 2, specially after the last episode. It makes less and less sense as the series advances.
I am being very careful not to look at any posts! Just need a place to vent about what I'm seeing. Also, that site is gonna be a godsend. I've been using a site with very detailed recaps, but this seems much more convenient. Thanks!
Same, I would go as far to say it is probably the best time travel story ever made.
It's definitely up there, but it's hard this close to its conclusion to say it's the best for me.
I just think it's so damn impressive how they made such a complex time travel story involving bootstrap paradoxes and set up a way to break the cycle in a satisfying way. There have been plenty of impressive time travel stories and movies involving bootstrap paradoxes but none that I can remember that break them well.
Anyone know if there's a playlist with all the music from the show on it? Damn good music selection.
Also, super impressed that Dark was made by a couple - Janice Friese wrote all 26 episodes (sometimes with a writing partner) and Baran Bo Odar directed all 26 episodes - and they're dating or married. That's incredible. Whatever they do next I'm there day one.
Also, super impressed that Dark was made by a couple - Janice Friese wrote all 26 episodes (sometimes with a writing partner) and Baran Bo Odar directed all 26 episodes - and they're dating or married. That's incredible. Whatever they do next I'm there day one.
This one has most of the tracks from every season on it, but missing a few big ones like 'Irgendwie, Irgendwo, Irgendwann' by Nena
Also, they have another Netflix show in the works called 1899 that sounds really fascinating:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/n...ic-horror-1899-as-next-netflix-series-1160810
Honestly the only thing i can imagine being on the other ship is Dio Brando from the JoJo's Bizarre Adventure Series. that or it's like the 3rd act of Sunshine but for the whole series.
Thank you for both the playlist and the news on their next project - sounds dope!
the only thing i guess they didnt get to that i figured they would was aleksander's parents, but hes just some rando that's fine
oh and maybe a little bit more with agnes, she seemed so important and she showed up like twice in all of season 3 (and one of those times was as a baby!)
oh and how helge's kid came to be, like when he had sex and with who, but they dont seem to care about that so whatever
oh and maybe like one or two throwaway lines about why eva's apocalypse seems to be so much more intense and why they have fancier cooler harry potter snitch time machines instead of boring clunky suitcase ones
BUT OTHER THAN THOSE
what a great show
and i think i actually kept it all straight in my head. it was really fun just pausing it and walking through all the character relationships with the person i was watching it with a few times an episode and it honestly really really helped
i loved how they kept the crazy incestous loop going in the other dimension even without the whole mikkel part, that was genius, it seemed so essential for most of the show
oh and maybe a little bit more with agnes, she seemed so important and she showed up like twice in all of season 3 (and one of those times was as a baby!)
oh and how helge's kid came to be, like when he had sex and with who, but they dont seem to care about that so whatever
oh and maybe like one or two throwaway lines about why eva's apocalypse seems to be so much more intense and why they have fancier cooler harry potter snitch time machines instead of boring clunky suitcase ones
BUT OTHER THAN THOSE
what a great show
and i think i actually kept it all straight in my head. it was really fun just pausing it and walking through all the character relationships with the person i was watching it with a few times an episode and it honestly really really helped
i loved how they kept the crazy incestous loop going in the other dimension even without the whole mikkel part, that was genius, it seemed so essential for most of the show
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Maaaannnnn, that scene with
just destroys me every time. So heartbreakingly poignant while simultaneously uplifting.
Martha and Jonas after they save Tannhaus's son and thereby cease to exist, where they exchange a few last tearful words before they look off into the horizon and turn to dust