A dev who worked "hundreds of hours" on Starbound wasn't paid a cent by Chucklefish, along with other unpaid workers after being promised pay

[BLASTEROID]

Work "for experience" and unpaid/underpaid internships are just different names for worker exploitation. I almost got bamboozled into accepting something like that because I was desperate and to this day I am glad that I didn't. Instead I got a job that adequately compesates me for my time and work.

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Sure.. that can be the case. But unpaid internship can easily be worth it.

A company like chucklefish which is small, maybe not a lot of capital flying around, but still has very high visibility... IMO it makes sense that they would offer something like that.

Every entry level gaming industry job this person applies for hence forth, he/she will have a leg up in getting an actual interview. Let alone the industry folks they may have met along the way. Its great to have that before you even finish HS.

 

[Arkanim94]

But unpaid internship can easily be worth it.

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Nah fuck that.

 

[kurt]

Its not working for free what the issue is. Its more like you start developing something as one team. If it can get released, the money should be honest shared to all who worked on it. Its always hard to begin something new, so i do understand if a new company would not pay until its released. But in this case, its different and wrong what they did.

 

[Deleted member 7373]

I'm really curious, did anyone sign any contracts that give Chucklefish the right to use their work (for all these non employees who contributed).

 

[Deleted member 21709]

After reading more tweets from other people, I think all threads promoting Chucklefish games should be banned, until they make a statement. This is outrageous.

Sure.. that can be the case. But unpaid internship can easily be worth it.

A company like chucklefish which is small, maybe not a lot of capital flying around, but still has very high visibility... IMO it makes sense that they would offer something like that.

Every entry level gaming industry job this person applies for hence forth, he/she will have a leg up in getting an actual interview. Let alone the industry folks they may have met along the way. Its great to have that before you even finish HS.

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They weren't interns, they were contributors. Artists, musicians, coders - unpaid.

 

[Radline]

It seems like even the creator of the Avali mod (a very popular race mod, and probably one of the most popular mods out there) was being offered to make them part of the game officially, but, of course, in unpaid work.
If true, Chucklefish and Tiy (aka Finn Brice) are looking worse with each word about them.

 

[Syril]

It seems like even the creator of the Avali mod (a very popular race mod, and probably one of the most popular mods out there) was being offered to make them part of the game officially, but, of course, in unpaid work.
If true, Chucklefish and Tiy (aka Finn Brice) are looking worse with each word about them.

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Man I ain't even surprised anymore.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Confirmation

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I feel gross for buying this game, even on sale.

As another software developer, I had to seemingly constantly tell others to never, ever, ever, EVER work for free, back when I was still in uni or had just graduated. You give your time to a company, and the company reimburses you with money. Because money is what pays the bills, feeds you. Experience is not a form of payment, it's a mutually beneficial side product of working - you'll get better, which means you'll benefit the company more.

It's fucking incredible to see other workers stan for this shit. The tech industry seems fucked up enough already, let's not intentionally further this garbage.

If you want to do work that won't pay you anything but will benefit you in the future, work on personal software projects and post them online. Websites, public git repositories, whatever. It's considerably more tangible experience than a "worked as an unpaid trainee for 2 years for company X" line on your CV, cause how worthwhile can that experience even be if they didn't even bother paying you for your work?

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well stated.

I've never had an internship nor do I know anyone in or around my class at U. Michigan Engineering that had an internship or similar that didn't get paid, and paid generally quite well. Fuck working for free, and fuck any employer who would suggest doing so.

 

[plufim]

I just hope they aren't fucking over the teams they act as publishers for, but at this point I'm guessing they do.

 

[ShadowFox08]

Did the topic title just change recently or has it always been like this? I've posted here before and after reading all the tweets again in the OP, unless I missed something, the tweets said nothing about promising pay and witholding money after doing the work. They said the bosses said they are doing it for free and the original guy on Twitter that was quoted even said,"the point is that nobody should be working for free...it leaves a bad taste in your mouth."

This sounds like something they agreed to from the get go and it was an internship of some sorts (especially at age 16 for a tech job). This is not to say that I don't disagree with him that people should not be working for free, despite for the sake of experience to get your foot in the door and that's it's exploitive... But this is in every field unfortunately as others have suggested and needs some regulation for sure..


That and contract jobs with no benefits makes me mad. It's common place unfortunately.

 

[chaobreaker]

Feeling sorry for all those small indie devs that got their games published by Chucklefish. Now the stink of the whole company will affect their livelihoods as well.

 

[Meriadock]

Chucklefish responds.

"It's been almost a decade since Starbound's development first began, and from then Chucklefish has grown considerably into an indie studio that has a strong emphasis on good working practices, providing a welcoming environment for all employees and freelancers. Our doors remain open to any related parties who wish to discuss their concerns with us directly."

Do we have any comments on the environment today?

 

[Deleted member 1849]

Did the topic title just change recently or has it always been like this? I've posted here before and after reading all the tweets again in the OP, unless I missed something, the tweets said nothing about promising pay and witholding money after doing the work. They said the bosses said they are doing it for free and the original guy on Twitter that was quoted even said,"the point is that nobody should be working for free...it leaves a bad taste in your mouth."

This sounds like something they agreed to from the get go and it was an internship of some sorts (especially at age 16 for a tech job). This is not to say that I don't disagree with him that people should not be working for free, despite for the sake of experience to get your foot in the door and that's it's exploitive... But this is in every field unfortunately as others have suggested and needs some regulation for sure..


That and contract jobs with no benefits makes me mad. It's common place unfortunately.

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I changed the title a few hours after making the thread, as new evidence emerged. The evidence is in the threadmarks, and might not apply to the case in the OP, but definitely applies to some of the other workers at Chucklefish.

 

[Deleted member 45414]

I'm definitely thinking twice about buying any future Chucklefish games :( That statement was not at all a good sign.

Honestly, it's quite upsetting, because I was all about their games so far.

 

[Deleted member 39450]

That's the transgender rights flag.............

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The trans pride flag looks a lot like that "pedophile pride" flag that was making the rounds last year. Reticon6 might not have realized that it was actually a hoax:

 

[SanTheSly]

https://www.polygon.com/2019/9/2/20...lopers-chucklefish-game-industry-exploitation

Polygon writeup's out. Some of this is pretty horrendous.

 

[Mengy]

I still love Starbound and I think its a great game, but yeah I won't be buying any more Chucklefish games going forward. As a developer they are done to me, I won't support behavior like this with my money.

 

[plufim]

Still no word on how they treat the Indies they act as publishers for. Until stated otherwise, I will assume the worst. They'll all be under NDA.

 

[Deleted member 1849]

Spookitty recalled an example of bullying, saying, "Finn outed a coworker as being trans by asking them which bathroom they used. He thought it was hilarious. He thought it was even more hilarious when my coworker told him off."

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Finn sounds like a right prick.

 

[Deleted member 40102]

He was working at sixteen and that was legal???

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Honestly I don't care at this point if its legal or not, if I worked 2 goddamn years my ass off then pay me back all the hard work and time spent....

 

[Deleted member 40102]

(Welp wrong thread)

 

[spineduke]

Chucklefish responds.

"It's been almost a decade since Starbound's development first began, and from then Chucklefish has grown considerably into an indie studio that has a strong emphasis on good working practices, providing a welcoming environment for all employees and freelancers. Our doors remain open to any related parties who wish to discuss their concerns with us directly."

Do we have any comments on the environment today?

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[BBboy20]

They take unpaid labour because they know it can do the job and they have 0 expenses.

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Spoiler

s l a v e r y : D

 

[SanTheSly]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMR7chqS4_8

Another report out on the topic, this time from Inside Gaming.

They go pretty in depth, and even have audio interviews with some of the staff affected. Glad the hosts all seem to categorically side with the "this is manipulation and abuse" side, given they've all gone through incredibly similar working experiences before.

 

[astro]

The trans pride flag looks a lot like that "pedophile pride" flag that was making the rounds last year. Reticon6 might not have realized that it was actually a hoax:

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Honestly, people need to check these things before they start making claims or "asking questions" in a suggestive way. A quick google would have proven what it was.

 

[SanTheSly]

https://youtu.be/gMKBzwSBeS8

Latest Jimquisition covers this sufficiently as well.

 

[dock]

The way that assets for Starbound were 'sourced' makes more sense when you consider that the lead also worked on Terraria, a game which launched with Final Fantasy sprite rips as player characters.

The Terraria devs gradually edited and painted over the Final Fantasy characters.

 

[atomsk eater]

Shitty practices and super frustrating to read people's experiences. This just makes me weary of Chucklefish's upcoming games.

Would like a better statement from Chucklefish regarding their current and upcoming games and whether people were compensated fairly for their work on those. There current statements are pretty "wow it's fucking nothing".

 

[Landford]

Shitty practices and super frustrating to read people's experiences. This just makes me weary of Chucklefish's upcoming games.

Would like a better statement from Chucklefish regarding their current and upcoming games and whether people were compensated fairly for their work on those. There current statements are pretty "wow it's fucking nothing".

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Because it IS fucking nothing. They are essentially saying "Yeah, we did that when we were not drowning in money, now we pay people salaries. Tough luck."

 

[SanTheSly]

On this topic, it's also worth noting that 2 former Chucklefish devs who HAD been publishing their game via the company have now cut ties and gone fully independent, self-publishing their upcoming game: https://twitter.com/ByttenStudio/status/1173606039238979589?s=20

 

[aiswyda]

On this topic, it's also worth noting that 2 former Chucklefish devs who HAD been publishing their game via the company have now cut ties and gone fully independent, self-publishing their upcoming game: https://twitter.com/ByttenStudio/status/1173606039238979589?s=20

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The other being concernedape, right?

I saw his statement when he posted it and thought he did a good job separating himself without potentially blackballing himself from the industry.

 

[SanTheSly]

The other being concernedape, right?

I saw his statement when he posted it and thought he did a good job separating himself without potentially blackballing himself from the industry.

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I mean, ConcernedApe did also split from them a while back, but this is a separate project being made directly by two former Chucklefish developers.

 

[Mekanos]

Not only are unpaid internships exploitative, they are only really an option to people who have outside financial support. So privileged people get more chances while people who are barely scraping by (if that) get nothing I guess.