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Antoo

Member
May 1, 2019
3,786
With the release of AI: The Somnium Files coming up, I've been thinking back to my playthrough of the entire Zero Escape series.

I adore these games. I even like ZTD, which I embrace with open arms. It was a cheesy serial! Yes, it was campy but it walked that fine line so well that it worked wonders.

The game that has not sat well with me though since I played it for the first time was 999. This is the one that most people consider their favorite and there is a strong list of reasons for why this is justified. It's a masterclass in building tension and crafts a setting dripping with atmosphere. The way it blends real life conspiracies and the supernatural to make you feel dread makes you hooked right away. The characters are varied in personality and play off each other well.

However, the true ending sucks. I said it. I honestly rather consider the axe ending or submarine ending as my canon ending. Time has not really been kind on it as the longer I've sat with it the more I kind of hate it.

For the most part, what worked about the game was that it was grounded above all else. Yes, there were hints at the supernatural (which proved out to be fake by the way); however, the game always felt like it was a contained thriller. This ending throws it all out the window and cranks the anime bullshit up to 11. Hear we go with someone taking 10 bullets and surviving because of rage. Here we go with this true love conquers all.

Look, I don't mind romance. But a huge problem is the relationship with Akane and Junpei is horribly undeveloped. Up until the point of the ending, all the two ever did were make some puppy dog eyes at each other. Yeah, it was entertaining and all but when it is thrusted center stage it starts to fall apart. What do these two feel for each other? It says they have a deep rooted connection but all we see is awkward teen conversations and nothing substantial.

Let's compare it to VLR. Phi and Sigma have a much better central relationship. The game gives them ample screentime together, and they grow and learn to appreciate each other. The two find out much more about each other and strike a believable friendship.

But they did provide a reasoning for the Junpei and Akane's connection didn't they? Oh boy...not only is this tacked on at the end as a cheap attempt to get you to believe these two have a connection but also is the stupidest crap I've ever seen. THEY WERE LIKE IN 1ST GRADE. WHAT IS THIS NONSENSE?!?! They shared some animal crackers and solved what happened to the class pet, big whoop. How do they look back with such fondness at memories from such a young age. What do kids even know at that age?

Like I said, their relationship is cute and fluffy and nothing more. Just like a relationship in elementary school. Yet the game banks on it as the crux of the entire conflict. Gone is the creepiness of the ship. Gone is any fear of the characters dying.

If this was touched upon even more maybe it would have worked. They needed to play it more than just a innocent relationship. They needed to explore how that was truly Akane's last real moment in life, which is why she feels so strongly about Junpei. But how is that possible when she is so cold now in reality? Did Junpei thaw her ice cold heart a little? If so, there surely wasn't enough to justify it. Why is Junpei still hung up about Akane? Does he have no game? Who knows?

My point is the ending is nonsensical and turns a straightforward contained thriller into generic anime bullshit. The central relationship is underdeveloped and therefore it made everything meaningless.

That being said 8/10 good game.
 

RochHoch

One Winged Slayer
Member
May 22, 2018
18,916
999 was the best one by far, what the fuck. It was infinitely better than VLR's weak-ass non ending.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,099
I loved the ending.

Although I do think it made writing the sequels harder, and they suffered somewhat because of how things wrapped up.
 

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,769
As a fan of the series I've always kinda been of the belief that how much you enjoy 999 is going to come down to how you parse that ending, because a lot of what leads up to that moment is pretty hit or miss. All in all I think it lands the twist perfectly, even if it feels like it's carrying too much of the game.

VLR was always my favorite but it had the opposite problem. It's consistently great and it would've been an all-time classic if its entire twist ending didn't boil down to "find out in the next episode!" That's where it really stumbled for me.

ZTD mostly just stays at a flatline, doesn't reach many highs or lows, but still pretty good all things considered.

I love this series but there are a lot of flaws with it that are hard to ignore.
 

Kingpin Rogers

HILF
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,459
I need someone to explain the ending to me tbh. My understanding of it is Akane died in the first Nonary game but then somehow planned a second Nonary game so Junpei could form some mental connection to her and teach her how to solve the puzzle that would save her life? Am I getting that correct? If that's the case, who is Zero in the second Nonary game? Akane? How? How is she there at all if she's supposed to be dead? Does she end up being alive by the end of the game since we successfully teach young Akane the solution to the final puzzle? I haven't played VLR or ZTD yet so if anything I asked is elaborated there I'd rather not know and find out for myself when I play them.
 

Soulflarz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,807
Wait.
You're actually defending a game that's entire premise was building up to a sister game that was written at the same time as a better game. The issue with this is Uchikoshi completely rewrote the sister game once he couldn't develop it at the same time and as a result VLR is half a concept with 0 payoff since everything that happens means NOTHING to the series overall. 999 is self contained and is well written for what it is.

I understand finding 999 kinda redundant. I understand not being blown away by the twist. I don't understand arguing VLR had a better written ending considering it exists solely to tie into a game that was never made- you can't argue an unfinished product would've had a great ending without knowing...how it'd go?

edit: wait I just realized you argued ZTD is better, not VLR. I don't have a response for that beyond "think more critically about the media you're consuming".

I need someone to explain the ending to me tbh. My understanding of it is Akane died in the first Nonary game but then somehow planned a second Nonary game so Junpei could form some mental connection to her and teach her how to solve the puzzle that would save her life? Am I getting that correct? If that's the case, who is Zero in the second Nonary game? Akane? How? How is she there at all if she's supposed to be dead? Does she end up being alive by the end of the game since we successfully teach young Akane the solution to the final puzzle? I haven't played VLR or ZTD yet so if anything I asked is elaborated there I'd rather not know and find out for myself when I play them.

The TL;DR is that Santa used the field to get the funding via cradle money and used that to create the events which will keep her alive, closing the time loop. The entire game is from Akanes perspective, not Junpeis. https://zeroescape.fandom.com/wiki/Answers can probably help, just don't read beyond 999's section. The rest is explained later, all I know is that 999 is actually not a plot hole mess unlike VLR->ZTD.
 

Theodoricos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
240
You're seriously complaining about anime bullshit of all things in 999? Compared to the crazy shenanigans that happen in VLR?

Not to mention that none of it comes out of nowhere, it's all foreshadowed and that's part of the reason why it's so effective.
 

sredgrin

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,276
I need someone to explain the ending to me tbh. My understanding of it is Akane died in the first Nonary game but then somehow planned a second Nonary game so Junpei could form some mental connection to her and teach her how to solve the puzzle that would save her life? Am I getting that correct? If that's the case, who is Zero in the second Nonary game? Akane? How? How is she there at all if she's supposed to be dead? Does she end up being alive by the end of the game since we successfully teach young Akane the solution to the final puzzle? I haven't played VLR or ZTD yet so if anything I asked is elaborated there I'd rather not know and find out for myself when I play them.

It's elaborated on in the sequels.
 

RecRoulette

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,044
Hey I like Zero Time Dilemma too but you're dead wrong on this or have had a VERY fortunate life where 999 is one of the worst endings youve seen.

You honestly say the true ending is "anime bullshit" but consider the axe ending canon? The most anime bullshit ending of them all?
 

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,769
I need someone to explain the ending to me tbh. My understanding of it is Akane died in the first Nonary game but then somehow planned a second Nonary game so Junpei could form some mental connection to her and teach her how to solve the puzzle that would save her life? Am I getting that correct? If that's the case, who is Zero in the second Nonary game? Akane? How? How is she there at all if she's supposed to be dead? Does she end up being alive by the end of the game since we successfully teach young Akane the solution to the final puzzle? I haven't played VLR or ZTD yet so if anything I asked is elaborated there I'd rather not know and find out for myself when I play them.
There's a line of dialogue in the ending that implies Seven might have lied about Akane being dead. Plus he got hit with most of the memory loss so his memory may be sketchy.
 
Oct 28, 2017
16,780
I'm gonna side with the OP here. I don't actually agree with him, but I'm gonna side with him.

VLR is much better than 999 though.

Can we just turn this thread in to a ZTD bashing thread? We can all agree that game was pure garbage, right?
 

Krvavi Abadas

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,254
Videoland
Can't really contribute much because i haven't (and currently have no interest in) played the Zero Escape games, but uh....
With the release of AI: The Somnium Files coming up, I've been thinking back to my playthrough of the entire Zero Escape series.
For the most part, what worked about the game was that it was grounded above all else. Yes, there were hints at the supernatural (which proved out to be fake by the way); however, the game always felt like it was a contained thriller. This ending throws it all out the window and cranks the anime bullshit up to 11. Hear we go with someone taking 10 bullets and surviving because of rage. Here we go with this true love conquers all.
OP, you might not want want to play Somnium Files. I'm fairly confident you'll burst into flames upon discovering how Anime it really is.
 

Soulflarz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,807
There's a line of dialogue in the ending that implies Seven might have lied about Akane being dead. Plus he got hit with most of the memory loss.
He was lying the entire game or
got his memory altered
is the official reason.

Must have missed that. If that's the case though then what the hell was the point of that Nonary game at all?
Ace was running the nonary games to test the morphogenic fields, Santa just wanted his sister back.
 

Acquiesc3

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,724
Hard disagree coming in the thread, but was eager anyway to see how you back it up. All I read was nonsense unfortunately OP.
 

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,769
Must have missed that. If that's the case though then what the hell was the point of that Nonary game at all?
It's a stable time loop. Akane had to set up the events of 999 in order for her vision to pass.

Kinda like how Doctor Strange had to give up the Time Stone in Infinity War for that 1 in 14 million chance.
 

Stopdoor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,778
Toronto
I don't understand this opinion at all, but mostly because I'm not convinced by your rationale. Like yeah, to Junpei, it was just a bit of a crush, nothing serious, but at the end of the game he has to talk to Akane when she was a child, when those memories were still fresh for her. He realizes this whole thing was setup just for this and to save an innocent child who trusted him, and it's hard not feel a surge of emotion at that for anyone, including the player. The revelation she named herself "June" is just a reminder of that, that she remembers that attachment and that's what this is all about.

Like, the game kind of blue-balls you in a way because she literally abandons ship and disappears after the climax, leaving you wanting for that real "resolution" between them. Did that "relationship" or crush mean anything to her? The game almost agrees with you there wasn't confirmation of anything really "there". It's kind of a masterful ambiguity but man the thing I hated most about VLR was how it was completely uninterested in addressing that loose end.
 

wossname

Member
Dec 12, 2017
1,424
It's been a while since I played 999 and don't fully remember what happened, but I do remember being disappointed with the ending. I wouldn't go as far as to say it is the worst ever, but as you say for the most part 999 is a fairly grounded, incredibly tense thriller, but then towards the end goes crazy with the mental connection through time stuff. The final puzzle being a bloody sudoku was weak as well.
 

CaptainK

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,889
Canada
I read the whole post and your only problem is Akane and Junpei's relationship? I mean yeah it's just supposed to be a given that they are childhood sweethearts. I'm not sure what more you want explained. Phi and Sigma were more fleshed-out sure, but 999 had like a fraction of the script that VLR did. Given that 999 was actually a pretty short game, it fucking nailed it.
 

sredgrin

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,276
I do kind of agree in the sense of like, their relationship isn't that well fleshed out. You'd think if she was going to communicate across time and space it would be with her brother that was incredibly close with that was also there in the future.
 
OP
OP
Antoo

Antoo

Member
May 1, 2019
3,786
You're seriously complaining about anime bullshit of all things in 999? Compared to the crazy shenanigans that happen in VLR?

Not to mention that none of it comes out of nowhere, it's all foreshadowed and that's part of the reason why it's so effective.
It's about consistency. VLR is a science fiction story through and through. It never loses sight of that. This isn't to say you can't have genre mashups though that is hard to do and requires a talented writer.
 

Feep

Lead Designer, Iridium Studios
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,602
Just joining in the insane chorus of "hell no". 999's ending is almost entirely unique among fiction itself and their relationship, while given a grounding from a long time ago, is somewhat created in a closed time-loop and given importance in that way.
 

Yasumi

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,575
Dang OP, I don't know how you managed to miss the Z, T, and D keys for all three letters for the thread title, but you achieved it.
 
OP
OP
Antoo

Antoo

Member
May 1, 2019
3,786
Hey I like Zero Time Dilemma too but you're dead wrong on this or have had a VERY fortunate life where 999 is one of the worst endings youve seen.

You honestly say the true ending is "anime bullshit" but consider the axe ending canon? The most anime bullshit ending of them all?
??? One of the people in the group losing it after losing the one person that is dear to her in a stressful situation versus elementary school love trumps all. What is more consistent with the tone set up until the end?
 

takoyaki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,677
Yeah, it's not written as skillfully as the bafflingly underrated Lux-Pain.
I'd say it's like a densely written airport thriller with weak prose that doesn't justify the time investment.

/jk

But check out some of the old mixed reviews for 999, there's some funny stuff in there
 

Theodoricos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
240
It's about consistency. VLR is a science fiction story through and through. It never loses sight of that. This isn't to say you can't have genre mashups though that is hard to do and requires a talented writer.

Alright, but throughout the game you're constantly told these myths and stories about Ice-9, about the Gigantic, about morphogenetic fields, about people communicating telepathically with each other, Ace being face-blind, etc.

It's all building up to somewhere and that's where the ending takes you, so I don't think it's inconsistent, but a natural continuation of these set-ups. If all of these threads had been dropped, I'd have considered the ending weaker for it.