That's definitely true. Twintelle over minmin was such a braindead easy decision because not only is twintelle a cooler character she also adds diversity which is a win all around. No excuses for that.
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89 Characters & Not a Single Black Character: The Anti-Blackness of Super Smash Bros. Ultimate
- Thread starter Neoxon
- Start date
That's definitely true. Twintelle over minmin was such a braindead easy decision because not only is twintelle a cooler character she also adds diversity which is a win all around. No excuses for that.
OP
OP
Notice how a lot of the people who voted no were silent. That tells you everything you need to know.It would be embraced but also wouldn't. I was shocked when I made this poll some years ago at how almost half outright refused the possibility of the next new human Mario character being a PoC. Never underestimate how much of the fanbase would actively push against correcting their diversity problem.
Should the next original human Mario character be a PoC?
So here's where we're at. Nearing the better part of 50 years so far, we've yet to see a key/main/playable character of Color in a franchise as big as Mario. Nintendo as a whole could use better representation, but newer franchises like Arms and Splatoon! have made efforts to feature more...www.resetera.com
As I've said before, Min Min is the roster's first Chinese character & that fact shouldn't be dismissed. Even though I'm disappointed that Twintelle wasn't even considered, Min Min still added diversity to Smash.
Thanks for letting me know. I did not realize Min Min is Chinese. I guess with the blonde hair I just ignorantly assumed she was white. I haven't played ARMS yet. I still believe Twintelle being included would be more significant and impactful. Min Min is still better than spring man and ribbon girl though (watch them be diverse as well 😅)
It's honestly pathetic. You basically have to go out of the way to make a fighting game with 89 characters and not have a single one of them be black.
Nintendo has been making games for like over 40 years and they dont have any prominent characters that arent white.
The fact that the Fire Emblem series alone has hundreds of characters and none of them are black says a whole lot.
They need to be better. To the people saying that this represents the industry as whole please just stop. This was all Nintendo, they dont need to be let off the hook for this.
Nintendo has been making games for like over 40 years and they dont have any prominent characters that arent white.
The fact that the Fire Emblem series alone has hundreds of characters and none of them are black says a whole lot.
They need to be better. To the people saying that this represents the industry as whole please just stop. This was all Nintendo, they dont need to be let off the hook for this.
Aside from what's been said about Xenoblade being a more established franchise, Marina and Pearl are supporting background characters that strike me as unlikely to be added to Smash. There's generally three "types" of characters added to Smash; leading playable protagonists, villains, or significant supporting characters (think Zelda, Peach, Palutena, Isabelle etc.). Marina and Pearl have only been in one game and generally are more in the background than the third category. If we were to get a second Splatoon character it would definitely be Octoling in my mind, who is dark skinned, but not sure if they'd be considered black.
There are of course exceptions to these character roles, like Piranha Plant, but I can't think of very many.
Anthony should have gotten a spinoff. Since Prime 3 was definitely riffing on Halo in places, they could have had a Higgs-focused traditional shooter series on the side.
Agreed.
This is the weirdest excuse for me.
Do people only play Nintendo games or something? Most AAA and Indies these days are diverse as heck. Square is making an AAA RPG game with a black lady as the protagonist, something people didn't expect would happen and you still get this excuse.
It is only Nintendo that doesn't seem capable of doing this.
This is a bit of a nitpick, but a lot of the characters being written off as white are Japanese. The Smash roster is overwhelmingly light skinned, but the "all light skinned anime characters are white" fallacy is problematic, too.
Yeah it's such horseshit. I'm tired of Nintendo by and large getting a pass for things other company's would get rightfully dragged through the coals for.
You only have to look at other fighting game rosters like Mortal Kombat, Tekken, Street Fighter and Killer Instinct for the arguement to fall apart.
I wasnt really talking about the anime characters.
Most of their big characters that have been around for decades like Mario/Luigi/Peach, Link/Zelda and Samus are all white.
Mario as a series has been around for 30+ years and there isnt a single black character in the Mushroom Kingdom is there?
It would be embraced but also wouldn't. I was shocked when I made this poll some years ago at how almost half outright refused the possibility of the next new human Mario character being a PoC. Never underestimate how much of the fanbase would actively push against correcting their diversity problem.
Should the next original human Mario character be a PoC?
So here's where we're at. Nearing the better part of 50 years so far, we've yet to see a key/main/playable character of Color in a franchise as big as Mario. Nintendo as a whole could use better representation, but newer franchises like Arms and Splatoon! have made efforts to feature more...
Jesus, that's honestly shocking and not what I would have expected from the community on this site. It's really eye-opening.
Everyone who voted no in that poll should be fucking ashamed.
User Banned (2 Weeks): Dismissing Concerns Around Representation
Demonstrably false. The fact that many heavily Asian coded characters you see them as "white" because they're light skinned says a lot about the way you see the world.
Completely ignoring everything else about my post to try and nitpick this right here shows you care more about defending Nintendo than diversity in gaming.
I used the word prominent as their big characters like Mario, Link and Samus are all white.
But go ahead and tell me how I see the world.
Again with this shit? I thought we had moved past this. MinMin may be light skinned but she's very much Chinese. I wish for a second ppl would stop talking about her as if she was white. She is not. She adds diversity to the roster and her being in wasn't brain dead. She's one of the most popular characters from Arms and Japan's #1 easily.
I'm not defending Nintendo. I can point out something factually wrong with a post while still not defending a multi billion dollar company.
I just realized: Anthony should have been the canon protagonist of Metroid Prime Federation Force, with the other Federation Force members being his squad mates.
(Yes I know this makes no sense chronologically but still, it makes perfect sense tone-wise)
I dunno about Octolings in general, but Marina is definitely coded as black, so if she ever got in, I'd be satisfied
It's so transparent too lol
i ignorantly thought she was white due to her blonde hair. my apologies
Yeah, I like Anthony. It's unfortunate that the game had serious problems and didn't sell well, as he was a cool character and would have been a good candidate for Smash if circumstances were different. I hope that Dread will boost the sales of the Metroid series to a new level so that they would be willing to take a chance to bring him back.
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User Banned (2 Weeks): Dismissing Concerns Around Representation
I find it hard to blame Smash Bros/Sakurai for this, the character choices just… aren't great.
It's an industry problem. Or more, a Japanese industry problem seeing 99% of Smash originates from there.
It's past due we get a black character in Mario, they added Rosalina to the existing group as a mainstay, so they should do a similar thing again with a black character.
Same with their rotating cast RPGs like Fire Emblem and Xenoblade, they should have had some black main characters years ago (Elma is a bit iffy but it's a start), not just party members and side characters.
Or even better make a big new IP with a big push on the level of Splatoon, that simply stars a new black lead. No character creator, just a character to be alongside Mario, Link, Samus etc.
I feel like forcing in more minor characters by having a black character from Fatal Fury/KoF, Tekken, etc, over the leads is not the way to go. We need black leads, and then those black leads in Smash.
I feel for Ultimate the only black character that really would have made sense is Twintelle considering the "ARMS doesn't have a main character" angle they took, but even then she isn't a great sole ARMS rep considering her ARMS are not her arms…
I know Square-Enix is now having a black lead for a new IP out of their Japanese teams with Forspoken, so I hope it's a sign of the landscape over there changing and not just a one off.
It's an industry problem. Or more, a Japanese industry problem seeing 99% of Smash originates from there.
It's past due we get a black character in Mario, they added Rosalina to the existing group as a mainstay, so they should do a similar thing again with a black character.
Same with their rotating cast RPGs like Fire Emblem and Xenoblade, they should have had some black main characters years ago (Elma is a bit iffy but it's a start), not just party members and side characters.
Or even better make a big new IP with a big push on the level of Splatoon, that simply stars a new black lead. No character creator, just a character to be alongside Mario, Link, Samus etc.
I feel like forcing in more minor characters by having a black character from Fatal Fury/KoF, Tekken, etc, over the leads is not the way to go. We need black leads, and then those black leads in Smash.
I feel for Ultimate the only black character that really would have made sense is Twintelle considering the "ARMS doesn't have a main character" angle they took, but even then she isn't a great sole ARMS rep considering her ARMS are not her arms…
I know Square-Enix is now having a black lead for a new IP out of their Japanese teams with Forspoken, so I hope it's a sign of the landscape over there changing and not just a one off.
So much cooler.
Sephiroth is such a boring character. Never liked him and I hope we keep kicking his ass over and over in the future FF7 games.
Don't mention it. Not even sure that's her actual hair either since it's meant to look like noodles (her hat looks like a bowl). Oh well moving on.
How bad the landscape to choose from must be that we're considering a tertiary character I couldn't recognize amongst other background characters, and from the worst Metroid ever.
I couldn't tell you one thing about Anthony other than describe his lame suit and his line "remember me?" That's it.
Even if they really couldn't find a beloved Black character, which they totally can, they could have made the default versions of characters like Inkling or Villager Black.
You're also ignoring all the anti Black parts of Smash that have nothing to do with roster choice.
SSB doesn't hide the fact that it celebrates almost exclusively gaming in Japan, and that's part of why I'm kind of over it. Instead of Lara Croft, Crash, Rayman, Doomguy, etc. you'll get a flavour of the month Fire Emblem sword. It's going to be a while before minority characters make it to SSB.
The more I think about it the more Rodin seems like an interesting choice for a newcomer in the next game.
I'm not the most familiar with the Bayonetta series, but based on an initial glance, it seems like he fits the role I described to a 2 of being a significant recurring supporting character, and with Bayonetta 3 on the horizon, the question might come up of a second Bayonetta character in Smash. He might face competition from Jeanne, but it seems like she could also be an echo fighter, so they might not be fighting for spots. I'm not sure what his chances are, but it's something to think about, I suppose.
I'm not the most familiar with the Bayonetta series, but based on an initial glance, it seems like he fits the role I described to a 2 of being a significant recurring supporting character, and with Bayonetta 3 on the horizon, the question might come up of a second Bayonetta character in Smash. He might face competition from Jeanne, but it seems like she could also be an echo fighter, so they might not be fighting for spots. I'm not sure what his chances are, but it's something to think about, I suppose.
Yeah I was really just talking about the roster.
The stuff they did with spirit battles and things was really tone deaf and gross to see.
Rodin is also a bonus boss in Bayo 1 and 2. Wouldn't be surprised if he were also a bonus boss in 3. Smash has already done a lot more with a lot less.
Yeah then in that case I think he definitely has a really solid resume to be a fighter, especially post-3. He looks like he has a lot of cool abilities and could stand out. Hopefully something works out.
Just chiming in to say that Fire Emblem does have black characters, they are just in the extreme minority and you can sometimes have entire games without one. Obviously they could do better, and even by this thread's standards, almost all of them are too obscure to at all consider for Smash, although you could've gone with Claude over Byleth. Three Houses improved on it somewhat.
Claude
For the similarly named Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War character, see Claud. Claude is a playable character and one of the main protagonists in Fire Emblem: Three Houses and Fire Emblem Warriors: Three Hopes. He possesses a minor Crest of Riegan, and is the presumptive heir to the noble...
fireemblem.fandom.com
Flavia
For the sake of history and all our fallen comrades... We will bring this empire crashing down!Flavia talking to Chrom in Chapter 18 Flavia is a playable character from Fire Emblem Awakening. Like her friendly rival, Basilio, Flavia is one of the Khans of Ferox; the East-Khan. She is a potential...
fireemblem.fandom.com
Dedue
I have heard that you rescued His Highness. Words cannot express my gratitude. Should you ever require my strength, please know that I will hasten to repay this debt.Dedue Dedue is a playable character in Fire Emblem: Three Houses and Fire Emblem Warriors: Three Hopes. He is 18 years old at the...
fireemblem.fandom.com
Basilio
Basilio is a playable character from Fire Emblem Awakening. He is a potential father to Morgan. West-Khan of the country Ferox, Basilio was the reigning Khan for several years behind his prized champion Lon'qu. However, Lon'qu was bested by Marth and became his new champion for the Ferox...
fireemblem.fandom.com
Devdan
Yes, it's true. People often make that mistake. But Danved is definitely not Devdan.Danved Devdan, also known as the alternate persona Danved, is a playable character from Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance and Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn. Devdan is introduced in Chapter 16, where he is forced to work...
fireemblem.fandom.com
Well, they had one.
They have slowly started to darken her skin color back, but yep its a problem.
When they eventually reboot Smash (which will probably happen one day).
The characters I would like to see off the top of my head are:
Elma
Barret
Mr Sandman
Twintelle (but keep MinMin as well, there is room for both)
Rodin
Elma is pretty much the main character of her game and the rest are at least the very if not the most important secondary characters of their respective franchise.
I stopped allowing the "there aren't enough prominent main black Nintendo characters" the moment Pyra and Mythra were added.
If a mediocre sexist-AF JRPG from only a few years ago can get TWO supporting side characters, they can go as "not-prominent" as they want.
If a mediocre sexist-AF JRPG from only a few years ago can get TWO supporting side characters, they can go as "not-prominent" as they want.
As much as I loathe them and Xenoblade 2 on a general level, let's at least be real about things. Pyra and Mythra aren't supporting side characters, they're the deuteragonists of that game. Like the game sucks and the characters are awful, but Pyra and Mythra are about as prominent as you can get as far as XC2 reps go.
It's also worth pointing out that they only really went with Pyra and Mythra out of necessity. They originally wanted to have it be Rex and Pyra as the XB2 rep but technical issues prevented that from happening. If it wasn't for that, it absolutely would of been Rex leading the charge.
I can only imagine what a fucking headache including Impa is going to be. She has a completely different design ethos every single time she appears. The only consistent visual element is the Sheikah eye, and that doesn't even work for her pre-OoT incarnations.
Like are they gonna include OoT Impa? Super-skinny broom lady from Skyward Sword? The shitty little girl version from Hyrule Warriors 2? Grandma Impa from LttP? The super-awesome halberdier ninja from Hyrule Warriors 1?
I don't envy whoever has to make that decision because they're gonna piss someone off.
Why was he banned for this post? This was a thoughtful and constructive response that wasn't dismissive at all. He agreed that the lack of black representation is a problem in games, and presented his own thoughts on how to tackle the issue. I don't entirely agree with him (because while more lead black characters are definitely needed in games, there are also absolutely existing characters that could have and should have been added to this game, which have been expressed in the OP and throughout this thread) but banning him for this post seems… wrong?
Am I missing something here?
But Mario, Link and Samus are also quite old characters. So give them a full change would be harder to do I guess? I mean for diversity it would be great for sure. The only thing I can think off is for example make a Zelda game where Link reincarnates as a PoC for example. Plus these characters and many of the characters in Smash just show how whitewashed gaming was in the early days.
I do agree that more characters should be introduced that are diverse. And I do believe more diversity is being pushed within the industry. Sadly change doesn't happen overnight. But seeing recent games, also from Japanese studios, embracing PoC and more gender choices or non-male leads. I think we are on the right way already.
I do see the problems that OP says in Smash but I also think that, even if they added Twintelle, Rodin, Doc as playable characters, it still wouldn't be enough. But this isn't a Smash or Nintendo problem only this is a problem that is industry wide. Plus it seems that Ultimate really focused on the Ballot which was quite some years ago. At that time diversity within gaming was also much smaller. Thinking out loud if they really wanted to push diversity and focusing on for example black characters or I could have seen;
Rodin, Claude, Twintelle, Doc, Urbosa/Riju, Barret. Can't think of other characters at the moment. But yeah, lets hope that a next collaboration brings more diversity :D.
This isn't true at all though. Like, at all. How many of Nintendo's characters are actually Japanese? Most of them are coded white (blue eyes, blonde/brown hair etc) and don't even have Japanese names. You may have an argument when talking about actual anime, where I do agree that the fallacy is prevalent (although not without merit), but when it comes to Nintendo's own IP that feature humanoid characters there is a distinct lack of ethnic diversity.
OP
OP
Claude is not Black, but rather inspired heavily by Persian & Turkish culture. He's more MENA-coded.Just chiming in to say that Fire Emblem does have black characters, they are just in the extreme minority and you can sometimes have entire games without one. Obviously they could do better, and even by this thread's standards, almost all of them are too obscure to at all consider for Smash, although you could've gone with Claude over Byleth. Three Houses improved on it somewhat.
Claude
For the similarly named Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War character, see Claud. Claude is a playable character and one of the main protagonists in Fire Emblem: Three Houses and Fire Emblem Warriors: Three Hopes. He possesses a minor Crest of Riegan, and is the presumptive heir to the noble...Flavia
For the sake of history and all our fallen comrades... We will bring this empire crashing down!Flavia talking to Chrom in Chapter 18 Flavia is a playable character from Fire Emblem Awakening. Like her friendly rival, Basilio, Flavia is one of the Khans of Ferox; the East-Khan. She is a potential...Dedue
I have heard that you rescued His Highness. Words cannot express my gratitude. Should you ever require my strength, please know that I will hasten to repay this debt.Dedue Dedue is a playable character in Fire Emblem: Three Houses and Fire Emblem Warriors: Three Hopes. He is 18 years old at the...Basilio
Basilio is a playable character from Fire Emblem Awakening. He is a potential father to Morgan. West-Khan of the country Ferox, Basilio was the reigning Khan for several years behind his prized champion Lon'qu. However, Lon'qu was bested by Marth and became his new champion for the Ferox...Devdan
Yes, it's true. People often make that mistake. But Danved is definitely not Devdan.Danved Devdan, also known as the alternate persona Danved, is a playable character from Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance and Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn. Devdan is introduced in Chapter 16, where he is forced to work...
I think Doc Lewis from Punch Out would've been a neat character, Nintendo would have to be a tad creative with the move set - i.e. giving him moves based on classic Punch Out characters (i.e. Great Tiger's teleport, Bald Bull's rush, as a taunt he could fling Don Flamenco's rose)
Do you have a list of those ethnically japanese characters?
Ryu for sure and people are counting him as white here but undoubtedly counts him as Asian in their SF2 is mire diverse argumemts
OP
OP
I guess you can add Snake too as he is part japanese if I remember correctly.
I will have to take a look at the cast again but the majority are either white or monsters/animals.
can we stop adding Elma to these suggestions, it's really awkward that her "true form" is as white as a ghost