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Frame rate or Resolution?

  • Frame rate. Luscious speed.

    Votes: 522 45.7%
  • Resolution. Only the highest quality pixel.

    Votes: 471 41.2%
  • Halo barn

    Votes: 149 13.0%

  • Total voters
    1,142

Beer Monkey

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,308
Honestly, anything above 60fps, I really can't tell the difference at times. So I'll take 1440p 60-144 fps. Anything below 1080p, no thanks.

That's a PC resolution, though. Not really interested in non-integer scaling. 1080p looks way better on a good 4K display than on a 1080p display of identical size because of tighter subpixel density and integer scaling (unless your display and settings suck and you aren't getting integer scaling).

1080p 60fps is a perfect balance. Hopefully next gen consoles will be able to do 4K 60fps as standard.

The bottom line is all of this is very display dependent. On a CRT, 1080p 120fps crushes 1080p 60fps. And OLED might get there with Black Frame Insertion and other engineered improvements to motion blur / motion resolution.
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,667
The Milky Way
I think this poll only confirms the need for the performance/resolution option to be in every game next gen. But hopefully this time with optimised performance modes instead of the unlocked framerate nonsense we usually get this gen.
 

Beer Monkey

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,308
I think this poll only confirms the need for the performance/resolution option to be in every game next gen. But hopefully this time with optimised performance modes instead of the unlocked framerate nonsense we usually get this gen.

I mean, the good news is 1080p/120 is supported by X1X even if only in a few games. There's no reason for all console games to not have 1080p at up to 4x the framerate of 4K next gen. CPU shouldn't be a problem, and the fillrate of 1080p/120 is the same as 4k/30.
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,667
The Milky Way
I mean, the good news is 1080p/120 is supported by X1X even if only in a few games. There's no reason for all console games to not have 1080p at up to 4x the framerate of 4K next gen. CPU shouldn't be a problem, and the fillrate of 1080p/120 is the same as 4k/30.
Xbox One X actually supports 1440p/120hz output. But no games actually output in 120fps. It's a shame because certainly indie platformers etc could support it for sure and it would make a huge difference to how they feel and improve their motion clarity. It's why I simply play them on PC these days instead.
 

TheModestGun

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
3,781
I guess I just don't care about motion that much as long as it's steady and vsynced. If it's not a game that's based around reflexes I might even go 4k30 maxed out graphics though. Multiplayer games (which I rarely play). I'll do 1080p120 though just for the extra responsiveness.
 

TAJ

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
12,446
I'll play an old game in 8K downsampled to 4K before I even think about going past 60fps.
And I've locked some PC games to 30fps, mostly ones that were CPU-limited to below a solid 60.
 

Blade Wolf

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,512
Taiwan
I'm all for frame rate but seriously there's no way I'm ever going to play at 720p.

The lowest I'm willing to go is 900p, and only on my PC monitor, not my TV.
 

dock

Game Designer
Verified
Nov 5, 2017
1,368
I played my first 120hz games today on ipad pro and struggled to tell the difference. I tried third person and horizontal 2D games.

120hz is nice for website scrolling but otherwise it doesn't seem so important. Is there something I'm missing?
 

Ushay

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,347
720p ugh, no thanks. The Switch turned me off that a while ago. We're living in (almost!) 2020 for god's sake. 1080p is the baseline.
 

Iztok

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,134
I played my first 120hz games today on ipad pro and struggled to tell the difference. I tried third person and horizontal 2D games.

120hz is nice for website scrolling but otherwise it doesn't seem so important. Is there something I'm missing?

Did the game actually achieve 120fps or were you just playing ona 120hz screen.
 

Chiramii

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,665
Norway
I love me some high frame rate gaming but I ain't giving up my 1080p resolution to get there. If 1080p means I have to play at sub 100 FPS then so be it.
 

DOTDASHDOT

Helios Abandoned. Atropos Conquered.
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,076
The irony of the poll being, the guys that care about hi res graphics, are only getting 300 lines of motion resolution when moving, reducing those nice pixels into a blurry mess! Sure some TVs have BFI, but even at 1080p 120/144hz you are actually getting a nicer picture vs 4K most of the time.
 

Mars People

Comics Council 2020
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,181
This poll makes me so sad that people apparantly still don't understand the importance of framerate.
How are we still so ignorant?
 

Darkset

Member
Oct 28, 2017
59
720p is way too low these days on a decent sized screen to produce any decent image quality. Perhaps if you run it with a huge amount of AA.

In saying that, multiplayer games are a huge space where a larger frame rate beats visuals any day. Overwatch at 140+ frames makes a huge difference (I still suck though).
 

SlothmanAllen

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,834
...you can buy 1440p 144Hz + monitors and single GPU solutions to power them. Why would you run anything at 720p in 2019?
 

Hwoar

Member
Dec 16, 2017
126
This poll makes me so sad that people apparantly still don't understand the importance of framerate.
How are we still so ignorant?

Well I do, I have a monitor 144hz 1440p which is nice for certain games. Been gaming more on a big TV lately which supports 1440p 120, but for some games going 4k60 is quite a nice choice.

The poll is about 720p though which is just not an option. Also I feel like you kind of get used to playing a game at certain framerates, for example going lower framerate at first feels very laggy, but if you just keep playing it's okay.
 

sugarmonkey

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
515
I picked power. I have a great PC with a 1440p 144 monitor, but I've been spending most of my time in my lounge chair on my one x. I want consoles to put out 60/4K, checkerboard or no. I'm a little frustrated that the new upcoming consoles are hinting at 8k capability. Can we not? Can we instead focus on hitting 4K/60 FPS? I would totally switch to console-only if this was the case instead of what I do now: play my console until the nagging feeling of wanting high frame rates gets to me and I go play on my pc. That is until the nagging feeling of wanting to chill in my La-Z-Boy chair with a controller and HDR on a big screen with a closed, easy to use, and focused ecosystem nags me back.

I'm tired of yo-yo-ing back and forth from my PC to my consoles. I get it - "first world problems". I am an idiot that bought Borderlands 3 on Xbox to be part of the anti EGS zeitgeist, only to purchase the game on EGS when I remembered why I prefer to play FPS games on my PC (high frame rates). This happens way too much. I really am a dumb dumb with poor self control. Please give me a great experience on my console that has high frame rates, and is at or near high settings on my current PC so I can be freed from the wasteful middle I'm in now.
 
Jun 17, 2018
3,244
720p is hot garbage on a large TV. I cannot stand going back to BF4 on XB1 because of how ugly it is.

The only time I can deal with 720p is when I'm playing Switch handheld, looks fine on a smaller screen.
 

hussien-11

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,315
Jordan
Are you speaking about multiplayer games?

No, not really, and i don't care about 120fps that much as i don't play much competitive games. 60fps is more than perfect for single player games.
 

GMM

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,481
1440p at at least 90 FPS with G-Sync is the lowest I'm willing to go, resolution matters as much as high frame rate.
 

Sacrilicious

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,318
No way. I can barely tolerate 720p on Switch but with more capable hardware, 1080p should be the absolute minimum.

At that point, I start prioritizing higher framerates. Not that I really have a choice, my monitor is 1080p/144hz, but I picked one with a higher refresh rate over a higher resolution.
 

Pargon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,997
The irony of the poll being, the guys that care about hi res graphics, are only getting 300 lines of motion resolution when moving, reducing those nice pixels into a blurry mess! Sure some TVs have BFI, but even at 1080p 120/144hz you are actually getting a nicer picture vs 4K most of the time.
Sorry, this just isn't true at all…
You're only getting 150 lines of motion resolution if the game is running at 30 FPS.
Motion resolution is directly linked to frame rate on sample-and-hold displays, and the test pattern used runs at 60 FPS. That's why it doubles to ~600 lines when you enable 120 FPS interpolation. So it's halved if the content is only 30 FPS.

And the test pattern isn't even moving particularly fast. It's slower than the camera movement in any game - so the resolution in a game would actually be lower.

Once you hit 60, the importance of frames goes down and the importance of graphics goes up.
That's only if you have a 60Hz display.
With a 120Hz display - especially one which supports variable refresh rates - 60 is the new 30. A relic of the past.
We finally have official support for 120Hz in displays with HDMI 2.1, and some people are still pushing for 30 FPS.

That's a PC resolution, though. Not really interested in non-integer scaling. 1080p looks way better on a good 4K display than on a 1080p display of identical size because of tighter subpixel density and integer scaling (unless your display and settings suck and you aren't getting integer scaling).
Hardly any televisions support integer scaling, and it took five years of myself and others campaigning about it to convince NVIDIA to add the feature to their drivers. And they really only added it because Intel said it would be a feature in their upcoming GPUs.
Integer scaling works great for 2D games, but results are going to be mixed with 3D games. Most of the time, the extra ~75% resolution from rendering at 1440p instead of 1080p is going to look better.
With the advances in hardware, modern TAA and temporal upsampling techniques used in 3D games, it could be argued that there's far less need for integer scaling than there was five years ago.
I just tried playing some Shadow of the Tomb Raider, and with its internal resolution scale set to 35% with content-adaptive sharpening enabled, it really doesn't look like you'd expect for a "720p" image.

But as I said earlier: the comparison should have been 4K30 vs 1080p120, not 1080p60 vs 720p120.

You simply can't get good TVs in small sizes. OLEDs start at 55 inches and so on
Plus once you're gaming on a 55-65 inch, it's kind of shitty downgrading to like half that size. The difference in picture quality and screen size >>>>>>>> the higher refresh for almost all games. I only use my 1440p 144hz LCD for CS:GO. I'm not seeing how 60 more hz would make RE2 any better when I'd have to play in crummy SDR on a tiny screen.
LG's 2019 OLEDs support 120Hz VRR, with HDR enabled. You don't need a high-end monitor for that any more.

Being at a desk distance is pretty bad for a huge tv, for games I mean. Big ultrawide and big sized displays is good for workstations, work desks, with multiple tickers, and spreadsheets going on for sure. That real estate for games just have your eyes moving all over the place, and all the curve in the world won't make it so you have to move your neck a bit.
The point of an ultrawide display is that it fills your peripheral vision, instead of being a small window in the center of your vision.
This is far more immersive. I also find that it can help with motion sickness, but there are so many factors for that, that I can see it also being worse for some people.
 

dsk1210

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,390
Edinburgh UK
I am actually going through a lot of older games at the moment at 1440p at 120hz rather than 4k at 60hz and it's amazing how silky smooth they feel.

Can't wait till the graphics cards have HDMI 2.1 so I can use my OLED at 4k 120hz.
 

DOTDASHDOT

Helios Abandoned. Atropos Conquered.
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,076
Sorry, this just isn't true at all…
You're only getting 150 lines of motion resolution if the game is running at 30 FPS.
Motion resolution is directly linked to frame rate on sample-and-hold displays, and the test pattern used runs at 60 FPS. That's why it doubles to ~600 lines when you enable 120 FPS interpolation. So it's halved if the content is only 30 FPS.

How is that not true? You've just backed up what I said... I wasn't talking about 30fps, but in some respects 30fps actually has less smearing than 60hz as it's more jerky because of less frames when panning, and on an OLED pixel response is almost instantaneous, so its cleaner between frames, but 60 smears like hell, especially for 2D games, where 4K 60hz becomes almost useless. 120hz hugely benefits here where 600 lines shows a big increase in clarity, even when 300-600 doesn't sound like much, so 1080p 120 will always look better unless you are stood still.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,692
United Kingdom
I like a good balance. 720 is too low these days, it looks rough on a nice big 4k TV, so 1080p 60fps would be better than 720p 120fps for me.

4k 30fps is something I don't have an issue with but a 60fps option with lower resolution (between 1080p and 4k) would be very welcome on all games going into next gen.
 

MrChillaxx

Banned
Jan 13, 2018
334
720p is kinda excessive. 1080p 144hz is ok. 1440p 144hz is even better and the absolute sweet spot. 4K60 for single player games. Actually playing ME Andromed at this resolution and while the game is a space trainwreck at least it looks gorgeous
 

Pargon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,997
How is that not true? You've just backed up what I said... I wasn't talking about 30fps, but in some respects 30fps actually has less smearing than 60hz as it's more jerky because of less frames when panning, and on an OLED pixel response is almost instantaneous, so its cleaner between frames, but 60 smears like hell, especially for 2D games, where 4K 60hz becomes almost useless. 120hz hugely benefits here where 600 lines shows a big increase in clarity, even when 300-600 doesn't sound like much, so 1080p 120 will always look better unless you are stood still.
Sorry, I don't think the tone of my post came across well. It was meant to be read as "it's actually even worse than you thought" because it's dropping to 150 lines rather than 300 lines if the game is 30 FPS.
I'm in agreement that it's stupid to only be focusing on static resolution when motion resolution is directly linked to frame rate on modern displays, and advanced reconstruction techniques can make things look higher resolution than you'd expect when things are static.

Digital Foundry's video on how DLSS has evolved shows this quite well:


(14m15s if it doesn't play at the timestamp)
 

Dennis8K

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,161
What I love about PC is that it allows me to run games at 4K resolution with butter-smooth, cinematic, 24 fps.
 

Stoof

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,764
Switch is the only place I'll play 720p (and sub 720p) anymore. Give me at least 1080p and a stable framerate and we can go from there.
 
Jan 10, 2018
7,207
Tokyo
I never tried 120fps. But I'm positive that 720p/60fps is a far superior experience than 1080p/30fps; whichever the game. I'm speaking only for myself of course.
 

DOTDASHDOT

Helios Abandoned. Atropos Conquered.
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,076
Sorry, I don't think the tone of my post came across well. It was meant to be read as "it's actually even worse than you thought" because it's dropping to 150 lines rather than 300 lines if the game is 30 FPS.
I'm in agreement that it's stupid to only be focusing on static resolution when motion resolution is directly linked to frame rate on modern displays, and advanced reconstruction techniques can make things look higher resolution than you'd expect when things are static.

Digital Foundry's video on how DLSS has evolved shows this quite well:


(14m15s if it doesn't play at the timestamp)


I've got to be honest though and say I'm only a recent convert to high refresh rates, as I did buy a 144hz Chinese import monitor 5 years ago, and it wasn't a great experience, but since my last 2 OLED's I've had my eyes opened to the benefits.

BFI gives good results at 4K 60hz, but you still have the downsides that BFI produces, and that includes no HDR, but with 1080p 120hz you can still use HDR, if your TV/monitor supports it, and that's huge imo.
 

CaviarMeths

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,655
Western Canada
I don't play many big budget AAA games where the difference in image quality between 720p and 1080p really matters much to me.

But I do play an MMO where a lot of information needs to be clearly legible on the screen at all times and not take up too much screen real estate. At 720p, the elements are too large and take up too much space, even when I'm doing anything particularly demanding. God help me if I ever tried to do a 24-man raid in 720p. Wouldn't be able to see shit because of too many UI elements. I've played it at 540p via Remote Play on my Vita while pooping and really the only thing you can even do at that resolution is crafting/gathering or watch story cutscenes.

So yeah, I'm definitely on team 1080p // 60fps for this one.

But since pretty much any desktop PC on the market today can easily run most games at 1080p // 60s anyway, I think the more interesting question is 4K // 30fps vs 1440p // 60fps. And I would take the latter in a heartbeat.
 

Kazooie

Member
Jul 17, 2019
5,014
Framerate is much more important than resolution, definitely. But I do not want unlocked framerate, stability is the most important thing about framerate.
 

Bradford

terminus est
Member
Aug 12, 2018
5,423
Living the CRT life means getting high refresh rates at low res with very little change in visual quality. It's aces. I agree though, OP, Refresh rate over res any day. I'll play things windowed if I can't hit 144.
 

Mars People

Comics Council 2020
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,181
My excitement for next gen is so low becuse its just going to be more 'look at this four kaaaaaay' while the framerates with still be not good enough.
Seriously why should I care aout 4k when the framerate is still at fucking 30!
 

Beer Monkey

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,308
Hardly any televisions support integer scaling, and it took five years of myself and others campaigning about it to convince NVIDIA to add the feature to their drivers. And they really only added it because Intel said it would be a feature in their upcoming GPUs.

100% false. Almost all TVs support integer scaling. You likely mean nearest neighbor. Integer scale is a multiplier, not an algorithm.

1080p is bad on RGB subpixel 1080p sets compared to 4K because the subpixels are too apparent. A tiny white-ish particle of a single pixel size, along with other fine detail like hair and so on, look to be red on one edge and green or blue on the other and so on. That same particle on an LG OLED isn't made of a red, green, and blue subpixel stacked side to side. It's made of 4 red, 4 blue, 4 green, and 4 white subpixels. Those 16 pixels average to something that has a lot less chromatic aberration appearance. And the white subpixels makes whites look a lot more white, to boot.

1080p has never looked better on my 4K OLED. It looks a good deal better than it did on the native 4K 1080p plasma (Pioneer Kuro) that preceded it.

Perhaps your issues are with pentile subpixel arrangements and other sub optimal display design. Hint: Lots of 4K sets out there don't even have enough subpixels for true 4K.

My favorite is when people say 720p looks best on 720p sets. No, 720p never looked best scaled to the native 768p resolution of virtually every flat panel "720p" set ever made. It was just *smaller*. A small 4K set with a full subpixel array would display that 720p better.
 

Z'ard

Member
Mar 5, 2019
1,033
Ukraine
The irony of that comment and a PSVR avatar is too much. PSVR is immersive as hell (in part due to 120fps, even if reprojected frequently) despite having far worse image quality than a great television.
Well yeah, but that's VR. In traditional gaming if i can choose native 4k and 30 fps or 1800p60 in the Last of Us for example - i choose 4k30. It's just better experience for me.