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Spork4000

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
8,522
Shit, am I in the Fox News Comment section all of a sudden? Ya'll need to pass a sociology class or something before posting. I understand being angry after watching the video, but remember we are talking about children as young as 12, CHILDREN. No they aren't "fundamentally broken" or "animals"(holy fuck at this one). There is something deeply and fundamentally wrong with our society for a bunch of children to decide "oh lets go murder an old man," and locking up 12 year olds for their entire lives ain't gonna fix it.

RIP to the victim, condolences to his family, and I hope the kids that tried to stop it come forward, and the ones who perpetrated it are rehabilitated.
 

Arc

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,514
Shit, am I in the Fox News Comment section all of a sudden? Ya'll need to pass a sociology class or something before posting. I understand being angry after watching the video, but remember we are talking about children as young as 12, CHILDREN. No they aren't "fundamentally broken" or "animals"(holy fuck at this one). There is something deeply and fundamentally wrong with our society for a bunch of children to decide "oh lets go murder an old man," and locking up 12 year olds for their entire lives ain't gonna fix it.

RIP to the victim, condolences to his family, and I hope the kids that tried to stop it come forward, and the ones who perpetrated it are rehabilitated.

No, they brutally murdered an elderly man. There's no rehabilitating that.
 

krazen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,155
Gentrified Brooklyn
Shit, am I in the Fox News Comment section all of a sudden? Ya'll need to pass a sociology class or something before posting. I understand being angry after watching the video, but remember we are talking about children as young as 12, CHILDREN. No they aren't "fundamentally broken" or "animals"(holy fuck at this one). There is something deeply and fundamentally wrong with our society for a bunch of children to decide "oh lets go murder an old man," and locking up 12 year olds for their entire lives ain't gonna fix it.

RIP to the victim, condolences to his family, and I hope the kids that tried to stop it come forward, and the ones who perpetrated it are rehabilitated.

Yeah, I mean the language is a but loose and Clint Eastwood in here. While its nice to point fingers at the 'animals' they are the result of marginalization, poverty, an education system left to die for generations, and abusive and neglectful family members.

While they need to be off the street and dealt with legally ASAP, lets remember we made them. Same with your school shooters, etc. These aren't criminal masterminds, but angry kids who didn't see the humanity in an old man. Considering thats some innate biological programming; either a bunch of stereotypical tv trope sociopaths ran into each other in 3rd grade and wanted to team up in the future, or they are basically being Americans.
 

Future Gazer

▲ Legend ▲
The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
4,273
Shit, am I in the Fox News Comment section all of a sudden? Ya'll need to pass a sociology class or something before posting. I understand being angry after watching the video, but remember we are talking about children as young as 12, CHILDREN. No they aren't "fundamentally broken" or "animals"(holy fuck at this one). There is something deeply and fundamentally wrong with our society for a bunch of children to decide "oh lets go murder an old man," and locking up 12 year olds for their entire lives ain't gonna fix it.

RIP to the victim, condolences to his family, and I hope the kids that tried to stop it come forward, and the ones who perpetrated it are rehabilitated.

...society did not push these kids to take the life of an innocent civilian.

The attackers in the video look closer to 14-15, which is plenty fucking old enough to assign them full responsibility for their actions. They are not mindless blobs devoid of agency.
 

Keuja

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,185
They're young so they should be rehabiltated... after they serve an exemplary sentence for gratuitously murdering an elderly man. Being young does not absolve you of all the consequences of your actions.
 

krazen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,155
Gentrified Brooklyn
...society did not push these kids to take the life of an innocent civilian.

The attackers in the video look closer to 14-15, which is plenty fucking old enough to assign them full responsibility for their actions. They are not mindless blobs devoid of agency.


They should bear full responsibly legally and spend years doing time with hopefully some real rehabilitation on the part of the state. But I do wanna elaborate on the mindless blobs devoid of agency comment; they actively made the choice to callously murder an innocent old man, but only one place in the world where these types of crimes for the sake of crimes happen continuously.

I just think we need to stop with the 'damn, those kids, society going into the toilet' when its like wait, we are society, lol. There were seven of them, not one random evil kid.
 
Last edited:

MechaX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,044
$20k and they recorded it so you know they showed someone who would snitch them out for that money

100% the girl who covered her mouth (she didn't even seem like she was laughing or anything, she was flat out still staring at the victim while the others were popping off) will and should snitch on all of them. Out of all of them, she looked like she wanted to be there the absolute least.
 

nel e nel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,134
Shit, am I in the Fox News Comment section all of a sudden? Ya'll need to pass a sociology class or something before posting. I understand being angry after watching the video, but remember we are talking about children as young as 12, CHILDREN. No they aren't "fundamentally broken" or "animals"(holy fuck at this one). There is something deeply and fundamentally wrong with our society for a bunch of children to decide "oh lets go murder an old man," and locking up 12 year olds for their entire lives ain't gonna fix it.

RIP to the victim, condolences to his family, and I hope the kids that tried to stop it come forward, and the ones who perpetrated it are rehabilitated.

Yeah, I mean the language is a but loose and Clint Eastwood in here. While its nice to point fingers at the 'animals' they are the result of marginalization, poverty, an education system left to die for generations, and abusive and neglectful family members.

While they need to be off the street and dealt with legally ASAP, lets remember we made them. Same with your school shooters, etc. These aren't criminal masterminds, but angry kids who didn't see the humanity in an old man. Considering thats some innate biological programming; either a bunch of stereotypical tv trope sociopaths ran into each other in 3rd grade and wanted to team up in the future, or they are basically being Americans.

I appreciate these posts as I was thinking the same thing. Interesting how quickly the dialogue devolved into the typical talking points around 'charge them as adults!' and the like.
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,960
Some people are absolutely beyond redemption. I've got zero sympathy for these kids, and any active participants need to be locked up for a very long time. Remove them from society. This isn't a youthful indiscretion. Someone who plans to kill a poor old man, laughs about it, actually beats and kills the man, all while filming the entire thing has something seriously wrong with them. They're broken and dangerous, and they don't deserve any benefit of the doubt.

I can't get down with this.

I want to be clear: I'm a Black person living in Philly. Everyone I know is talking about this, and everyone I know is aghast at the entire situation. These kids absolutely deserve consequences, legal and lasting consequences, and pretty harsh ones, at that.

But I can't get down with this language (and not to single you out, Addie, you're not the only one in this thread talking like this).

I've watched this video, and there will be no convincing me that these kids set out with the intent to kill a man. I don't even see evidence in this video that these kids thought what was happening would result in this man dying (this does not absolve them, before anybody gets me fucked up). I see one overt aggressor; I see one poor girl who looks horrified from the start of the video until the end. I see the boy in the white shirt who's filming stop filming and look shocked when whatever happens when the girl with the cone runs off-screen happens. And then I see a group of other kids who look a mix of entertained, then complacent, then confused/shocked.

I watch this video, and I see a Lord of the Flies moment in real-time. What I don't see is the same ragtag group of murderers set out with the intent to kill that so many in here are insistent on seeing. And so, I will not use the same language to describe these kids that I would use to describe a ragtag group of murderers set out with the intent of kill. Because THOSE people exist. They're not a fictional archetype. There are cold-blooded killers in this world. We see evidence of this in threads posted on this site damn near weekly. This language should be reserved for them. Because when we use this language, and we start to see these kids (who went too far in some shit they shouldn't have been doing in the first place, which resulted in the death of a man, and yes THEY DESERVE CONSEQUENCES I will repeat) as no different than people who truly do revel and gloat over the idea of killing people, then we create the environment for every kid (and it is not inconsequential that these kids are Black) engaging in any level of illegality to be viewed and thus punished in this same light. We see this same language used to describe the origin of the fear of Black boy shot for stealing a soft drink from a convenience store. This language, used so wantonly, trickles down and becomes the reason it was OK for a bunch of white people to watch a police officer step on the back of a Black girl for acting rowdy at a public pool. The fear and hate that this language spawns becomes the reason why a Black boy in a hoodie, carrying nothing but skittles and an Arizona iced tea, doesn't make it home.

This shit is all connected.

This language is not just inaccurate, but it bears down on the lives of all of these kids. Not just the kids involved in this crime; ALL of These kids. It crushes them down and then reshapes what they see to be the expectations of their lives. It affects the opportunities afforded them. It robs them of the benefit of the doubt so many other kids get when, like most kids, they inevitably do something wrong.

And that's not to trivialize what happened to James Lambert -- his life was stolen by a group of kids who absolutely deserve to be brought to justice despite the hand society has dealt them. But when it comes to These kids, we have to stop stopping at the violence. We have to stop running away from our collective responsibility in how a world was shaped where shit like this can happen, even down to how we talk about it.
 
May 14, 2021
16,731
There really is no rehabilitating them. Not because people can't change, but because society (American) doesn't generally give two shits about rehabilitating anyone. Let alone young black youths. These kids deserve all the hate currently directed at them, and they will deserve their punishment. But they also deserve a chance to change.
 

Fiction

Fanthropologist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,776
Elf Tower, New Mexico
Wouldn't it be great if we had a justice system worth a damn that would actually rehabilitate these kids? Unfortunately what's likely to happen is that all of them will be tried as adults, given 30 to life, and be turned into worse criminals behind bars if they survive it. Even the girl who looks horrified will suffer that fate.

Yeah what they did is horrible, and in a perfect world they would get time but also help. Kids don't do this for reasons, and no one is born evil. Just like I will never support the death penalty, I will always support reform to lead to more rehabilitation, less recidivism, and a less punishment based justice system.
 

HStallion

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
62,262
Going by this thread we should just kill the kids as well. Some of you should probably realize that children are the best chance you have actually rehabilitating people into useful and compassionate members of society. Its when they're adults that it becomes far harder to change the way they think and act. Not going to defend the actions of these kids but yes, we should attempt to rehabilitate them and most everyone else in prison.
 

Hoa

Member
Jun 6, 2018
4,304
There really is no rehabilitating them. Not because people can't change, but because society (American) doesn't generally give two shits about rehabilitating anyone. Let alone young black youths. These kids deserve all the hate currently directed at them, and they will deserve their punishment. But they also deserve a chance to change.

All of this.

But it's really sad to think about for James Lambert. Born in 1948 so he's definitely seen and been through a lot of shit in America, just to be done in like this. Doesn't sit well but we really can't ignore the environment and culture a lot of kids grow up in that lead them to doing shit like this. It's a critical mistake to overlook, otherwise it will continue to happen.
 

krazen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,155
Gentrified Brooklyn
All of this.

But it's really sad to think about for James Lambert. Born in 1948 so he's definitely seen and been through a lot of shit in America, just to be done in like this. Doesn't sit well but we really can't ignore the environment and culture a lot of kids grow up in that lead them to doing shit like this. It's a critical mistake to overlook, otherwise it will continue to happen.

I mean, we are making the same mistakes now though. The thing is these kids murdering an old man for fun is a shocker headline, a shake your head moment, an evil that came out of abstract.

But in 2022 we are setting up a society for an even bigger push towards getting cash out of the public education system, even less social safety nets because 'lazy workers' are being blamed instead of shit wages for labor issues, etc.

Its like when people rage about giving free kids lunches, this is the end result. While its easy to point to the GOP for some of the more callous openly said hottakes, its an indifference that crosses the sociopolitical line when you bring in NIMBY, fair allocation of tax resources towards social work and poverty fighting programs, etc.

Wait till you see the 2035 class of hoodlums.
 

GameAddict411

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,519
It's a matter of time until they find the kids. From the look of it, not all the kids were happy with what's going on. And the reward will definitely incentivize anyone who is remotely aware of who did it.
 

Randog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
177
Lotta people that grew up eating three squares are sitting behind expensive computers in decent air conditioning saying what should or shouldn't happen to these kids (and I'm one of them). It's 3am and these kids are on the street hanging out. You can blame whoever you want for that, but the net effect for the kids is the same.

"Throw them under the jail", "Their lives are ruined", etc... I'm not saying they didn't walk up and murder someone, they did, but as with most things, context is everything. I refuse to believe that a lifetime of incarceration will do anything other than torture these kids into being worse adults. They need stability and safety and all that good shit lots of people grow up with. Will they have a lifetime of making amends? Yeah probably. Should they be able to reach a point where they can understand the gravity of what they did and why those amends are necessary? Yeah probably.
 

Womble

Banned
Apr 15, 2022
345
I don't know what makes you so sure of this. Were you the same person at 13 as at 33? Or if you aren't that old, hell even at 23? I would absolutely hope not.
I wasn't the same person, but I was very well aware of what murder was.

I wouldn't have even talked back to my parents much less kill someone.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,122
Threads that call into question our collective left-leaning attitudes make me wonder what the point of being in a space like this when people are more interested in declaring who is deserving of their almighty judgement vs how we can objectively break cycles of violence. Its really boring seeing threads like this mirror low-quality reactionary stuff you'd catch on social media spaces with lower barriers of entry (Twitter, Facebook, etc). At that stage its like, what's the point of coming here for non-entertainment discussions?
 

Booshka

Banned
May 8, 2018
3,957
Colton, CA
Shit, am I in the Fox News Comment section all of a sudden? Ya'll need to pass a sociology class or something before posting. I understand being angry after watching the video, but remember we are talking about children as young as 12, CHILDREN. No they aren't "fundamentally broken" or "animals"(holy fuck at this one). There is something deeply and fundamentally wrong with our society for a bunch of children to decide "oh lets go murder an old man," and locking up 12 year olds for their entire lives ain't gonna fix it.

RIP to the victim, condolences to his family, and I hope the kids that tried to stop it come forward, and the ones who perpetrated it are rehabilitated.
It's always the same reactionary, "animals, throw em under the jail, irredeemable," etc kind of posts peppered throughout these threads. It's unfortunate to see that people can see a society that breeds this kind of chaos and disorder and still quickly attack the perpetrators and ignore the broader systems and fundamental causes that is leading to a decaying society.

And to lean on the carceral state, call people animals, it's the same shit over and over.
 

Loxley

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,618
Imagine making it all the way to 72 years old only to get killed in a random act of violence by a bunch of teenagers looking for a thrill. What a senseless and tragic loss of life.
 

Hoa

Member
Jun 6, 2018
4,304
I mean, we are making the same mistakes now though. The thing is these kids murdering an old man for fun is a shocker headline, a shake your head moment, an evil that came out of abstract.

But in 2022 we are setting up a society for an even bigger push towards getting cash out of the public education system, even less social safety nets because 'lazy workers' are being blamed instead of shit wages for labor issues, etc.

Its like when people rage about giving free kids lunches, this is the end result. While its easy to point to the GOP for some of the more callous openly said hottakes, its an indifference that crosses the sociopolitical line when you bring in NIMBY, fair allocation of tax resources towards social work and poverty fighting programs, etc.

Wait till you see the 2035 class of hoodlums.

Yea it's depressing to think about because you can see it coming from a mile away. Just want at least one year where we can chip away at these attitudes instead of further sinking into them. Feels like a losing battle but it's better to try than not.
 

DemyxC

Member
Dec 3, 2020
701
All 7 of them didn't kill somebody. I don't even think all 7 should go to jail. Obviously any of them that actually beat him do, but the ones who didn't touch him should be spared (Camera person is probably fucked though). I don't know what sentence the actual attackers should get. I think they'll get juvenile life realistically.
 

¡Hip Hop!

Member
Nov 9, 2017
1,837
$20k reward and a bunch of clear shots of their faces. They're gonna be in cuffs quick.

R.I.P. to Mr. Lambert.
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
Rip to the victim. That's absolutely horrible. Whoever attacked that poor man deserves to be punished.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,215
RIP to the victim. I also feel for how these kid's lives will be ruined as well. I think back to when I was a kid and shit could have gone sideways, ruining my life. Kids get real dumb in a group, and there was a time when we thought it would be fun to throw rocks at passing cars. One of the guys in our group hit a car's window and they easily could have crashed and died. They didn't, and I ended up getting a talking to from a pretty cool cop that got me into the volunteer fire company and away from that group of friends.
 

HardRojo

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,133
Peru
What kind of upbringing did a kid have to be able to do something so terrible and evil…
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
RIP to the victim. I also feel for how these kid's lives will be ruined as well. I think back to when I was a kid and shit could have gone sideways, ruining my life. Kids get real dumb in a group, and there was a time when we thought it would be fun to throw rocks at passing cars. One of the guys in our group hit a car's window and they easily could have crashed and died. They didn't, and I ended up getting a talking to from a pretty cool cop that got me into the volunteer fire company and away from that group of friends.
Did you kill someone in cold blood? This is very, very different.
 

kradical

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,570
Shit, am I in the Fox News Comment section all of a sudden? Ya'll need to pass a sociology class or something before posting. I understand being angry after watching the video, but remember we are talking about children as young as 12, CHILDREN. No they aren't "fundamentally broken" or "animals"(holy fuck at this one). There is something deeply and fundamentally wrong with our society for a bunch of children to decide "oh lets go murder an old man," and locking up 12 year olds for their entire lives ain't gonna fix it.

RIP to the victim, condolences to his family, and I hope the kids that tried to stop it come forward, and the ones who perpetrated it are rehabilitated.

Yup. These kinds of threads on this website are always so grossly myopic and reactionary.
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,960
Did you kill someone in cold blood? This is very, very different.

This is actually not that different at all. The rocks those kids were throwing could have shattered a window or in any other way distracted the driver, causing them to lose control of the car and cause a collision. And if you don't think that exact scenario has occurred, oh, it has:

abcnews.go.com

Teen who threw rock off highway overpass, killing man, sentenced to 3-20 years

The accused ringleader of a group of Michigan teens who killed an automobile passenger by throwing rocks off an overpass was sentenced Tuesday to between three and 20 yea

The major difference here is people continuing to want to see these kids as intentionally setting out to kill a man.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,215
Did you kill someone in cold blood? This is very, very different.

No, but if that car had crashed, I would have. I watched the video, and it looked like they hit him with the cone a whole three times. I don't know for sure, but I don't think the kids thought he was going to die from being hit with a traffic cone a few times. I'm NOT saying it's right, I'm saying that I understand as a kid, you don't think things through to their potentially deadly conclusion.
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
This is actually not that different at all. The rocks those kids were throwing could have shattered a window or in any other way distracted the driver, causing them to lose control of the car and cause a collision. And if you don't think that exact scenario has occurred, oh, it has:

abcnews.go.com

Teen who threw rock off highway overpass, killing man, sentenced to 3-20 years

The accused ringleader of a group of Michigan teens who killed an automobile passenger by throwing rocks off an overpass was sentenced Tuesday to between three and 20 yea

The major difference here is people continuing to want to see these kids as intentionally setting out to kill a man.
If they had killed someone yes, but they didn't and were able to rectify their actions by never taking that chance again. The kids who struck this man and took his life can never give that back to him.
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
No, but if that car had crashed, I would have. I watched the video, and it looked like they hit him with the cone a whole three times. I don't know for sure, but I don't think the kids thought he was going to die from being hit with a traffic cone a few times. I'm NOT saying it's right, I'm saying that I understand as a kid, you don't think things through to their potentially deadly conclusion.
You were lucky you didn't kill somebody, but if you had you should've been prosecuted just like these kids should.
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,960
If they had killed someone yes, but they didn't and were able to rectify their actions by never taking that chance again. The kids who struck this man and took his life can never give that back to him.

Yes, but you're arguing hindsight here. Hindsight doesn't matter to the point.

The point PrivateWHudson was making, if I'm not mistaken, is that he also engaged in dumb, reckless behavior as a kid that could have resulted in someone dying.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
20,698
Y'all didn't even call the Uvalde shooter an animal. Time and time again y'all turn on and dehumanize Black mistakes and criminality in a way you just don't do for other folks. You're not allies.

RIP Mr. Lambert. You didn't deserve what happened to you.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,215
Yes, but you're arguing hindsight here. Hindsight doesn't matter to the point.

The point PrivateWHudson was making, if I'm not mistaken, is that he also engaged in dumb, reckless behavior as a kid that could have resulted in someone dying.

Exactly. I'm looking back and realizing how lucky I was that my dumb actions didn't result in anyone's death, and my life played out in a pretty standard manner. Unlike how these kid's lives will turn out.
 

Isilia

Member
Mar 11, 2019
5,807
US: PA
I'd like to see them get help when they inevitably end up in prison (it's a speed run there for minorities sadly), but I expect them just to be tossed in there and forgotten.
 

Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,330
I can't get down with this.

I want to be clear: I'm a Black person living in Philly. Everyone I know is talking about this, and everyone I know is aghast at the entire situation. These kids absolutely deserve consequences, legal and lasting consequences, and pretty harsh ones, at that.

But I can't get down with this language (and not to single you out, Addie, you're not the only one in this thread talking like this).

I've watched this video, and there will be no convincing me that these kids set out with the intent to kill a man. I don't even see evidence in this video that these kids thought what was happening would result in this man dying (this does not absolve them, before anybody gets me fucked up). I see one overt aggressor; I see one poor girl who looks horrified from the start of the video until the end. I see the boy in the white shirt who's filming stop filming and look shocked when whatever happens when the girl with the cone runs off-screen happens. And then I see a group of other kids who look a mix of entertained, then complacent, then confused/shocked.

I watch this video, and I see a Lord of the Flies moment in real-time. What I don't see is the same ragtag group of murderers set out with the intent to kill that so many in here are insistent on seeing. And so, I will not use the same language to describe these kids that I would use to describe a ragtag group of murderers set out with the intent of kill. Because THOSE people exist. They're not a fictional archetype. There are cold-blooded killers in this world. We see evidence of this in threads posted on this site damn near weekly. This language should be reserved for them. Because when we use this language, and we start to see these kids (who went too far in some shit they shouldn't have been doing in the first place, which resulted in the death of a man, and yes THEY DESERVE CONSEQUENCES I will repeat) as no different than people who truly do revel and gloat over the idea of killing people, then we create the environment for every kid (and it is not inconsequential that these kids are Black) engaging in any level of illegality to be viewed and thus punished in this same light. We see this same language used to describe the origin of the fear of Black boy shot for stealing a soft drink from a convenience store. This language, used so wantonly, trickles down and becomes the reason it was OK for a bunch of white people to watch a police officer step on the back of a Black girl for acting rowdy at a public pool. The fear and hate that this language spawns becomes the reason why a Black boy in a hoodie, carrying nothing but skittles and an Arizona iced tea, doesn't make it home.

This shit is all connected.

This language is not just inaccurate, but it bears down on the lives of all of these kids. Not just the kids involved in this crime; ALL of These kids. It crushes them down and then reshapes what they see to be the expectations of their lives. It affects the opportunities afforded them. It robs them of the benefit of the doubt so many other kids get when, like most kids, they inevitably do something wrong.

And that's not to trivialize what happened to James Lambert -- his life was stolen by a group of kids who absolutely deserve to be brought to justice despite the hand society has dealt them. But when it comes to These kids, we have to stop stopping at the violence. We have to stop running away from our collective responsibility in how a world was shaped where shit like this can happen, even down to how we talk about it.

Lord of the Flies was actually the first thing that went to my mind after watching this.
 
Nov 1, 2017
1,141
I can't get down with this.

I want to be clear: I'm a Black person living in Philly. Everyone I know is talking about this, and everyone I know is aghast at the entire situation. These kids absolutely deserve consequences, legal and lasting consequences, and pretty harsh ones, at that.

But I can't get down with this language (and not to single you out, Addie, you're not the only one in this thread talking like this).

I've watched this video, and there will be no convincing me that these kids set out with the intent to kill a man. I don't even see evidence in this video that these kids thought what was happening would result in this man dying (this does not absolve them, before anybody gets me fucked up). I see one overt aggressor; I see one poor girl who looks horrified from the start of the video until the end. I see the boy in the white shirt who's filming stop filming and look shocked when whatever happens when the girl with the cone runs off-screen happens. And then I see a group of other kids who look a mix of entertained, then complacent, then confused/shocked.

I watch this video, and I see a Lord of the Flies moment in real-time. What I don't see is the same ragtag group of murderers set out with the intent to kill that so many in here are insistent on seeing. And so, I will not use the same language to describe these kids that I would use to describe a ragtag group of murderers set out with the intent of kill. Because THOSE people exist. They're not a fictional archetype. There are cold-blooded killers in this world. We see evidence of this in threads posted on this site damn near weekly. This language should be reserved for them. Because when we use this language, and we start to see these kids (who went too far in some shit they shouldn't have been doing in the first place, which resulted in the death of a man, and yes THEY DESERVE CONSEQUENCES I will repeat) as no different than people who truly do revel and gloat over the idea of killing people, then we create the environment for every kid (and it is not inconsequential that these kids are Black) engaging in any level of illegality to be viewed and thus punished in this same light. We see this same language used to describe the origin of the fear of Black boy shot for stealing a soft drink from a convenience store. This language, used so wantonly, trickles down and becomes the reason it was OK for a bunch of white people to watch a police officer step on the back of a Black girl for acting rowdy at a public pool. The fear and hate that this language spawns becomes the reason why a Black boy in a hoodie, carrying nothing but skittles and an Arizona iced tea, doesn't make it home.

This shit is all connected.

This language is not just inaccurate, but it bears down on the lives of all of these kids. Not just the kids involved in this crime; ALL of These kids. It crushes them down and then reshapes what they see to be the expectations of their lives. It affects the opportunities afforded them. It robs them of the benefit of the doubt so many other kids get when, like most kids, they inevitably do something wrong.

And that's not to trivialize what happened to James Lambert -- his life was stolen by a group of kids who absolutely deserve to be brought to justice despite the hand society has dealt them. But when it comes to These kids, we have to stop stopping at the violence. We have to stop running away from our collective responsibility in how a world was shaped where shit like this can happen, even down to how we talk about it.

Fucking thank you!
 

Woolley

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,420
Who is responsible for these kids? These kids are out at 2:30 in the morning walking around.

Some of the comments in here are kinda gross. We should be looking for ways to rehabilitate people for crimes and not condemn everyone for a life of hardship, especially kids that probably aren't coming from the best environment to grow up in.