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Tygre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,123
Chesire, UK
Luciana Berger has been hounded by antisemites with no meaningful response from the party leadership. If you can shrug and say 'Fuck her' then you might be part of the problem.
Berger had checked out as a Labour MP months ago, presumably to spend her time cooking this shit show up.

There was a very reasonable and understandable anger at her behaviour from her local CLP, which a couple of antisemties bandwagoned on to.

Obviously any antisemetism should be dealt with, but being targeted by antisemites does not make you immune to legitimate criticism.
 

danowat

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,783
All it does is just reinforce what a complete mess politics is right now in this country, the two main parties full of people who don't agree with each other on an issue that will have ramifications for decades.

And there is nothing anyone can do about it.
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
17,132
Sydney
If, as was just stated at the press conference is accurate, and all but one of them are in safe Labour seats this doesn't seem like much of a breakaway and they'll be wiped out at the next election.
 

Council Pop

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,328
User banned (1 week) Antisemitism
Luciana Berger has been hounded by antisemites with no meaningful response from the party leadership. If you can shrug and say 'Fuck her' then you might be part of the problem.

convenient that the Labour MPs who are 'hounded' by antisemites are the right wing ones who hate Corbyn
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
Man... fucking Chuka Umunna. He was supposed to be the chosen one. He could have..should have been Prime Minister, but he shit his pants when the tabloids started ringing all his old friends, flames, and colleagues, then started digging into his past.
Instead of uniting the country, he's about to be part of something that will break it for a generation.

Corbyn's ahead of him on that front.
 

Council Pop

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,328

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
An independent party is going to do nothing to help this country right now. Also, enjoy a continued Tory reign even post-Brexit.

Labour is never going to win anything.
Turns out reforming your party leadership process into a system where your far faction can lock down control is a really bad idea and leads to even more extreme responses as a result.
 

Zaph

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,102
Nearly a month out from Brexit and they think THIS is what they should be spending their time on?
Its utterly pathetic. The biggest socioeconomic upheaval in a generation is rapidly approaching and politicians all over the country are just trying to look busy so in the decades to come they have a cover story when asked what did they do to try and stop Brexit.
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
17,132
Sydney
Right so they admit they can't do anything about Brexit and want clean hands

Which I mean is pretty honest of them I suppose but how does it help anyone?
 

Deleted member 51789

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 9, 2019
3,705
I can completely understand wanting to leave the party due to how they've dealt (or not dealt) with anti-semitism, but for some of the others and their goals (second referendum etc.) the timing couldn't be worse and will likely mean this will backfire hugely.

It also plays massively into the hands of the Tories (centrist parties and groups don't tend to do very well in our two-party system - even the Lib Dems at their peak took less than 10% of all seats available) which is just a dire state of affairs.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
It's
Me neither, it's quite sad that being concerned about antisemitism is seen as some as a right-wing position to take.

Good to hear. Sorry, I just didn't know you well enough to confirm either way, no hard feelings. :)

I agree. UK politics is a shitshow, and I don't know what it's going to take to fix it.

I can completely understand wanting to leave the party due to how they've dealt (or not dealt) with anti-semitism, but for some of the others and their goals (second referendum etc.) the timing couldn't be worse and will likely mean this will backfire hugely.

It also plays massively into the hands of the Tories (centrist parties and groups don't tend to do very well in our two-party system - even the Lib Dems at their peak took less than 10% of all seats available) which is just a dire state of affairs.

I have severe issues with Blair, but didn't he do extremely well while he was leading the Labor party? If he wasn't a war criminal he might have been able to revitalise the party or make this one workable as a leader. Maybe.
 

31GhostsIV

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,299
Well, that's more years of Tory rule for us then. Marvellous, just fucking marvellous. I presume by-elections are happening then?
 

Bobson Dugnutt

Self Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,052
Can't really blame Berger in particular for leaving, she's been treated woefully by leadership and sections of the membership. I don't see what the net gain is for some of the others yet, which is why I have to be amused at the idea that this is a careerist move by people with no principles. They're leaving a party for a movement that is dead in the water if no one from any other party plays ball
 

Sir Hound

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,206
Lots of upset Labour supporters here. I don't see how this wasn't inevitable given Labours drift leftwards and their craven, shameful attitude towards Brexit. I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner.
 

Jam

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,051
Good on them, Corbyn's leadership has been appalling and he is much more concerned about his turn on the throne than the countries wellbeing, the Corbyn of today is a far cry of the backbencher principled Corbyn.

Man... fucking Chuka Umunna. He was supposed to be the chosen one. He could have..should have been Prime Minister, but he shit his pants when the tabloids started ringing all his old friends, flames, and colleagues, then started digging into his past.
Instead of uniting the country, he's about to be part of something that will break it for a generation.

That was absolutely just a "cover story", hence why he hasn't shyed away from major coverage since that leadership contest.

Chuka pulled out because he saw Momentum and the direction the party was going to vote was swinging to Corbyn so pulled out of the contest early because he's young and could bide his time. I absolutely do not believe that pish about 'but but I didn't think the media would put so much pressure on me!!!!'
 

Council Pop

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,328
Me neither, it's quite sad that being concerned about antisemitism is seen as some as a right-wing position to take.

If you're concerned about anti-semitism you should get involved with the antifascist movement, get out on the streets and start talking to people, work in your trade union and fight the rise of the far right in working class workplaces. A 'concern about antisemitism' which consists of nothing more than criticising socialist MPs is no concern at all.

Most of them were in nappies when I joined the Labour Party, that Labour Party I followed from a childhood through to a few years ago is gone.

And you were in nappies when my grandparents joined the Labour party, which is much more similar to the current party than the one which existed from 1983-2015.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
This is basically true. Corbyn's a Brexit supporter representing a party that's about 70/30 in favor of remain. This has happened because when they tried to reform their internal party election mechanisms to be more "open" years back they accidentally did the opposite and made it so a smaller, enthusiastic faction could lock down support, much like how the US Caucus states favor intensity. There was a no confidence vote prior to the snap elections that he lost, but he didn't have to step down because when they had written the rules, the idea of anyone NOT stepping down after one was viewed as a non-possibility.
 

Syntrophos

Member
Nov 25, 2018
177


genuinely feel bad for Berger. She had some horrendous abuse and she wasn't supported enough in that. The rest of the MPs are an utter laughing stock though. Genuinely funny that Chris Leslie thinks he could survive outside of Labour.
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
17,132
Sydney
It doesn't sound like anyone else, whether the Tories, SNP or Lib Dems, are going to join up with them. It sounds like they've slit their own throats here and are gone at the next election.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
This is basically true. Corbyn's a Brexit supporter representing a party that's about 70/30 in favor of remain. This has happened because when they tried to reform their internal party election mechanisms to be more "open" years back they accidentally did the opposite and made it so a smaller, enthusiastic faction could lock down support, much like how the US Caucus states favor intensity. There was a no confidence vote prior to the snap elections that he lost, but he didn't have to step down because when they had written the rules, the idea of anyone NOT stepping down after one was viewed as a non-possibility.

Yup, this is how Corbyn broke the Labor party.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
They're probably thinking the same as the rest of us - both the Tories and Labour suck and neither is really fit to lead the country, yet we have no real alternative.

Doing this a month before Brexit is shameful. Takes away from the issues we have and seems like a "LOOK AT US!" move. Sort Brexit out first within the biggest opposition party to the Tories and then you can split.

All we'll have now for the next 30 days is "Labour in crisis" and both the mainstream media and May/The Tories having free shots at how badly Labour are failing. That's just going to sow apathy and frustration within the general public and the inevitable which is "please just Brexit so we can move on".

If you're concerned about anti-semitism you should get involved with the antifascist movement, get out on the streets and start talking to people, work in your trade union and fight the rise of the war right in working class workplaces. A 'concern about antisemitism' which consists of nothing more than criticising socialist MPs is no concern at all.

Not everyone wants to join Antifa and it is absolutely okay to call out antisemitism in the Labour party irrespective of if someone identifies as a socialist.
 

Zappy

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
3,738
convenient that the Labour MPs who are 'hounded' by antisemites are the right wing ones who hate Corbyn

Have you seen the deluge of racist abuse she receives publicly every day? C'mon man - you can dislike her politics but lets not pretend that Labour hasn't been hijacked by anti-semitic far left activists who have latched onto their leadership. Corbyn isn't IMHO anti-semitic but he's too wedded to the idea of "oppressors vs oppressed" to sufficiently stamp them out of the party.
 

dodo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,997
Lots of upset Labour supporters here. I don't see how this wasn't inevitable given Labours drift leftwards and their craven, shameful attitude towards Brexit. I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner.

oh no not a drift leftwards!!

these MPs are leaving because they know brexit is going to be a shambles no matter what and want to make a show of washing their hands of it.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,855
If you're concerned about anti-semitism you should get involved with the antifascist movement, get out on the streets and start talking to people, work in your trade union and fight the rise of the war right in working class workplaces. A 'concern about antisemitism' which consists of nothing more than criticising socialist MPs is no concern at all.
You know nothing about me and I have no interest in justifying myself to you, but you do not have to be an antifascist campaigner to criticise those who dismiss or engage in antisemitism, regardless of the label they put on their politics.
 

Scousefury

Member
Oct 28, 2017
679
When did Luciana Berger get the idea that i voted for her???? I voted for Labour her name just happened to be next to Labour, if she has quit Labour she no longer has my mandate to represent me in parliament. There must be a way she can be removed as the member for Wavertree before another election right?
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
17,132
Sydney
oh no not a drift leftwards!!

these MPs are leaving because they know brexit is going to be a shambles no matter what and want to make a show of washing their hands of it.

This is the only interpretation that currently makes sense to me. They didn't even have a stated strategy they just said the main political parties were broken over and over again.
 

Ferrasvansen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
512
Azeroth(Scotland)
If you're concerned about anti-semitism you should get involved with the antifascist movement, get out on the streets and start talking to people, work in your trade union and fight the rise of the far right in working class workplaces. A 'concern about antisemitism' which consists of nothing more than criticising socialist MPs is no concern at all.



And you were in nappies when my grandparents joined the Labour party, which is much more similar to the current party than the one which existed from 1983-2015.

Seriously, having my family being a huge part of the Glasgow shipbuilding scene during Labours creation your response is laughable.
 

Deleted member 51789

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 9, 2019
3,705
Good to hear. Sorry, I just didn't know you well enough to confirm either way, no hard feelings. :)

I agree. UK politics is a shitshow, and I don't know what it's going to take to fix it.



I have severe issues with Blair, but didn't he do extremely well while he was leading the Labor party? If he wasn't a war criminal he might have been able to revitalise the party or make this one workable as a leader. Maybe.
Blair tapped into the general voters misgivings with Tory Britain at the time and promised a lot of people-pleasing things (which were generally underbaked when delivered), and the Conservatives during this period were ridiculously ineffectual with a string of poor leaders so never really appealed to the general population.

Even despite the Tories being trash, they were some gaining ground, and I think Labour would have lost in 2010 even if Blair was in charge because Cameron was saying all the right things to sway people to the 'modern' Conservative party and then the financial crash happened.
 

Goodlifr

Member
Nov 6, 2017
1,886
The fact that none of these are calling a by-election means the whole thing is a massive fucking joke.

You got that seat because you were on Corbyn's ticket. If you actually felt differently, you'd call a by-election and let the people decide.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
If you're concerned about anti-semitism you should get involved with the antifascist movement, get out on the streets and start talking to people, work in your trade union and fight the rise of the far right in working class workplaces. A 'concern about antisemitism' which consists of nothing more than criticising socialist MPs is no concern at all.

Those types are the ones keeping Corbyn and his antisemitic friends in power. This is why they need Labor party on board, without it they remain outside the political class and thus, irrelevant. Without Corbyn their leverage over the left slips.

And you were in nappies when my grandparents joined the Labour party, which is much more similar to the current party than the one which existed from 1983-2015.

Was Labor infested with apathy and encouragement of anti semitism and abysmal leadership, too?
 
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Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
Blair tapped into the general voters misgivings with Tory Britain at the time and promised a lot of people-pleasing things (which were generally underbaked when delivered), and the Conservatives during this period were ridiculously ineffectual with a string of poor leaders so never really appealed to the general population.

Even despite the Tories being trash, they were some gaining ground, and I think Labour would have lost in 2010 even if Blair was in charge because Cameron was saying all the right things to sway people to the 'modern' Conservative party and then the financial crash happened.

Shit, that's terrible.