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Jarmel

The Jackrabbit Always Wins
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,338
New York
Of course it isn't an insane amount, but clearly you have to budget somewhere, and it seems the argument is $100k just isn't that much money and it is difficult to survive off of it. So, in that instance, you might want to find something used for $20k. Especially given the fact we are talking New York city, which has fairly good public transportation, no?
Used car at 20k would probably run you about $350 a month. The better option would probably be to lease as your monthly note would be overall lower. Public transportation can also be costly if you're commuting from somewhere like Westchester County as a monthly Amtrak pass is about $300 by itself I believe. 30 day unlimited for a MTA card is $130.

In the above calculation I was giving you $500 a month for general savings plus $5,000 a year towards a 401k. This is so absurd.
$500 a month is absolutely nothing. One major bill could easily knock that out for multiple months. Also $5000 a year towards a 401k is pretty low.
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,963
Just don't call yourself paycheck to paycheck...

No onr is saying 100k is rich... but for the vast majority there's no way it's genuinely paycheck to paycheck

Exactly.

A lot of people need to understand that there's a difference between living paycheck to paycheck and thriving paycheck to paycheck.

Living paycheck to paycheck means that, without the guarantee of my next paycheck, my ability to live within the socially acceptable minimum standard of means would be in peril. I.e. I may not be able to afford my rent, my food, I might have to live with one of my utilities shut off for a few weeks, etc.
 

sacrament

Banned
Dec 16, 2019
2,119
This is thread is wild.

Medical is a thing, having kids is another (all these 1 kid families to make the budget work), millennials lived through the housing bust and a not small % got swallowed up in that, and rising costs of university, coupled with the reality that millennials didn't start at 100k and likely just getting there, and folks are surprised folks could be in huge debt and living with minimal savings...

100k as a single person or maaaaybe with one kid with no day care costs, sure. I'd guess 60% have some combination of medical, kids, college debt, busted mortgages, and what not.

Im sure folks arent always as spend thrift as they could but went through a very similar situation when I was in my 30s (busted mortgage, 3 kids, lay offs). And I lived in WV (eastern panhandle, NOVA). I think it's reasonable to be sensitive about this very just blaming a whole generation.
 

davepoobond

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,621
www.squackle.com
I don't know how to feel about the implication that poor people make bad financial decisions when they have kids while poor.

At least, to me, when I hear that, it sounds like the implication is that poor people should make "good" financial decisions to not have kids?

well, you'd have to operate from the premise that unless you intend to make money off your child, it is a bad financial decision to have a kid. of course, there's more to life than simply finances.

i also wouldn't say a rational financial decision would be to keep an expensive pet that needs expensive surgery if you were considered poor, either.

demographically, lower income brackets have more children than rich people, and this has been known forever.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,017
The average American is fucked in a lot of ways. So what?
You understand as of a couple years ago nearly 40% of the country didn't have any money in savings, none. I bet after the past year and half it is much worse.

I'm trying to get you and others to understand that you are exceptionally privileged compared to what most Americans are going through and you are up in here saying $500 a month for a car is nothing, $500 a month in savings is trash, 5% of my income towards retirement is a joke.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,326
This is thread is wild.

Medical is a thing, having kids is another (all these 1 kid families to make the budget work), millennials lived through the housing bust and a not small % got swallowed up in that, and rising costs of university, coupled with the reality that millennials didn't start at 100k and likely just getting there, and folks are surprised folks could be in huge debt and living with minimal savings...

100k as a single person or maaaaybe with one kid with no day care costs, sure. I'd guess 60% have some combination of medical, kids, college debt, busted mortgages, and what not.

Im sure folks arent always as spend thrift as they could but went through a very similar situation when I was in my 30s (busted mortgage, 3 kids, lay offs). And I lived in WV (eastern panhandle, NOVA). I think it's reasonable to be sensitive about this very just blaming a whole generation.

If this article was 60% of Americans making 100k over are paycheck to paychck, it'd be the exact conversation.

People aren't saying this is a failure of the millennial

But that this is the middle class usurping language of the working poor
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,963
This is thread is wild.

Medical is a thing, having kids is another (all these 1 kid families to make the budget work), millennials lived through the housing bust and a not small % got swallowed up in that, and rising costs of university, coupled with the reality that millennials didn't start at 100k and likely just getting there, and folks are surprised folks could be in huge debt and living with minimal savings...

100k as a single person or maaaaybe with one kid with no day care costs, sure. I'd guess 60% have some combination of medical, kids, college debt, busted mortgages, and what not.

Im sure folks arent always as spend thrift as they could but went through a very similar situation when I was in my 30s (busted mortgage, 3 kids, lay offs). And I lived in WV (eastern panhandle, NOVA). I think it's reasonable to be sensitive about this very just blaming a whole generation.

I don't understand how the data presented in this article is at all representative of an entire generation of people, or why people are trying to assume that it is.

This is about folks making 100k a year. That is not most millennials.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,326
I don't understand how the data presented in this article is at all representative of an entire generation of people, or why people are trying to assume that it is.

This is about folks making 100k a year. That is not most millennials.

I'd love to see a follow up survey that asks these 100k people their opinions on things like affordable housing in their neighbourhoods and shit like that

I know YIMBYs are a thing amongst the young generations, but I want hardline stats.
 

sacrament

Banned
Dec 16, 2019
2,119
If this article was 60% of Americans making 100k over are paycheck to paychck, it'd be the exact conversation.

People aren't saying this is a failure of the millennial

But that this is the middle class usurping language of the working poor

Maybe the middle class, as it evaporates, have become poor too.

Point being things are tough out there, and it's not getting better for anyone.
 

mnemonicj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,649
Honduras
There is absolutely no city in the whole planet where that income is not enough to have a decent life.
If you want to own a house, a car, travel, keep up with the Joneses, etc. then no amount of money will ever be enough.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,326
There's something very dangerous about this.

If we start equating "the poor" to people making 100k a month, we are essentially erasing...well, the poor.

Exactly

Especially when like I say I need to see stats on where these 100k "poors" stand on actual poverty solutions that won't trickle to them
 

Jarmel

The Jackrabbit Always Wins
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,338
New York
There are posts like #27 and #111 for starters.

You understand as of a couple years ago nearly 40% of the country didn't have any money in savings, none. I bet after the past year and half it is much worse.

I'm trying to get you and others to understand that you are exceptionally privileged compared to what most Americans are going through and you are up in here saying $500 a month for a car is nothing, $500 a month in savings is trash, 5% of my income towards retirement is a joke.
Yes. Having no savings is amazingly bad but also also being only able to save $500 is also really bad as well. Both of these things can be true. One serious medical bill for say $5k would fuck over both parties. Hell, I just hell at a CT scan done and that was 3k even with insurance. Relatively of course having $500 set aside is better than $0 but that's also a very bad situation to be in as well.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,017
There are posts like #27 and #111 for starters.


Yes. Having no savings is amazingly bad but also also being only able to save $500 is also really bad as well. Both of these things can be true. One serious medical bill for say $5k would fuck over both parties. Hell, I just hell at a CT scan done and that was 3k even with insurance. Relatively of course having $500 set aside is better than $0 but that's also a very bad situation to be in as well.
No, you are just fundamentally wrong.

A 5k medical bill isn't going to fuck over the person saving $500 a month, it would bankrupt the person not saving though.

If I'm saving 500 a month, I needed to be saving for 10 months to afford this catastrophe. If I'm saving nothing a month, guess what, I now owe more in medical bills than my car is worth. One is a bad situation, the other puts me in a situation where I now lost my job because I cannot get to work.
 

Captain_Vyse

Member
Jun 24, 2020
6,824
Obviously where you live is a big factor. $100,000 is a huge amount in say West Virginia, but not a ton in big cities.
 

Jarmel

The Jackrabbit Always Wins
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,338
New York
No, you are just fundamentally wrong.

A 5k medical bill isn't going to fuck over the person saving $500 a month, it would bankrupt the person not saving though.

If I'm saving 500 a month, I needed to be saving for 10 months to afford this catastrophe. If I'm saving nothing a month, guess what, I now owe more in medical bills than my car is worth.
10 months in which you can't set aside money for any other potential issue. What happens if your car breaks down? What happens if you get temporarily laid off? 10 months is a long time.
This involves you taking living like a king very very literally
That's essentially saying you would be rich. Come on now.
 

Relix

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,223
After discussing this thread with my wife, I feel paycheck to paycheck is pushing it. People may be spending too much on their lifestyles. Lifestyle creep is a reality and people get used to it, something we both try to avoid in my house. Hell we have one car because we don't need anything else and its a 2018 CRV.

Me and My SO are in the mid 100s together. We don't live a luxurious lifestyle but the one thing (that we know is a luxury) we do greatly enjoy is going to restaurants weekly and breweries and things like that. We normally burn through 300 on weekends going out. This is a luxury and one of those cases we can roll back in case of financial woes. We don't go clubbing anymore or even buy expensive clothes. We save 1,5K cash monthly as well, and I put 10% into my 401K. She does the same. Even then we can save and have substantial money for any surprise expenses or travel. What we don't have ? A house. Saving that 20% is tough but even then if we wanna get hit by PMI it's also hard since mortgages around us around insane right now. 400K is the base I swear. We pay 2K in rent and wanted to go up to 2.5K on mortgage and PMI/insurance but that seems impossible so we can't outright buy a house right now which sucks. We can go to fuck middle of nowhere USA (both are fully remote) but we like city life and amenities too much.
 

Freakzilla

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
5,710
Yea that's a bad budget breakdown for NYC. Rather you would at most own 1 car and be paying however much for public transportation. Student loans are way too low though.



Some places in NYC have horrible public transportation and 0 trains nearby. There's no way my wife could drop off the kids in two different places and make it to work on time if she took public transportation. Student debt is a variable. That's how much we pay.


So just so I'm clear you believe the average Millennial making 100k

Lives in NYC, owns 2 cars, is going to school and working enough to make 100k, and both rents and owns a home, all with kids and a spouse


I don't know how you came to that conclusion. Im only giving a breakdown for a family in their 30s living in NYC. I
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,326
That's essentially saying you would be rich. Come on now.

Both cavated they live in very cheap areas of the country.

Look I'm sorry you found two posts that you tok super literally to make some major thesis statement that the narrative in this thread is 100k are rich.

I'm sorry that didn't pan out for you.
 

boi

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,769
Problem is excessive lifestyle. Everybody wants a giant house and the newest cars and tech.

It absolutely baffles me when I see people lining up for food giveways for the poor, while at the same time driving tank-size SUV's in the US. Nobody needs a car like that.

Buy your goods used and select on efficiency. Better for the environment and cheaper.
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,963
Obviously where you live is a big factor. $100,000 is a huge amount in say West Virginia, but not a ton in big cities.

The thing that really isn't established here, as someone born and raised in Los Angeles, is that 100k might not be a "huge" amount of money in that city, but it's enough to live. And quite comfortably, too.

But, if you're comparing your standard of living to that of a social media influencer or reality tv star who's living in Calabasas and flaunting their lifestyle as something attainable for the average person, of course you're going to come out wanting. If anything, I think that is the point of this article.
 

Thebox

Member
Dec 26, 2019
419
There are posts like #27 and #111 for starters.


Yes. Having no savings is amazingly bad but also also being only able to save $500 is also really bad as well. Both of these things can be true. One serious medical bill for say $5k would fuck over both parties. Hell, I just hell at a CT scan done and that was 3k even with insurance. Relatively of course having $500 set aside is better than $0 but that's also a very bad situation to be in as well.
Damn that's alot for a CT after insurance. I guess I should feel fortunate to have a copay of $250 for CTs if done at the hospital I work at. The massive difference in what people pay for insurance and deductibles depending on their employer is crazy.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,017
10 months in which you can't set aside money for any other potential issue. What happens if your car breaks down? What happens if you get temporarily laid off? 10 months is a long time.
Do you notice how you completely ignored how this would have bankrupted the person with no savings, all the while lamenting another potential pitfall that might befall the person saving $500 a month? Then again, the person with no savings won't have to worry about car troubles because they had to sell their car to pay for the first emergency expense.
 

Jarmel

The Jackrabbit Always Wins
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,338
New York
Do you notice how you completely ignored how this would have bankrupted the person with no savings, all the while lamenting another potential pitfall that might befall the person saving $500 a month? Then again, the person with no savings won't have to worry about car troubles because they had to sell their car to pay for the first emergency expense.
No, I didn't. This is you having zero empathy for a person having no safety net for almost an entire year trying to catch up on bills. Yes, the scale and severity would be different but again it's not a good place to be for either of them.
Damn that's alot for a CT after insurance. I guess I should feel fortunate to have a copay of $250 for CTs if done at the hospital I work at. The massive difference in what people pay for insurance and deductibles depending on their employer is crazy.
It's ridiculous how much I have to pay before my insurance kicks in.
 

Dracil

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,437
This thread just sounds so much like the conservative talking points about how poor people don't deserve to have phones, TVs, or consoles to make their shitty lives marginally more bearable but stepped up one level.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,326
This thread just sounds so much like the conservative talking points about how poor people don't deserve to have phones, TVs, or consoles to make their shitty lives marginally more bearable but stepped up one level.

No it doesn't but continue

Go to people making 30k a year and tell them this please.
 

Dracil

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,437
It's literally the same argument about people not living within their means and wasting money on unneeded luxuries
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,963
To cut to the chase, I think most people participating in this discussion can agree that if you're making 100k, in any city in the US, you are not "poor."

So I really think people should think twice before appropriating those arguments. It verges on callous.

We're debating measures of comfort here, when it comes down to it. Not measures of survival.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,326
It's literally the same argument about people not living within their means and wasting money on unneeded luxuries

Sure if you just ignore everything

The Fox News thing was if you have a fridge and a cell phone you're not poor

This is not that.

And that you think it is... is actually fucked up