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Melchiah

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,190
Helsinki, Finland
You got called out for this shit on Beyond3D by the moderators and now you're doing it here. Literally nobody here is saying next gen will have movie CG quality visuals, at least not within the last 15 years. Seriously, cut it out already

The most absurd thing is, that he's apparently an industry veteran in his 50s, and yet he continues to behave like a child. Holding some irrational grudge against consoles, their exclusives, and the recognition they get. The generational shift seems to be particularly threatening to him.
 

GymWolf86

Banned
Nov 10, 2018
4,663
Good first 3 choices.

I will personally put the order and horizon\days gome instead of gears5 and jfo.
 

Gemüsepizza

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,541
Based on these comments, I can't wait to see the movie quality games come Nov 2020.

You won't have to wait this long, if there is a PlayStation meeting in February.

And those PS5 games will *easily* blow everything away we've seen before. Just look at the hardware we will get as new baseline:

- Custom Zen 2 CPU with 8 cores and 16 threads (<- better than my i7!!)
- 16-24 GB high-bandwidth RAM (GDDR6 = 12 times as fast as DDR4)
- Custom Navi GPU with RDNA 2.0 features (<- basically second gen raytracing )
- Custom high-speed SSD (!!)

We will get desktop+ class hardware combined with sweet console stuff like ultra-low APU latency, unified memory and Sony's own low-level raytracing API. Sure, that RTX stuff is nice. But I think when we see the games from Guerilla, Sony Santa Monica or Insomniac, this will be the next step, because those games have been built from the ground up with raytracing/next-gen features in mind.
 

NediarPT88

Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,084
Cute thread. Not really surprising considering the OP though. All of these games run on current gen hardware, they obviously look incredible on PC but the games as a whole were subject to limitations that won't be present next-gen (like the example Cerny gave of Spider-Man swinging speed / edit: and I remember something about last gen where Mass Effect devs complained about not having enough memory for some animations iirc). It's not just about looking better, since the baseline is getting much higher next-gen the bar will be raised in certain aspects of the games (and PCs with considerably better hardware will play those games better obviously).
 
OP
OP
VFX_Veteran

VFX_Veteran

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
1,003
Cute thread. Not really surprising considering the OP though. All of these games run on current gen hardware, they obviously look incredible on PC but the games as a whole were subject to limitations that won't be present next-gen (like the example Cerny gave of Spider-Man swinging speed / edit: and I remember something about last gen where Mass Effect devs complained about not having enough memory for some animations iirc). It's not just about looking better, since the baseline is getting much higher next-gen the bar will be raised in certain aspects of the games (and PCs with considerably better hardware will play those games better obviously).

The PC is the main development platform for nearly every gaming studio. The assets are created based on their dev machines -- not the consoles. They are ported down to the consoles. Development of games don't go from bottom up. It's a top down approach.
 
OP
OP
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Banned
Nov 11, 2017
1,003
You won't have to wait this long, if there is a PlayStation meeting in February.

And those PS5 games will *easily* blow everything away we've seen before. Just look at the hardware we will get as new baseline:

- Custom Zen 2 CPU with 8 cores and 16 threads (<- better than my i7!!)
- 16-24 GB high-bandwidth RAM (GDDR6 = 12 times as fast as DDR4)
- Custom Navi GPU with RDNA 2.0 features (<- basically second gen raytracing )
- Custom high-speed SSD (!!)

We will get desktop+ class hardware combined with sweet console stuff like ultra-low APU latency, unified memory and Sony's own low-level raytracing API. Sure, that RTX stuff is nice. But I think when we see the games from Guerilla, Sony Santa Monica or Insomniac, this will be the next step, because those games have been built from the ground up with raytracing/next-gen features in mind.

Yet again, a Sony boi makes it all about the PS. Yet, no "console warring" here at all. right....
 
OP
OP
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Banned
Nov 11, 2017
1,003
The most absurd thing is, that he's apparently an industry veteran in his 50s, and yet he continues to behave like a child. Holding some irrational grudge against consoles, their exclusives, and the recognition they get. The generational shift seems to be particularly threatening to him.

Go back at the beginning of this thread, and look at all the responses to my original post. How many driveby shitposts do you find? Should I just never post at all because it's going to receive a bunch of backlash simply because it's me? And that's behaving maturely?
 

NediarPT88

Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,084
The PC is the main development platform for nearly every gaming studio. The assets are created based on their dev machines -- not the consoles. They are ported down to the consoles. Development of games don't go from bottom up. It's a top down approach.

When devs are designing games they have to take in account the limitations of PS4/XB1 base hardware. All games in OP did that, next-gen exclusives will not.
 

RivalGT

Member
Dec 13, 2017
6,393
Cant say I agree with any of these, nextgen games will look plenty better than the games listed here. Control has aspects of what I think nextgen games will look like, but over all its looks are far too inconsistent. RDR2 is the best looking game in the list, but R* will have much better looking games nextgen. I get having low expectations, but even this is far too low.
 

Alex840

Member
Oct 31, 2017
5,114
This thread is going to be fun to return to when next gen is actually here. Just like every time a new generation begins, there's going to be a big gulf between the games mentioned in the OP and what PS5/Xbox Infinite games look like.
 
Oct 27, 2017
9,420
I'm not sure what reality some people are in as to what they think next gen consoles will do. I think the op does a pretty good job.
You won't have to wait this long, if there is a PlayStation meeting in February.

And those PS5 games will *easily* blow everything away we've seen before. Just look at the hardware we will get as new baseline:

- Custom Zen 2 CPU with 8 cores and 16 threads (<- better than my i7!!)
- 16-24 GB high-bandwidth RAM (GDDR6 = 12 times as fast as DDR4)
- Custom Navi GPU with RDNA 2.0 features (<- basically second gen raytracing )
- Custom high-speed SSD (!!)

We will get desktop+ class hardware combined with sweet console stuff like ultra-low APU latency, unified memory and Sony's own low-level raytracing API. Sure, that RTX stuff is nice. But I think when we see the games from Guerilla, Sony Santa Monica or Insomniac, this will be the next step, because those games have been built from the ground up with raytracing/next-gen features in mind.
There's no doubt the CPU architecture will be better. But what accounting in your comparison above for 2gz CPUs are done here due to power constraints. Also like this gen there were eight cores in those CPUs as well. Are additional threads going to impact much for gameplay? Because the cores have to be available for what's going on at the time. Then there's also the big question mark is actually how much are these GPUs going to be able to push the new consoles. Where does this actually land? 5700 territory? It seems like the weaker part of these systems are going to be the GPU initially which is going to be good for an upgrade a few years down the road for the mid Gen refreshes. Expectations don't mirror reality IMO.
 

Fahdi

Member
Jun 5, 2018
1,390
Graphically we were already in Next Gen with The Order 1886. Lmao, no wonder it was 5 minutes long.
 

NediarPT88

Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,084
Which games from the OP would not be possible on previous gen if you remove all the graphics intensive features?

Idk, but considering ME devs had problems with hardware limitations for animations (related to memory I think) wouldn't that impact RDR for example which is insane in that regard? And probably all the other games too in some way. One of the things I loved this gen was how awesome the animations look in 3rd person combat games compared to the last for example.

The point is devs have to make concessions with game design as a whole so the games can also run decently in really weak hardware, not just put graphic settings on "super" low with games looking like shit and call it a day lol. I don't really think this is controversial.
 

Seahawk64

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,460
I wouldn't call them next gen but what RDR2 and Gears 5 achieved on a current console is pretty damn impressive.

Definitely the 2 best looking console games this gen.
 

Gemüsepizza

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,541
The PC is the main development platform for nearly every gaming studio. The assets are created based on their dev machines -- not the consoles. They are ported down to the consoles. Development of games don't go from bottom up. It's a top down approach.

What kind of logic is this? Of course they are using PCs to make assets, because that's where the dev tools are running on. What you don't seem to understand, like, at all, is that there is more to videogames than resolution, textures or single graphic effects. Things like the number of enemies, NPCs, world simulation, game systems, level design, what you can see from certain points, asset variety, almost everything is dependant on the power of console hardware. Because that's where the money is for devs.

And only if console hardware gets more powerful, those parameters will also change. Then you will get games with much bigger cities. You will get more complex game simulations and systems. You will get a much wider variety of assets. The whole design of levels will change - where in last gen, you would have seen walls and borders at certain points, now you can see until the horizon. You can increase the speed of the player character, which could open completely new game ideas. You could make him/her jump instantly through multiple portals into completely different worlds. And much, much more. This is all stuff you can not have in current gen games. Yet you are talking nonsense about how some crappy RTX effect or increased resolution makes a current-gen game into a next-gen game.

Yet again, a Sony boi makes it all about the PS. Yet, no "console warring" here at all. right....

Did I say anything negative about other platforms? No, I didn't. Not my fault that you get triggered so easily, lol.
 

Firefly

Member
Jul 10, 2018
8,621
Idk, but considering ME devs had problems with hardware limitations for animations (related to memory I think) wouldn't that impact RDR for example which is insane in that regard? And probably all the other games too in some way. One of the things I loved this gen was how awesome the animations look in 3rd person combat games compared to the last for example.

The point is devs have to make concessions with game design as a whole so the games can also run decently in really weak hardware, not just put graphic settings on "super" low with games looking like shit and call it a day lol. I don't really think this is controversial.
You're not wrong when you talk about design concessions being made for weaker hardware but I don't see anything in games like Fallen Order, Gears 5, Metro Exodus that cannot be done on older gens from a game design standpoint. Even in case of Control we had large scale physics and destruction in Red Faction Guerilla. Yet the games in the OP are decidedly "next gen" compared to PS3/X360 era games.
 
OP
OP
VFX_Veteran

VFX_Veteran

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
1,003
What kind of logic is this? Of course they are using PCs to make assets, because that's where the dev tools are running on. What you don't seem to understand, like, at all, is that there is more to videogames than resolution, textures or single graphic effects. Things like the number of enemies, NPCs, world simulation, game systems, level design, what you can see from certain points, asset variety, almost everything is dependant on the power of console hardware. Because that's where the money is for devs.

More of the same is exactly what you are telling me. Asset variety is clearly possible NOW. Finally, almost everything is dependent on the power of a console for the console user! They are using PCs for more than asset creation. Their game engines run on the PC! They develop shaders on the PC. They use their high end asset creation (i.e. textures) and run it on PC hardware. Their development IDE runs on a PC. Just ask any dev (exclusive or not) and let him go on record.

The money is in the games -- not the hardware as we are clearly seeing.

And only if console hardware gets more powerful, those parameters will also change. Then you will get games with much bigger cities. You will get more complex game simulations and systems. You will get a much wider variety of assets. The whole design of levels will change - where in last gen, you would have seen walls and borders at certain points, now you can see until the horizon. You can increase the speed of the player character. You could make him/her jump instantly through multiple portals into completely different worlds. And much, much more. This is all stuff you can not have in current gen games. Yet you are talking nonsense about how some crappy RTX effect or increased resolution makes a current-gen game into a next-gen game.

So RTX is crap now because it's not on your console? What console do you mainly play on? Will you change your story once the console specs are revealed and every goes crazy over seeing some RT reflections?

Did I say anything negative about other platforms? No, I didn't. Not my fault that you get triggered so easily, lol.

I'm not triggered at all.
 

Melchiah

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,190
Helsinki, Finland
Go back at the beginning of this thread, and look at all the responses to my original post. How many driveby shitposts do you find? Should I just never post at all because it's going to receive a bunch of backlash simply because it's me? And that's behaving maturely?

You can't blame people for not taking your threads seriously when they're made with an agenda in mind, and tend to be just thinly veiled platform warring. People know your history, across three forums, and see that you continue to stick to your bias, even after being banned for that very reason. Change that, and perhaps the responses will change as well.

Case in point...
Yet again, a Sony boi makes it all about the PS. Yet, no "console warring" here at all. right....

That's what it's all about, isn't it? The good fight against the evil consoles, and Sony in particular. There's nothing fanboyish about it at all. /s
 
OP
OP
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Nov 11, 2017
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User Banned (2 Weeks): Trolling over multiple posts. Platform wars. History of similar behavior
You can't blame people for not taking your threads seriously when they're made with an agenda in mind, and tend to be just thinly veiled platform warring. People know your history, across three forums, and see that you continue to stick to your bias, even after being banned for that very reason. Change that, and perhaps the responses will change as well.

My thread wasn't a troll thread at all. Yet, I get trolled for listing games I feel are next-gen already on the PC (obviously the features that consoles are lacking this gen are available on PC). I would love for every platform to have the same hardware specs, but that's just not going to happen. The PC is an agnostic hardware that can be built up with very high end up-to-date hardware at any time. It's a moving target. The consoles stay stagnant for years. There is nothing wrong with mentioning what I think games will look like for next-gen when their hardware specs are much more powerful than what we have now.

Changing my point to what? I have opinions like everyone else does. I'm entitled to them. Why should I change my opinion to cater to people who are rude, don't know me and certainly can't describe what they consider "next-gen" details? I'm willing to engage in healthy conversation if we can put aside the silly behavior. I just shared what I felt looked like a great starting point to next-gen since these games have much more bells and whistles that would cause them not to run on current console hardware. The games coming for next-gen hardware will have some of these same algorithms. Creativity will always change. We welcome that.
 
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Aokiji

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,265
Los Angeles
Everyone has seen right through you lmao. i commend you for doubling down though. one day mods will get tired of moderating you
 

Deleted member 27315

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,795
Those five games will extremely surpassed by the first next-gen games. Especially from Naughty Dog, Guerilla, Rockstar, Santa Monica.
 

Mona

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
26,151
if this is the extent of what even early next gen amounts to, then it has already failed
 

Silencerx98

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,289
The most absurd thing is, that he's apparently an industry veteran in his 50s, and yet he continues to behave like a child. Holding some irrational grudge against consoles, their exclusives, and the recognition they get. The generational shift seems to be particularly threatening to him.
It really is quite something to watch. Even better is that he was hilariously proven wrong by folks on Beyond3D who know what they're talking about in real time 3D rendering and showed he has very limited or even inaccurate information on real time rendering because of his supposed expertise in offline rendering
 

Darkstorne

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,813
England
Gosh, I hope not. What a boring step forward that would be.

If we could get Naughty Dog's pre-downgrade quality visuals at RDR2's open world scale, with huge improvements to lighting through volumetric effects and raytracing, and some huge animation improvements, then I'll be happy. But then non-open-world games would need to be mind-blowingly beautiful.

uncharted-4-a-thiefs-end-screenshot-1.jpg
 
OP
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Nov 11, 2017
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It really is quite something to watch. Even better is that he was hilariously proven wrong by folks on Beyond3D who know what they're talking about in real time 3D rendering and showed he has very limited or even inaccurate information on real time rendering because of his supposed expertise in offline rendering

Are we talking about a thread made 4-5yrs ago? Wow. I didn't know that people followed me that long. I'm impressed! Oh, and I didn't learn anything in those 5yrs btw.
 
OP
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Nov 11, 2017
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Gosh, I hope not. What a boring step forward that would be.

If we could get Naughty Dog's pre-downgrade quality visuals at RDR2's open world scale, with huge improvements to lighting through volumetric effects and raytracing, and some huge animation improvements, then I'll be happy. But then non-open-world games would need to be mind-blowingly beautiful.

uncharted-4-a-thiefs-end-screenshot-1.jpg

Yet another cutscene to show off visuals instead of gameplay... *sigh*
 

leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
15,117
Even if OP has a point they always end up self sabotaging themselves anyway.

A lot of these dismissive and "not even close" posts are suspect too, for Control and RDR2. I don't see the average next gen game looking much better, if at all. The only console open world game that will clearly look way better than RDR2 is probably going to be the one made by Rockstar themselves, and even then there will be aspects of it that look worse.
 

Carn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,911
The Netherlands
Somehow OP believes that "next-gen" means "current high-end", while the opposite is true: Next gen is when the base spec profile gets raised with a generational jump.
 
OP
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Somehow OP believes that "next-gen" means "current high-end", while the opposite is true: Next gen is when the base spec profile gets raised with a generational jump.

No. Next-gen means more powerful hardware. You already have an indication of more powerful hardware now. The consoles will have similar power..You guys are swearing on 2T, 24G RAM, 5700XT w/RT, etc.. etc.. Can I build a PC that's 2X more powerful than that today? Yes. So compare the current console power to a PC that's has the dreamlist components you guys want to see on next-gen console and run the PC games at the highest settings. Boom! You get those visuals above which can't look like that on the current gen consoles. Isn't that "next-gen" quality? It is to me.
 

Fafalada

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,065
Development of games don't go from bottom up. It's a top down approach.
Yeah... not really in the way you imagine it.

The other fun part here is that 99+% of software out there does not target high-end visuals at all (on any platform) and the <1% that do, exist because they are on consoles in the first place.