maybe they were heavily influenced by 90s "attitude" marketing?
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3DRealms announces Graven, an action adventure FPS and spiritual successor to Hexen II (Coming to All Platforms)
- Thread starter E_i
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maybe they were heavily influenced by 90s "attitude" marketing?
Honestly kind of getting sick of 3DR's shtick. Like, in general, the broad appeal to 'old school shooter' is starting to get to that place where it's feeling soulless and more-or-less like an excuse to use crappy technology and / or dated mechanisms to produce low-cost and relatively low-effort cash-ins on nostalgia. I get it: old shooters are fun. But these games are 30, 40 bucks, and they're not doing much else other than plagiarizing their betters. The best among them, arguably, IS Ion Maiden, and it's a good game in spite of itself, but even with its somewhat admirable articulation of competent design via a stone-age piece of technology, this shit is sort of wearing thin: you can't make an appeal on quality just because you've decided to go back to having key-cards that open doors. There *is* a reason Half-Life revolutionized these kinds of games, and the more we see 3DR 'produce' these titles, the more I'm thinking they're losing their way. This is, to say nothing of that business with Ion Maiden / Fury that somehow saw 3DR pulled between left and right in the space in a day or two.
Also, 3DR *probably* is barely paying these devs they work with. Probably peanuts, and then promising they own the IP in exchange for the 'exposure' of having the 3D Realms name swaddling their game (can you imagine in the lead-up to releasing Duke Nukem Forever having a 3D Realms logo appearing before you game being some kind of boon?). 3DR on the other hands makes a reasonable killing since they get to release N games in early access on Steam from M teams and soak in the sales of unfinished content. In the case of IM's dev, I guess I couldn't give two fucks, but assuming Slipgate or KillPixel or any of the other developers aren't toxic fuckfaces (a difficult assumption to make, honestly, considering the company they keep), it's hard to imagine they aren't being taken advantage of even if they are producing stuff that's looking less and less considered.
I dunno. I'm kind of done being on this train. This game looks fine, I guess, sure, but as someone else said the fact that there's a single class means they're just cashing in on Hexen without knowing much about it (oh ho ho! nearest neighbor filtering doth an old-school game maketh y'all. Drop that internal resolution buffer and nail that CRISP low resolution look. Anyone got some weird PS1 aliasing shader I can pop on this bad boy!?).
And of course, to actually *say* something about the 'fans' 3DR has acquired: I hope they're happy with what they got! They appealed to an incredibly abusive fanbase out of fear of 'bending the knee' to libtards, or whatever they want to call us, but in the end they are almost certainly just dogged by the same weirdos on their discords taking shots at trans people. Actually, they have probably moved on to black people, given the times. They chose to surround themselves with a cancer of assholes who are living in the past. I fail to understand why Era feels like giving their games a platform at all, considering the immense, measurably damage 3DR and their working companies have done to trans people.
Also, 3DR *probably* is barely paying these devs they work with. Probably peanuts, and then promising they own the IP in exchange for the 'exposure' of having the 3D Realms name swaddling their game (can you imagine in the lead-up to releasing Duke Nukem Forever having a 3D Realms logo appearing before you game being some kind of boon?). 3DR on the other hands makes a reasonable killing since they get to release N games in early access on Steam from M teams and soak in the sales of unfinished content. In the case of IM's dev, I guess I couldn't give two fucks, but assuming Slipgate or KillPixel or any of the other developers aren't toxic fuckfaces (a difficult assumption to make, honestly, considering the company they keep), it's hard to imagine they aren't being taken advantage of even if they are producing stuff that's looking less and less considered.
I dunno. I'm kind of done being on this train. This game looks fine, I guess, sure, but as someone else said the fact that there's a single class means they're just cashing in on Hexen without knowing much about it (oh ho ho! nearest neighbor filtering doth an old-school game maketh y'all. Drop that internal resolution buffer and nail that CRISP low resolution look. Anyone got some weird PS1 aliasing shader I can pop on this bad boy!?).
And of course, to actually *say* something about the 'fans' 3DR has acquired: I hope they're happy with what they got! They appealed to an incredibly abusive fanbase out of fear of 'bending the knee' to libtards, or whatever they want to call us, but in the end they are almost certainly just dogged by the same weirdos on their discords taking shots at trans people. Actually, they have probably moved on to black people, given the times. They chose to surround themselves with a cancer of assholes who are living in the past. I fail to understand why Era feels like giving their games a platform at all, considering the immense, measurably damage 3DR and their working companies have done to trans people.
Creates a thread to specifically address the controversial devs 3DR has chosen to showcase here - https://www.resetera.com/threads/bigoted-devs-part-of-3d-realms’-realms-deep-show.281351/.
And for those that don't know Slipgate Studios was founded by the VP of 3DR. So this game isn't just being published but essentially co-developed by them.
And for those that don't know Slipgate Studios was founded by the VP of 3DR. So this game isn't just being published but essentially co-developed by them.
See my most recent reply. They are basically the dev side of 3DR.
In regards to Dark1X, I'm going to drop it but do know I think it is important that people know where he stands with this shit if his Digital Foundry videos keep getting linked here. At best he is choosing to overlook bigotry which is an awful look for him but whatever.
OK, this has passed from Wishlisted to Day 1 purchase. I hope they make a big box retail edition.
Feel like any thread regarding 3D Realms should be forced to have a link to that thread in the OP.
Why not just bring it up to him on Twitter instead of posting this here?
many people (myself included) wouldn't be aware of it if it wasn't mentioned here.
What's the point? He's now choosing to support 3DR in spite of knowing about the bigotry. He claimed ignorance to the bigotry in the Ion Maiden console performance thread and everyone here gave him the benefit of the doubt. I just wanted to raise it so people would know when they watch his DF videos. He's choosing to be shitty.
the game is apparently coming to everything, not just switch and PC as the title mentions. the title should probably be changed.
Why yes I have, and I'm glad someone made a thread to discuss the issues.
This topic is about the game though, and typically if the game itself does not include the bigoted views, I still consider a potential purchase of the product.
I skipped out on Iron Fury / Maiden because the product itself had offensive material, and I'll wait to see if there's any material that I find objectionable.
This topic is about the game though, and typically if the game itself does not include the bigoted views, I still consider a potential purchase of the product.
I skipped out on Iron Fury / Maiden because the product itself had offensive material, and I'll wait to see if there's any material that I find objectionable.
Isn't it obvious, these games were made in days were gaming was pure in their eyes. "No politics", no diversity, no minority, just an exclusive club for boys and their toys.
It's a shame the dev chose to associate itself with these people. I love the look of this game but I'm not supporting them.
We need a moderator to add a note about what 3D Realms and their developers are doing.
Also shame on everyone that reads the notes on their track record and still posts about how good this looks and wishlisted it.
This thread made me pissed off at Linneman again. I need to know what everyone else at DF thinks of this.
Also shame on everyone that reads the notes on their track record and still posts about how good this looks and wishlisted it.
This thread made me pissed off at Linneman again. I need to know what everyone else at DF thinks of this.
Doesn't look charming bad, just bad. I don't get it. Was this done on some 90s engine just because?
Is usually how I look at things, I look at the art and not the people behind the art, because virtually everything we have for the past thousands of years would suddenly be burned for their many unsavory views.
I do not believe in cancel culture, I believe in rewarding good behaviour.
Make a game that is offending in nature i.e. homophobic or whatever then yeah I can see why people would boycott that, however if they make a game that has none of that then I don't see the issue of buying said game.
User banned (2 weeks): inflammatory accusation
You are supporting bigotry, thanks dude!
Thanks, expressed it better than I could. I see no reason to skip a good game without problematic content becuase someone on the dev team is shitty, I wouldn't be able to consume any product from any industry ever again if I did that.
If you want people to change in a positive light, then you have to reward good behaviour, deny them when they behave bad etc. Children, adults, doesn't matter I've worked with both and it's not that much different ¬_¬.
If they do bad, don't buy the product, if the product contains none of what they may think inside their head, then I will happily buy the product.
Seperate the art, from the artist.
Isn't it better tp promote someone to change positively?
Couldn't agree more with this statement, if the game itself doesn't contain the offending material, I don't take issue with buying the game. I am a firm believer in separating the art from the artist, and as far as the game looks, it looks pretty good so far, it's on my Steam wishlist.
Let's take someone like Doug TenNapel. A lot of his work that I liked in the past wasn't homophobic, racist, or transphobic. How would me supporting his work in spite of his repugnant views do anything to get him to reflect on the harmfulness of his beliefs? I don't follow your logic.
User Banned (Permanent): Dismissing Concerns of Bigotry and Attacking the Community Over Multiple Posts; Prior Bans for the Same
So his work is homophobic, racist, transphobic now?
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I don't think you're getting what you want. The "Separate the art from the artist" crowd is already here in full force.
Doesn't matter that the publisher works with and openly promotes devs who spout racist/sexist/bigoted views, this one particular developer working with them hasn't yet so it's OK.
We go through this same song and dance every time. THQN ran an AMA on a pedophile website but no one cared because the games they published had none of that.
That's going to be the same here.
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If it wasn't, how would ignoring his beliefs and supporting his work regardless "promote [him] to change positively"? Ignoring it because a creator doesn't explicitly broadcast their beliefs in all of their work does nothing to challenge those harmful beliefs. Only boycotting all of their work--regardless of how sanitized it is--would actually lead to economic harm as a consequence of those beliefs. Taking issue with a bigot showcasing their bigotry in their work, but not taking issue with the bigot's views themselves independent of their work, makes no sense to me.
Also I was refering to a entire team rather than a single person.
For singular artists that lived hundreds or thousands of years ago, can't really change them as they're already dead.
If it's just a single person who's a biggot, then that's a different issue.
However, let's take a example that a singular person who's a biggot but none of his work contains said views.
Society changes based on what they consume, from Radio, TV, games. If the work doesn't contain the problems then it's not damaging to society, or promoting hatred/racism or whatever it is they do. BBC is high on promoting racial diversity in their TV shows, which is important for people that want to identify with someone.
If the person however is a biggot on Social Media etc then feel free to drop them a comment saying why and what you disagree with, then if they continue block them.
People like to think in black and white views, but it's never that simple.
User warned (3-day threadban): inflammatory point of comparison, derailing
Using that line of thought, I want to ask you a question:
Would you be fine buying a videogame that is 100% socially acceptable if it was developed by Adolf Hitler? Assuming he was still alive today and having the same exact role in life as he had during the WWII days.
fml
Let's not compare some people with biggoted views with genocidal murderers...
Their is nuance to many things, but let's not get ridiculous.
Harry Potter does not (on it's surface) espouse the kind of views that JK Rowling does on a daily basis, but the success of that franchise and the wealth it brought her put in into a position of influence that allows her to spread those views that are "damaging to society" pretty widely.
You don't reward people who hold shitty views because they chose not to be shitty that one time. That really should be the default you expect out of someone.
It's unfortunate that these devs have tied themselves to a publisher who openly works with racists and bigots, but the argument that "well this dev hasn't done any of that so why should we punish them" is exactly how 3DRealms will continue to get out of this unscathed, because they know at the end of the day people will choose their own personal enjoyment of a product over any sort of collective stand against them.
Invoking godwin's law isn't going to help the discussion. It's only going to draw "these people aren't as bad as hitler" arguments.
Fake edit: right on cue.
Well, they arn't as bad as hitler because life isn't fucking black and white.
They're bad sure, they should be punished sure, but to compare someone with unnaceptable views, to someone like Hitler is beyond fucking offensive to people that directly/indirectly to those who affected by him and the Nazi regime.
This forum has a reputation for being extremist in it's views and I can see why.
I can't be arsed anymore.
Damn, wasn't even aware of Godwin's law, learned something new today. Looking back, you are absolutely right, Hitler was the first thing that popped inside my mind when suggesting that "what if" scenario... but it was a poor choice, and for that, I apologize.
You've definitely made a much better point with your JK Rowling example, we're in complete agreement there.
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I mean, we have an admin in here doing exactly that, so I wouldn't get my hopes up for tge mod message you propose.
Separating the art from the artist is such a convenient way of not letting morals get in the way of entertainment.