Yeah, they've been super scummy about it. I'm not really sure why people are feeling so bad for them when they sue, make a big post on twitter about NOT LETTING LIES GO and then lying right before that sentence with claiming (yet again) that it's 4k/60 when it never under any circumstance hits 4k (they admit it themselves) and there's areas that struggle to stay above 40fps let alone 60. It's a really bad look and just reminds me of digital homicide with Jim Sterling.Yeah. Them going off the rails and threatening legal action over a simple mistake, all the while disingenuously claiming the XB1X port of their runs at "4k@60fps" makes 34BigThings look far worse to me than even the most cynical view of DF's mishap could make them appear.
How can they get so sanctimonious about "DF lying about resolution" when the rest of DF's very valid criticisms still paint the port in a pretty terrible light?
Yeah, they've been super scummy about it. I'm not really sure why people are feeling so bad for them when they sue, make a big post on twitter about NOT LETTING LIES GO and then lying right before that sentence with claiming (yet again) that it's 4k/60 when it never under any circumstance hits 4k (they admit it themselves) and there's areas that struggle to stay above 40fps let alone 60. It's a really bad look and just reminds me of digital homicide with Jim Sterling.
I'm on their side because they made the second-greatest arcade anti-gravity racing game of all time, sue me for being a fanboy and pissed that this blunder has turned people off from the game.
No I think they're re-analyzing it today. The video will come after they're done.
Mate you're seeing 1 + 1 and coming to the answer of Potato.Yes, I most certainly read every word of your post complaining about those headlines. Despite how you wish to frame your statements, that doesn't always mean others are going to take your desired framing seriously. You keep saying you're just mad about the clickbait headlines, but a direct reading of your words tells a different story.
Here you are specifically complaining about them making too big a deal out of framerate drops on the X version of Fallout 4. Sure, you can frame this as a post concerning a clickbait headline, but does that actually mean anyone's buying that? No, not really. You're just mad they didn't praise the X version of the game enough. Framerate drops are verifiable facts, and you say you want Digital Foundry to be absolutely accurate, but then here you are complaining when they point out something factually accurate that you just don't want pointed out.
Here you are specifically complaining about them making too big a deal out of framerate drops in the X version of Battlefront 2. Again, frame this all day long as your concerned about clickbait headlines, but boy does this smell of classic "why wasn't my console given enough credit" posts we've all seen hundreds of times in Digital Foundry threads.
And once again you're complaining that they're making too big a deal out of framerate drops on the X version of Final Fantasy 15. I'm noticing a pattern here, and it doesn't seem related to clickbait headlines. It's all focused around you feeling like they were too critical of the X version of a game.
In advance i am going to have a slightly more harsh tone towards one user because essentially ignored every argument i brought forward, here - https://www.resetera.com/threads/34bigthings-denies-digital-foundry's-redout-xb1x-analysis-update-digital-foundry-apology.14750/page-8#post-2955399.
Also again apologies for the (smaller) quote tower. Just some opinions in here.. :/
Unlike you, i am going to assume good faith and assume that you likely have your settings for notifications on quotes disabled, and assume that you havent read my (admittely) big quote tower on you. You can find the post link in the top of this one.
But unlike Z, Y (Digital Foundry) fessed up their mistakes. Yet you are still consistently putting blame at them even after this fact. Why are you so staunchly prepared to criticize Digital Foundry, both before, during and after the apologetic statements, but there is hardly any similar response from you when it comes to 34BadThings and their shitty ''PR'' statement?
In your mindset, you see DF do something in bad faith (Misinformation), and as a result, you consider the completely overblown response by 34BadThings to be justified because of it.
I'm not assuming DF operated in bad faith lol. Never once have I said they did. I'm saying that they need to go 1 step further to try and undo the damage they have done. That's it. I'm not arguing in bad faith and am not dishonest at all. You are doing both with your posts.That literally is your whole argument in a nutshell. Because you assume DF to operate on bad faith. And that is exactly why i say you argue in bad faith yourself and are dishonest.
Yet you just complained about their technical facts when it didn't fit you're desired outcome. All I've done is pointed to the things you've said not aligning with your stated goals. You are a walking contradiction in this thread.What I care about is DF, a site that I've read for years, using clickbait and opinion based headlines and articles instead of just using facts and technical talk.
Done on my part, sorry for continuing it.Let's put a pin in this whole "You're a troll!"/"No, I'm not!" thing. It's dragged on far longer than necessary. Cheers.
I'm on their side because they made the second-greatest arcade anti-gravity racing game of all time, sue me for being a fanboy and pissed that this blunder has turned people off from the game.
Precisely.Did it turn people off? The dev's reaction to the whole thing turned me off. It has nothing to do with the quality of the game or the port.
I think the criticisms about it not being 4K are valid, they flat out lied about that, but not the ones about it not being locked 60fps just because they said 60fps. 99%+ of "60fps" games aren't locked at 60fps. 60fps is the target framerate, and the maximum framerate cap.Yeah, they've been super scummy about it. I'm not really sure why people are feeling so bad for them when they sue, make a big post on twitter about NOT LETTING LIES GO and then lying right before that sentence with claiming (yet again) that it's 4k/60 when it never under any circumstance hits 4k (they admit it themselves) and there's areas that struggle to stay above 40fps let alone 60. It's a really bad look and just reminds me of digital homicide with Jim Sterling.
There nothing I resent more than people telling us what we should be doing. "Oh, it should be nothing but pure technical facts with no opinion, personality or fun". Get out of here with that. That is not what the site is. I certainly couldn't survive making dry videos like that.
Also, suggesting that the content is intentionally made to stir up the fanboys is stupidly insulting to me and goes completely against my goals for each video. Reality is contrary - I'm always hoping fanboys avoid and do not comment on my videos and I write my scripts very carefully to minimize that. Very frustrating.
If it's your target framerate you should probably be hitting it most of the time, not having prolonged stretches where it was struggling to stay above 40fps. You can twist it if you like but it is clearly not 4k and clearly not 60fps even though they tweet a day or two ago in relation to this they decided to further double/triple/whatever down on their lie that it now runs on 4k/60. It would mean a lot more if they didn't purposefully lie in retaliation to Digital Foundry incorrectly stating it was only 1080p.I think the criticisms about it not being 4K are valid, they flat out lied about that, but not the ones about it not being locked 60fps just because they said 60fps. 99%+ of "60fps" games aren't locked at 60fps. 60fps is the target framerate, and the maximum framerate cap.
What are your thoughts on the recent trend of "suggestive" headlines of the comparisons? Take the AC:O comparison for example. Putting questions about one "looking much better but does it perform better?", for example, in the heading of a comparison is essentially baiting for clicks IMO.
I don't understand why you think that's baiting. It is designed to intrigue the reader but that's different from clickbait. Actual clickbait is usually meaningless content that doesn't even answer the questions posed or tries to trick the reader. That's not at all what these titles are doing. The answers are always there. It seems more like a magazine headline to me which makes sense since that's Richard's background.I think the criticisms about it not being 4K are valid, they flat out lied about that, but not the ones about it not being locked 60fps just because they said 60fps. 99%+ of "60fps" games aren't locked at 60fps. 60fps is the target framerate, and the maximum framerate cap.
What are your thoughts on the recent trend of "suggestive" headlines of the comparisons? Take the AC:O comparison for example. Putting questions about one "looking much better but does it perform better?", for example, in the heading of a comparison is essentially baiting for clicks IMO.
What are your thoughts on the recent trend of "suggestive" headlines of the comparisons? Take the AC:O comparison for example. Putting questions about one "looking much better but does it perform better?", for example, in the heading of a comparison is essentially baiting for clicks IMO.
There nothing I resent more than people telling us what we should be doing. "Oh, it should be nothing but pure technical facts with no opinion, personality or fun". Get out of here with that. That is not what the site is. I certainly couldn't survive making dry videos like that.
Also, suggesting that the content is intentionally made to stir up the fanboys is stupidly insulting to me and goes completely against my goals for each video. Reality is contrary - I'm always hoping fanboys avoid and do not comment on my videos and I write my scripts very carefully to minimize that. Very frustrating.
This place is mostly fine, honestly. It's more Twitter and YT comments which are pure poison.I'm sorry you guys have to go through this after every video. I see nothing wrong with what you guys do, including the title of the most recent video. It is better on the Pro for the fact that it runs better, so I don't see how anyone can see it as click baiting. I don't believe any of you would try to cater to fanboys since it would alienate anyone genuinely interested in the technical facts presented. People need to detach themselves from their platform of choice and just enjoy the content. Jumping to conclusions with irrational thought does no good for anyone here.
Yeah I bet! Sendin' positive vibes your way John.This place is mostly fine, honestly. It's more Twitter and YT comments which are pure poison.
Many, many, games struggle to stay close to 60fps that are called 60fps titles, and they haven't received the backlash that this game has. Take Gran Turismo 5 as one example, which very rarely ever hit 60fps. It generally operated around the high 40s to low 50s. God of War 3 is another, it generally sat around 30-45 fps but was a 60fps game. Even COD has sat in the low-mid 50s most of the time in some releases IIRC.If it's your target framerate you should probably be hitting it most of the time, not having prolonged stretches where it was struggling to stay above 40fps. You can twist it if you like but it is clearly not 4k and clearly not 60fps even though they tweet a day or two ago in relation to this they decided to further double/triple/whatever down on their lie that it now runs on 4k/60. It would mean a lot more if they didn't purposefully lie in retaliation to Digital Foundry incorrectly stating it was only 1080p.
I don't understand why you think that's baiting. It is designed to intrigue the reader but that's different from clickbait. Actual clickbait is usually meaningless content that doesn't even answer the questions posed or tries to trick the reader. That's not at all what these titles are doing. The answers are always there. It seems more like a magazine headline to me which makes sense since that's Richard's background.
I'm not a big fan of them myself, if I'm honest, but I'm not well versed in what works or doesn't. I still don't think it's clickbait, though, just due to the strength of the content and the INTENT behind it. I don't think it's fair to throw around the clickbait label here as it marginalizes the content within.
Their Twitter said they'll be re-testing today. I'm sure it takes time to make these videos.
This place is mostly fine, honestly. It's more Twitter and YT comments which are pure poison.
I guess we have different definitions of what is clickbait, and that's fine. To me, a title that is trying to draw you in with leading questions or hints of something else is click bait. It is baiting you in to clicking by leaving out some apparently important information or some answer to a question that will surprise you. The articles are a comparison between multiple versions of games, why not have the title just reflect that? Why editorialize it? The answer is to get clicks. You said it's more like a magazine headline, and I see most magazine headlines as clickbait too because that's exactly what they're trying to do.
Anyway thanks for the reply. We don't have to agree on it, just wanted to get your thoughts and explain mine. I bring it up because as your last sentence says, I think some of these headlines have had the unintended effect of marginalizing the content within.
Quite frankly, when it comes to content and "what you should do" etc, I dgaf -- I'll keep watching as long as you keep doing DFRetro because that's what entertains me and at the end of the day, that's what this medium is for and it's what I enjoying doing. If you like making DFRetro then great, I hope you keep doing them, but if not, I understand and hope you do something you enjoy. Life is too short as is -- gotta maximize your enjoyment. Nobody will ever be on their death bed saying "I wish I wouldn't have enjoyed life as much as I did, I should have spent more time being miserable."There nothing I resent more than people telling us what we should be doing. "Oh, it should be nothing but pure technical facts with no opinion, personality or fun". Get out of here with that. That is not what the site is. I certainly couldn't survive making dry videos like that.
Also, suggesting that the content is intentionally made to stir up the fanboys is stupidly insulting to me and goes completely against my goals for each video. Reality is contrary - I'm always hoping fanboys avoid and do not comment on my videos and I write my scripts very carefully to minimize that. Very frustrating.
idk i side with the developer on this. I love DF but they made a mistake, a damaging one. Just updating their article and a "my bad" tweet is not is not enough. I would've expected a demonitized apology video on YouTube by now.
I'm a casual fan of DF and didn't even know about redout till i saw the video. I was genuinely curious about the game when i saw it at first. i like wipeout style games, but after fully watching the video i was turned off, even thought of never supporting the developer ever.
now i don't frequent DFs twitter, and if i wasn't on era i would never know that it was a mistake and would continue to subscribe to the idea that the devs are terrible at what they do. I would've expected a video uploaded to their channel acknowledging their mistake by now to try and erase the damage they caused. Most ppl don't read their articles or follow them on twitter.
Did it turn people off? The dev's reaction to the whole thing turned me off. It has nothing to do with the quality of the game or the port.
There nothing I resent more than people telling us what we should be doing. "Oh, it should be nothing but pure technical facts with no opinion, personality or fun". Get out of here with that. That is not what the site is. I certainly couldn't survive making dry videos like that.
Also, suggesting that the content is intentionally made to stir up the fanboys is stupidly insulting to me and goes completely against my goals for each video. Reality is contrary - I'm always hoping fanboys avoid and do not comment on my videos and I write my scripts very carefully to minimize that. Very frustrating.
How dare you give your opinion on your videos made by you and posted on your channel! You should be 100% neutral on everything because... because... I say so!There nothing I resent more than people telling us what we should be doing. "Oh, it should be nothing but pure technical facts with no opinion, personality or fun". Get out of here with that. That is not what the site is. I certainly couldn't survive making dry videos like that.
Also, suggesting that the content is intentionally made to stir up the fanboys is stupidly insulting to me and goes completely against my goals for each video. Reality is contrary - I'm always hoping fanboys avoid and do not comment on my videos and I write my scripts very carefully to minimize that. Very frustrating.
I agree that this whole mess should not let people doubt about the quality of the game itself. As far as i can see, Redout is an excellent little title and obviously looks like ''quality'' to me. But giving them a pass for their shitty PR statement is just equally damning. All they have done so far is retweeting DF's apology and saying ''They didn't tell the truth''. There is nothing so far that suggests them retracting their original statement and at this point that's just damning aswell.I'm on their side because they made the second-greatest arcade anti-gravity racing game of all time, sue me for being a fanboy and pissed that this blunder has turned people off from the game.
Which is quite ironic since i did criticize DF and i have agreed on numerous occassions that arguments against DF can be made when it comes to titles, aswell as agreeing with NX Gamer's post.I didn't reply because quite frankly there's nothing I can say to you that is going to get through. You say I'm just attacking DF, you're going out of your way to defend them against every possible criticism.
Just because you didnt say it, does not mean that you aren't doing it. What you do is bring a very onesided argument to the table with absolutely disregard for another side. And when you get called out on it by not only me but others aswell, your retort is ''Ill block you''? That does not promote a discussion either way, and it just seems like a childish move to me at that point.I didn't say that DF did something in bad faith, I said they made a mistake and should do everything they can to make up for it. "Everything they can" is IMO more than editing an old article and removing the video that has the incorrect information. IMO they should put out a new article stating that they made a mistake and that they're working with the developer etc. Editing an old article doesn't mean everyone that saw the old article will see the update. You have a much better chance with a new article. I'm not assuming DF operated in bad faith lol. Never once have I said they did. I'm saying that they need to go 1 step further to try and undo the damage they have done. That's it. I'm not arguing in bad faith and am not dishonest at all. You are doing both with your posts. I'm not replying to the 50 other times you've said the same thing, calling me dishonest and "bad faith". You're now on my ignore list so you know why I'm not replying.
That is sadly the luck of the draw. It's up to Twitter and Google to maintain an equal playing field but certainly in the case of YT, their focus is more on ''How can we mess with Youtubers and demonetization'' rather than ''Lets fix the comments.'' Just don't let that get into you John, the only pals you ever need are on ERA. ;)This place is mostly fine, honestly. It's more Twitter and YT comments which are pure poison.
Echoing what i've said here previously John. I would absolutely dislike DF evolving into a factual automatron with generic names like ''Digital Foundry Bot, at your service''. Part of why DF ''works'' is because the people in it have charisma. Heck, some voices are forever etched in my brain as ''part of DF'' at this point.There nothing I resent more than people telling us what we should be doing. "Oh, it should be nothing but pure technical facts with no opinion, personality or fun". Get out of here with that. That is not what the site is. I certainly couldn't survive making dry videos like that.
Also, suggesting that the content is intentionally made to stir up the fanboys is stupidly insulting to me and goes completely against my goals for each video. Reality is contrary - I'm always hoping fanboys avoid and do not comment on my videos and I write my scripts very carefully to minimize that. Very frustrating.
So basically you don't know what clickbait is. Real clickbait is malicious in nature and overly hyperbolic. What DF does isnt malicious in intent, and its not hyperbolic either. It is suggestive, yes, and a bridge can be built regarding whether DF needs certain sensationalistic titles, but i think it goes way too far to think DF is deliberately doing clickbait. They don't.I guess we have different definitions of what is clickbait, and that's fine. To me, a title that is trying to draw you in with leading questions or hints of something else is click bait. It is baiting you in to clicking by leaving out some apparently important information or some answer to a question that will surprise you. The articles are a comparison between multiple versions of games, why not have the title just reflect that? Why editorialize it? The answer is to get clicks. You said it's more like a magazine headline, and I see most magazine headlines as clickbait too because that's exactly what they're trying to do.
Anyway thanks for the reply. We don't have to agree on it, just wanted to get your thoughts and explain mine. I bring it up because as your last sentence says, I think some of these headlines have had the unintended effect of marginalizing the content within.
I will never understand why DF has to make so many sidesteps yet 34BigThings is off the hook.idk i side with the developer on this. I love DF but they made a mistake, a damaging one. Just updating their article and a "my bad" tweet is not is not enough. I would've expected a demonitized apology video on YouTube by now.
Dude, you made me get Quake I and II and i didn't even like Quake in my teen years.This place is mostly fine, honestly. It's more Twitter and YT comments which are pure poison.
I'm on their side because they made the second-greatest arcade anti-gravity racing game of all time, sue me for being a fanboy and pissed that this blunder has turned people off from the game.
I don't understand why you think that's baiting. It is designed to intrigue the reader but that's different from clickbait. Actual clickbait is usually meaningless content that doesn't even answer the questions posed or tries to trick the reader. That's not at all what these titles are doing. The answers are always there. It seems more like a magazine headline to me which makes sense since that's Richard's background.
I'm not a big fan of them myself, if I'm honest, but I'm not well versed in what works or doesn't. I still don't think it's clickbait, though, just due to the strength of the content and the INTENT behind it. I don't think it's fair to throw around the clickbait label here as it marginalizes the content within.
It's posts like this, plus the response of the dev/CEO, that turns me off from playing the "second-greatest anti-gravity racing game of all time" cause I don't give a crap about something not being full 4K.I'm on their side because they made the second-greatest arcade anti-gravity racing game of all time, sue me for being a fanboy and pissed that this blunder has turned people off from the game.
Very frustraiting indeed. You see, many 'DF topics' around here people post like 'WHY WE NEED A TECH SITE OR A TOPIC FOR COMPARISON? ITS JUST ABOUT HAVING FUN'... I mean why wasting time posting in a place you don't like or make a troll about something you don't care?There nothing I resent more than people telling us what we should be doing. "Oh, it should be nothing but pure technical facts with no opinion, personality or fun". Get out of here with that. That is not what the site is. I certainly couldn't survive making dry videos like that.
Also, suggesting that the content is intentionally made to stir up the fanboys is stupidly insulting to me and goes completely against my goals for each video. Reality is contrary - I'm always hoping fanboys avoid and do not comment on my videos and I write my scripts very carefully to minimize that. Very frustrating.
It's posts like this, plus the response of the dev/CEO, that turns me off from playing the "second-greatest anti-gravity racing game of all time" cause I don't give a crap about something not being full 4K.
And apart from that: While Redout is a decent game, whoever ist claiming claiming it to be the second-best, clearly can't have played that many anti-grav racers. Just from 2017, WipeOut Omega and FAST RMX ir simply significantly better.
Both Redout and Fast Racing / Fast RMX have the same score on Metacritic.This is totally aside from the topic, but I have dozens of hours into Fast RMX, and I find this an easy point to argue. Even if you look at the spectrum of professional reviews, there's not any sort of gulf to match your characterization.
Both Redout and Fast Racing / Fast RMX have the same score on Metacritic.
I definitely prefer Redout and it's not even close.
Both Redout and Fast Racing / Fast RMX have the same score on Metacritic.
I definitely prefer Redout and it's not even close.
FAST RMX is definitely not close to Redout IMO. RO has better music, track design (best track design in the genre, imo), controls, and art-style (ALL THE SCREEN-SPACE REFLECTIONS). Unfortunately, RO's performance will probably suck compared to it on Switch.And apart from that: While Redout is a decent game, whoever ist claiming claiming it to be the second-best, clearly can't have played that many anti-grav racers. Just from 2017, WipeOut Omega and FAST RMX ir simply significantly better.
And the wonky framerate on Xbox is much more of a blunder that would turn off people than the 4K fuss.