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Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
So looks like DF made a mistake, and apologized. Good for them for being honest.

I wonder if fans will stop the backlash or double down on it?
Unfortunately, most fans will probably never notice the correction/apology, because people don't generally go to read the same article a second time, unless they notice the tiny text next to the article title before the article falls below the top of the page.
 
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demigod

Member
Nov 2, 2017
48
The user was warned for this post. Don't disingenuously put words in other users' mouths. Dark1x never called you a fanboy, and plagiarize asked you a question. Argue in good faith.
I hate threads like this. Console wars are horrible. I just want to make honest, interesting videos divorced from this nonsense. It's extremely deflating.

So you're calling me an xbox fanboy for agreeing with the dev. I got a newsflash for you, I don't own an xbox.

So you are happy with developer efforts like this X version of Redout? That sort of product is acceptable to you? You're happy for developers to accusing people of lying when they made mistakes?

Maybe put your knives away, because this sure looks like seizing on any mistake DF have made and ignoring all the legitimate criticism the developers are facing for giving people a false idea of what the patch would deliver, delivering a bad X upgrade and counterattacking with false claims rather than taking on board any responsibility for their own part in this.

Now where did i say Im ok with the devs efforts? Don't put stuff in my mouth, you should know better as a moderator.
 

Lys Skygge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,745
Arizona
Sucks that DF made a mistake; shit happens. They admitted their mistake and apologized, and most of all remained professional.

The developers response on the other hand was pretty shitty. You can be pissed while keeping your composure.
 

Dark1x

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
3,530
So you're calling me an xbox fanboy for agreeing with the dev. I got a newsflash for you, I don't own an xbox.

Now where did i say Im ok with the devs efforts? Don't put stuff in my mouth, you should know better as a moderator.
Uhh, I think you quoted the wrong post.
 

plagiarize

Eating crackers
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,511
Cape Cod, MA
It's written in the article itself - I got it from the developers. The game already used dynamic resolution on the standard Xbox One. Granted, they didn't say how often the dynamic scaler kicked in.

[...] it maintains the dynamic resolution used on Xbox One to keep the frame rate up at all times.
That's from the article, not the developers.

If it's based on a direct communication from the developers it hasn't been properly linked. Because right before the section you quoted they say:

As previously announced exclusively to Wccftech, Redout: Lightspeed Edition will support 4K@60FPS without any checkerboard rendering technique, though it maintains the dynamic resolution used on Xbox One to keep the frame rate up at all times.

That link they're attributing the claim to doesn't say anything about dynamic resolution either.

It *DOES* of course claim that the game will run at higher settings (it doesn't) at native 4K (it doesn't).

Maybe they e-mailed WCCF tech and said it was using a dynamic scaler. I don't know. But what you've linked doesn't demonstrate the developers clearly admitting that their promises in August haven't been met.
 

Max Payne

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
500
So looks like DF made a mistake, and apologized. Good for them for being honest.

I wonder if fans will stop the backlash or double down on it?

IMO, 34BigThings don't even deserve an apology. They are still lying to the consumer with that bullshit 4K claim. If that game barely exceeds 1080p resolution, it's not a 4K game. And if that game has troubles maintaining 60fps, it's not a 4K@60FPS game. This is bullshit. They deserve their own medicine imo.
 

Alexious

Executive Editor for Games at Wccftech
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
909
That's from the article, not the developers.

If it's based on a direct communication from the developers it hasn't been properly linked. Because right before the section you quoted they say:



That link they're attributing the claim to doesn't say anything about dynamic resolution either.

It *DOES* of course claim that the game will run at higher settings (it doesn't) at native 4K (it doesn't).

Maybe they e-mailed WCCF tech and said it was using a dynamic scaler. I don't know. But what you've linked doesn't demonstrate the developers clearly admitting that their promises in August haven't been met.

It's not a maybe, I'm the author of the article and I got it from them. That bit was meant to clarify that there was dynamic resolution in place, which they already used on the standard XB1.
And you're right, in the previous interview we had with them they didn't say anything about dynamic resolution, but they did the last time we talked when the patch actually came out. Though again, they didn't give out the specifics of how the dynamic resolution worked.
 

plagiarize

Eating crackers
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,511
Cape Cod, MA
Now where did i say Im ok with the devs efforts? Don't put stuff in my mouth, you should know better as a moderator.

I asked you if you were okay with the developers efforts and said it looked like you were ignoring the valid criticisms aimed at the developers. It still looks like you're doing that to me, since you haven't answered the questions.
 

plagiarize

Eating crackers
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,511
Cape Cod, MA
It's not a maybe, I'm the author of the article and I got it from them. That bit was meant to clarify that there was dynamic resolution in place, which they already used on the standard XB1.
And you're right, in the previous interview we had with them they didn't say anything about dynamic resolution, but they did the last time we talked when the patch actually came out. Though again, they didn't give out the specifics of how the dynamic resolution worked.
Thank you for clarifying this, because I don't think your link did, and didn't realize you'd written the article.

Obviously you're in a privileged position here since the developers clearly told you it was still using dynamic resolution. I still don't think that was clearly demonstrated to everyone else though, and they've continued to be very misleading about that claim based on the patch notes and their comments on twitter.
 

Alexious

Executive Editor for Games at Wccftech
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
909
Thank you for clarifying this, because I don't think your link did, and didn't realize you'd written the article.

Obviously you're in a privileged position here since the developers clearly told you it was still using dynamic resolution. I still don't think that was clearly demonstrated to everyone else though, and they've continued to be very misleading about that claim based on the patch notes and their comments on twitter.

No problem. I am in the process of getting verified, which should help in these situations. And yes, I concur that there were communication missteps along the way here.
 

chubigans

Vertigo Gaming Inc.
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,560
I don't see how anyone could look at all the events here and side with the devs when

-34BigThings declare Digital Foundry fake news unironically
-Calls them liars with inaccurate tech claims
-Doesn't update their own site or twitter to fix their own inaccurate tech claims of scaling percentages, etc.
-Threaten legal action

Whereas

-DF corrects article almost immediately
-A few hours later, pulls video and issues apology on twitter and their original article
-Plans to revisit game on Monday


DF has been nothing but professional this whole time. Good on them, they're handing this way better than I ever could have.
 

demigod

Member
Nov 2, 2017
48
User has been banned (24h): Ignores modpost and has a meltdown, disrupting the thread.
I asked you if you were okay with the developers efforts and said it looked like you were ignoring the valid criticisms aimed at the developers. It still looks like you're doing that to me, since you haven't answered the questions.

You didn't ask questions, you implied that i was ok with the devs efforts. Next time don't be snarky and ill answer your question. You resetera mods are terrible, giving people warnings for not agreeing with you. Get off your high horses. This is probably going to kill my account, back to gaf i guess!
 

OrdinaryPrime

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,042
I don't see how anyone could look at all the events here and side with the devs when

-34BigThings declare Digital Foundry fake news unironically
-Calls them liars with inaccurate tech claims
-Doesn't update their own site or twitter to fix their own inaccurate tech claims of scaling percentages, etc.
-Threaten legal action

Whereas

-DF corrects article almost immediately
-A few hours later, pulls video and issues apology on twitter and their original article
-Plans to revisit game on Monday


DF has been nothing but professional this whole time. Good on them, they're handing this way better than I ever could have.

Indeed. DF apologized. 34BigThings is still lying.

You didn't ask questions, you implied that i was ok with the devs efforts. Next time don't be snarky and ill answer your question. You resetera mods are terrible, giving people warnings for not agreeing with you. Get off your high horses. This is probably going to kill my account, back to gaf i guess!

Yes you are the victim here. Glad that's all out there.
 

Alvis

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,227
Spain
Wait, the game company is still claiming the game runs at 50-90% of 4k when it's actually 25-81%? After threatening legal action towards DF for "lying"? And before that they were claiming the game is "4k60FPS". Which is not even close to being true.

Sigh.
 

Dark1x

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
3,530
You didn't ask questions, you implied that i was ok with the devs efforts. Next time don't be snarky and ill answer your question. You resetera mods are terrible, giving people warnings for not agreeing with you. Get off your high horses. This is probably going to kill my account, back to gaf i guess!
I think you must have misunderstood my post - I was actually agreeing with you that these threads suck. I hope you didn't think I was calling you out on anything because that's not at all the case.
 

Edge

A King's Landing
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,012
Celle, Germany
Ignoring the 1080p claim they made a mistake on the fact of the matter is the game game drops into the mid 40s framerate wise (while PS4 Pro is locked) and the X version still uses the base assets of the One and didnt get the bump in textures like the PS4 Pro.


This.

Claiming DF lied and that it runs Dynamic 4K and 60FPS while it (seems to be?) running in maybe 5% of all cases higher as 1080p and still drops FPS hard without even higher assets is pretty f'n ridiculous.

People should call them liars.
 

Alvis

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,227
Spain
It's not even really possible to call the title of DF's video a lie.
PS4 Pro version uses better assets, runs at 1080p fixed, and locked 60 FPS.
XBX version uses regular assets, runs at 1080p most of the time and sometimes jumps at 81% of 4k, and the framerate is a mess.

So "What's up with Redout on Xbox One X? Better on PS4 Pro!" is a perfectly fine title for this case even after the corrections. You may not agree, but it's a valid opinion. They could literally upload the new corrected video with the same title and [UPDATED] at the end or something.
 

TooBusyLookinGud

Graphics Engineer
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
7,939
California
I don't see how anyone could look at all the events here and side with the devs when

-34BigThings declare Digital Foundry fake news unironically
-Calls them liars with inaccurate tech claims
-Doesn't update their own site or twitter to fix their own inaccurate tech claims of scaling percentages, etc.
-Threaten legal action

Whereas

-DF corrects article almost immediately
-A few hours later, pulls video and issues apology on twitter and their original article
-Plans to revisit game on Monday


DF has been nothing but professional this whole time. Good on them, they're handing this way better than I ever could have.
I think DF has been more professional as well. They made a mistake, owned up to it, corrected the mistake and apologized. What else do can they do?

Meanwhile we have a developer that actually used the term "fake news", which really rubs me the wrong way and hasn't shown an ounce of professionalism. They are the ones lying.

I don't get what people want. They literally owned up to their mistake. Some act like they purposefully make videos to shit on games.
 

Ayrtonsenna84

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
354
If there is a liar here,this is not DF,It is the devs who claimed that the game is running at native 4K with PC Epic Settings. If someone get sued this must be the devs not DF. They Made a mistake May be and apologized but what the devs will do with their false advertising?
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,099
"Fake News" was a trend on social media where lies from trolls were dressed up with cut-and-paste logos to look like reports from respected news organizations, believed by lazy people who can't be bothered to do even one click of research to see that the reports didn't come from the people they were purported to come from.

It was a tactic used recently by Donald Trump, the Republican Party, and their Russian allies, to try and sway opinion prior to their election. When confronted with this, Dirty Donald tried to deflect and project, and claimed that all respected media short of Fox News and Breitbart is Fake News, because he defines Fake News as any news which he dislikes, and he's spent more than a year hammering the idea that he's an innocent victim, and the entire field of journalism is a corrupt institution that's out to destroy him with lies. The Donald Trump version of Fake News is a goddamn disease against the truth.

So which version of "Fake News" does the CEO of 34BigThings ascribe to? I guess it doesn't matter, because it's laughably bad for him to accuse Digital Foundry of either one. But yeah, that CEO's probably been having a really bad weekend, what with that anti-Trump book that just came out, and then this goes and happens.

Edit: ^ lol

You're making assumptions on every aspect of your post...
 

chandoog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,071
If there is a liar here,this is not DF,It is the devs who claimed that the game is running at native 4K with PC Epic Settings. If someone get sued this must be the devs not DF. They Made a mistake May be and apologized but what the devs will do with their false advertising?

and lest it gets forgotten, the CEO of the same studio is on record saying the Pro will run the game at 4K via checker board rendering with PC's max settings too. Yet they have the gall to threaten lawsuits.
 

Bog

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,428
That's the most ridiculous shit I've read in a long time.

Not everything that moves is a fanboy

Has nothing to do with being a fanboy. Of course DF gets excited when there's not parity. I don't think they care which is better. But a video like this moves the needle a hell of a lot more than one where the results are expected. Just look at the clickbaity title they used.
 
EDIT: I apologize in advance for the quote tower down below. I just quoted along the way and i got a bit out of the loop. Sorry fellas.

Sadly the other thread was closed, and this is by no means a drop-in excuse for the Redout devs, but i feel anyone that is going to downplay the burdens developers endure during development is ought to read the tale of Stellar Jockeys and Brigador. That does not mean that their patch is mediocre at best, but even when 34BigThings are clearly in the wrong, one should not ignore the stress one goes through when making a game. It can be found here, and i think it is a really good read. - https://imgur.com/gallery/bGLAQ

NOTE: This does not excuse their paltry response to the DF's mistake.

Exactly. Which is why I think it's very important to reflect this in writing. If there is a possibility for error, it's easy enough to craft a paragraph to reflect that.
Outside of this situation, i do feel as though Digital Foundry has to cut a bit on the quantity of the content being made, and return back to the quality of the content that was made. We previously had a (great!) discussion on how titles sound sensational (I wouldn't call them clickbait as ive seen some users throw down here, because clickbait suggests intent and i doubt Leadbetter is doing it out of intent), and now you have this situation coming through.

Its things like these that i can imagine gives you shivers down the shoes when you work daily to provide very interesting content that gets across a lot of internet places. In that regard, i hope the people at DF realize that things like these are actually not beneficial for the overall image of Digital Foundry.

Of course DF handled it professionally, they got caught with their pants down. They weren't going to come out and have a go at the other guys when they were the ones in the wrong lol.
Digital Foundry has never been one to throw bad faith across others, so for you to imply that in this particular case, they would, suggests you simply want Digital Foundry to be in the dumps. 34BadThings has also been in the wrong, from wrongful marketing to aggressive and shitty written PR statements, but because Digital Foundry acknowledged a mistake, credited VG Tech for the proper analysis, took down their own video and made a good sounding tweet and edited the original article, they somehow still are deserved to be thrown through the mud a little more?

You know, that sounds unnecessary to me. If anything, it should be 34BadThings themselves now to apologize for their crappy PR statement to Digital Foundry, aswell as apologizing to their fans for not delivering on their claims. Even better, they should retract their claim on their website, write a apologizing tweet, and re-do their own PR statement to be more professional.*

*I mean, if Digital Foundry has to make this many steps and its still not good enough for you, then at the very least i can expect 34BadThings to do the same thing for their situation, right? Assuming good faith and all..

DF threw this game and developer to the wolves that have been starving for anything that can be used to say that something on PlayStation is better than it is on the X.
And you deny that you are trying to turn this into good ol console wars, right? Its profoundly unfounded statements like these that exactly do just that.

They've been getting increasing clickbaity with their titles and articles, they know what they're doing. I'm not saying they got the resolution wrong on purpose, but they played what they thought was a problem to get maximum exposure and reactions.
Ugh, here we go again.. This has been explained before by Dark, and ive had a good talk with him over PM - Consider doing so yourself, before suggesting intent on something like ''clickbait'' (which it isnt, by the way.).

(Oh, and if you are still wondering why i said that you are arguing in bad faith, this is why.)

The developers and CEO have every right to be pissed. They got called "lazy Devs" by a respected and much loved publication based on incorrect facts.
DF didnt tell them ''lazy devs'', the toxic users that are around not only DF but literally every gaming outlet out there did that. Its also a profoundly dumb argument to make anyways, see the above link for why.

They absolutely have lost reputation and sales purely based on that DF article, even if their CEO said nothing. People saw 1080p and noped out of it, abusing the Devs as they left.
How about 34BadThings's aggressive and nonsensical PR statements towards DF calling them ''liars''? Is that also not damaging an image, in this case DF?
Because DF went the full monty and apologized. 34BadThings has yet to do anything. So in this case, their statements are still damaging Digital Foundry as we speak. Why are you not calling that out? Because you see, that makes your whole narrative so strange for me. Digital Foundry essentially has to go above and beyond to unfuck their ''mistake'' but 34BadThings is essentially off the hook for theirs. And that is nonsensical to me.

Both parties were in the wrong, one party admitted the fuck up. You still want them to pay their dues even more, but the other party has not even made a hint towards an apology as of yet. If you want to rightfully call someone out, dont call out the party that took responsibility for their actions.

Adding an update to the top of an article is meaningless. The very large majority of an articles hits come in in the hours after the article hits. People that read it aren't going to go back and read it again to see the updated text lol.
They also made a tweet and removed the video from Youtube. Not sure why you are so focussed on the update on top of an article. Usually they only do just that. Redactions usually appear at the bottom so the fact that DF always does them at the top so people can read them instantly is already commendable.

That's why posting an update and removing a video isn't good enough - it doesn't undo the views and tarnished reputation. They need to put out a new article on their front page that people will see, otherwise they're just pissing in the wind and saying "hey look we tried".
And throughout this you still arent faulting 34BadThings for anything. You do understand that you come across as bringing a very onesided argument to the table, right?

Bad faith posting? Get out of here with that rubbish.
No, you get out of here with this onedimensional mindset that even after admitting fault, Digital Foundry still has to burn and somehow the developer is off the hook entirely. That mindset is what's ''rubbish''.

DF stuffed up, have admitted stuffing up, so they need to make it right.
And they did, by doing much more than actually was necessary anyway. Like i said, it should be 34BadThings themselves now to apologize for their crappy PR statement to Digital Foundry, aswell as apologizing to their fans for not delivering on their claims. Even better, they should retract their claim on their website, write a apologizing tweet, and re-do their own PR statement to be more professional.

And I see you constantly defending DF by quoting dozens of members because of an obvious mistake by DF which results in gamers calling developers "lazy".
Digital Foundry isnt responsible for the way their fanbase, or some of the users reading DF, interpret their statements. The fact 34BadThings holds DF responsible for that is just wrong.

How is saying both parties are in the wrong shifting blame? DF were wrong, they've apologised maybe the CEO should do the same for accusing them of lying and threatening behavior.
I absolutely wish that would happen. This whole ordeal could have been avoided if 34BadThings just wrote them a PM stating that ''it might be that your figures are not exactly correct, as we have reported different figures. Can you please recheck if your reportings are correct?'' and be done with it.

Anti Xbox conspiracy? There's no conspiracy here. There is a massive group of people, even on this forum, that want to see X versions be worse than Pro versions.
So why are you giving air to this supposed ''massive group'' of people, when its wholly irrelevant to the discussion? And if it somehow was relevant, do you literally have posts that say ''I want to see the Xbox One X version perform worse than the Pro?''

It literally does not matter in a playing field where both consoles pretty much output the same experience. Throwing up this kind of retort is playing into a console war narrative - A narrative you yourself have claimed you arent pushing.

The Titanfall 2 DF thread showed that, the Battlefront 2 one proves it even better ("OMG Pro versions frame rate is better by 1fps every 7 minutes even though it's running at half the resolution with worse textures, X sucks pro is a beast!!!!" and so on for a dozen pages). Denying this is lying to yoursel.
The fact you give such posts enough weight that they play an influence in your argument is concerning. Those cites are from pointless posts and i find it amazing you took them seriously enough to cite even.

I didn't say DF intentionally got it wrong to make out like Xbox is worse, I said that they pandered to that crowd with the clickbait title when in their partially incorrect findings they came to that conclusion.
So really, they just slipped up promote a what you constitute as a ''clickbait'' title? Do you even know what clickbait is? At best, there has been an instance where you could cast doubt on a title that sounded sensationalistic. Pure clickbait is done out of intent. What DF does with its titles might be more leaning towards sensationalism then towards pure clickbait.

I'm saying that DF went the clickbait title route after determining that the X version ran at 1080p as well as having the other issues because that's what they thought will get the most hits. I'd say they were right too.
Clickbait is something different then what you think is at play here.

Is the game 1080p all the time? No, so DF are 100% wrong on that. Nothing else was disputed by the developer. Why are you trying to blame the developer for X when we are discussing Y and only Y?
Because Y only has come to light because of X's provocative, and not well thought-out ''PR'' statement. Y has admitted that they were wrong and went above and beyond to correct itself, whilst X has not done anything so far. And somehow, you are surprised that X is called out on this, even before Y admitted they were wrong?

You could say the same thing without putting in half-threats, its not that hard either.

and they should do more than edit an old article and write a tweet to correct it.
No, they dont have to. At the very least then should 34BadThings do an equal amount of things to unfuck their PR statement.

They are doing more than that. They took down the old video and are doing another with new analysis on the resolution (now they know how the dynamic resolution works in this case) and they have apologised, what more do you want?
Just a full page ad on the frontpage saying ''We got Oompa Loompa Doopity Screwed. We made a mistake''. Also swearing never to film a Digital Foundry video again and have Leadbetter play a full round of Getting Over It. /s.*

The Devs misleading statements are irrelevant to the topic
They are literally *why* DF took their video down, issued an apology, did an update to the article... but sure, its ''irrelevant''. It has everything to do with it and i wish you would be as feraocious blaming 34BadThings as you are now doing Digital Foundry.

I'll report it and move on, because this forum is supposed to be better than that.
This forum is better than that because most users are aware that DF did Y to unfuck their situation and 34BadThings hasnt done Z to unfuck theirs. Your accusations lay consistently on one side of the coin, whilst ignoring the other. That one side of the coin has admitted it is a coin, specifically a nickel, whilst the other side of the coin still thinks its a 2 dollar bill.

You can keep on criticizing DF for admitting that they are a coin, but you should be criticizing the other side for still thinking they are a 2 dollar bill.

I don't see how they could have done this on purpose in bad faith. It's not like people wouldn't notice.

Seems like an honest mistake to me.
Digital Foundry (Or is it for some users Digital Laundry? I mean, with all that dirt that is thrown to them..) has literally nothing to gain by operating in bad faith towards 34BadThings. The fact that you have users here thinking that they are and that, even after issuing a full apology, they still should do more is beyond me.

I have no idea about the politics of 34BigThings, but their strategy here couldn't be any more Trumpian and that 'fake news' part is telling.

They promise that the X version is 4K/60 fps. When it becomes apparent that they can't deliver this (even presuming this was all in good faith and they really thought they could deliver this when they made the statement), they don't make an announcement explaining what the patch is actually going to be like. They leave that false promise out there and let people continue buying the game, thinking the X version will be 4K/60 when the patch drops.

The patch drops and doesn't deliver this at all, as we know from the dev's *own* admission that the game tops out below 4K. Further more, it runs noticeably worse than the PS4 Pro version, while using lower graphics settings, even when it's matching the Pro's 1080p output.

In their analysis of the game, Digital Foundry make two key mistakes. First of all they miss that the game does under certain conditions run at higher resolutions than 1080p on the X. Secondly, they fail to leave open the possibility that the game may hit higher resolutions. This is something I've heard them do in the past. They (imo) accurately title their video to demonstrate that the X version is worse than the Pro version, and I think fairly call the patch bad as a result. There is no reason we should be seeing worse performance and graphical settings on the X version, even if at times it runs at a higher resolution.

This is where 34BigThings go full Trump.

Rather than responding to the fact that they didn't deliver what they promised, and have in fact delivered one of the worst X patches yet seen, they pick up on the mistake Digital Foundry made (a mistake I should add, that doesn't change that 34BigThings didn't deliver what they promised when it comes to resolution) call them liars, attack their credibility and call them fake news, and threaten to sue. It's a classic Trump counter attack. Admit no wrong doing. Distract. Threaten litigation.

I cannot think of many ways 34BigThings could have responded to Digital Foundry's video that would be worse or more damaging to 34BigThings reputation.

Seizing on the mistake. Ignoring everything else. Suggesting an agenda that isn't remotely there. Threatening to sue.

I'm not going to leap on the person tweeting over the 1080p is 50% thing, because it's a common mistake and I have no idea if they're tech savvy themselves.

But the fact remains the game tops out below 4K, runs demonstrably worse than the Pro version (and isn't anything close to a steady 60 fps) and offers worse LOD, and other graphical settings compared to the Pro version.

It's a bad X patch. This attempt to distract from that with false claims and threats of legal action is embarrassing and 100% transparent to many of us.

DF will, I'm sure, make sure not to fail to mention that any given game might top out at a higher resolution than they've seen in the future. And that's something they ought to do, even if just to make it harder for developers with terrible PR departments to distract from failing to deliver on their promises, and knowingly leaving misleading claims out there.
This is literally where i am at. The burden of proof (or apology) is at 34BigThings. Else they, as Neil Degrasse would put it in Cosmos, will have to ''put up, or shut up.''.

It's like you didn't even read my post. I wasn't turning anything into a fanboy war or making it about consoles. I was questioning the title of the article and how it is pretty obviously clickbait and pandering to those who want to see the Pro come out on top.
Im not even going to link back to one of the quotes earlier, but please dont say ''I wasn't turning'' when you clearly were. Its dishonest to do so.

What is relevant is DF getting the resolution wrong.
This must be like the 20th time i have been reading you saying this - When are you going to move beyond that point and see that DF did do things right and 34BadThings did do less than 34 bad things wrong?

I hate threads like this. Console wars are horrible. I just want to make honest, interesting videos divorced from this nonsense. It's extremely deflating.
Ah, John, i understand.. It really is a damn shame that something that could have been remedied with a simple email now gets blown up because the developer just couldnt help themselves but to cry wolf in a public arena. I find that very damning of 34BadThings, especially because it deflects away from the (obvious) quality that is Redout.

I hope it helps when i say that you guys handled it with care - as you did always. Don't worry too much John, you make mistakes, its what makes one human.

I 100% agree. They need a full article retraction.
Why? Because DF should be thrown in the mud but 34BadThings does not need to do anything to be cleared? Even after the fact, after the apology, people are still riding on DF's hiney when its actually the developer's turn to retract their equally damning statements?

One should be lucky DF isnt considering a lawsuit against them. Because apparently, thats fair game. Right?

That's the fault of digital foundry. They should have done a better, more thorough analysis. Glad Vgtech was here.
I am so happy to find out that you haven't read the article where they properly credit VG Tech for their findings. There is no animosity between the two, so why try to wish that there was?

They fucked up, they admitted it. At this point, still saying ''Well its their fault'' is just being hurtful for no reason at all other than to give DF a kick afterwards.
Especially when you have a developer who has done jack so far into taking responsibility for their equally damning statements.

I just try to imagine if it was my my game I spent years trying to develop make etc. There reaction is understandable even if overboard.
No, its not. Its just shitty PR. And i am not denying how hard game development can be - see the link at the top.
If anything, 34BadThings overreacted.

vERAfied you mean :)

Thanks for being a part of our community.
Im still trying to get verafied myself but it is been a hassle, sadly. Did PMing and all that so im really unsure what to do next.

You didn't ask questions, you implied that i was ok with the devs efforts. Next time don't be snarky and ill answer your question. You resetera mods are terrible, giving people warnings for not agreeing with you. Get off your high horses. This is probably going to kill my account, back to gaf i guess!
Funny thing is that this only costs you a 24 hour ban. You will get a second chance. So much for the mods being big meanies huh :)
 
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Replicant

Attempted to circumvent a ban with an alt
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,380
MN
It's a weird story to be sure. I'm not sure how DF missed the dynamic scaling, but I'm also not sure why they would outward lie about something when it could be easily proven by anyone with the tools to do that. The top rated tech analysis website wouldn't lie about something like that, but at the same time, they really messed up if they couldn't spot the scaling.
 

Dark1x

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
3,530
It's a weird story to be sure. I'm not sure how DF missed the dynamic scaling, but I'm also not sure why they would outward lie about something when it could be easily proven by anyone with the tools to do that. The top rated tech analysis website wouldn't lie about something like that, but at the same time, they really messed up if they couldn't spot the scaling.
It's been explained before - the scaling works differently from other games, apparently. Resolution changes occur based on track position not rendering load, as you'd expect.

I still haven't had a chance to try it myself but that seems to be the way it works. When something out of the ordinary like this pops up it's easy to see how someone could miss it.
 

Replicant

Attempted to circumvent a ban with an alt
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,380
MN
It's been explained before - the scaling works differently from other games, apparently. Resolution changes occur based on track position not rendering load, as you'd expect.

I still haven't had a chance to try it myself but that seems to be the way it works. When something out of the ordinary like this pops up it's easy to see how someone could miss it.

I haven't read the entire thread, so thank you for the update. I'm sure this will indeed just make you guys work harder for the future.
 

Gemüsepizza

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,541
Seems like a strange implementation of dynamic resolution. I guess this is probably why there are still frame rate drops to something like 45fps.

Imo this sounds more like "variable resolution" and not like "dynamic resolution".
 

Poison Jam

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,984
It's been explained before - the scaling works differently from other games, apparently. Resolution changes occur based on track position not rendering load, as you'd expect.

I still haven't had a chance to try it myself but that seems to be the way it works. When something out of the ordinary like this pops up it's easy to see how someone could miss it.
That sounds like a very strange decision. I was going to say it must be a limitation of their engine... But it's using Unreal.

You mean as in the players position on the track, or their position in the race (1st, 2nd etc)?
 

VanWinkle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,092
Respect to DF. Major disrespect to the dev, though. Shame on them for throwing insults towards DF for thinking it was 1080p, which it is at times, when the developer themselves have called it 4k, a resolution it in fact never is. DF is more right than the developer.

For that reason, I truly can't fathom those who are siding with the dev.
 

AlexFlame116

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 17, 2017
23,177
Utah
Yeah I'm siding with DF on all this. The way that those developers reacted are not only completely pushing me away from them but they're also fueling the vitriol that DF is getting on Twitter. Why are gamers such.....sigh.....and people wonder why we're not always seen in a positive light.
 

Dark1x

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
3,530
Dave will work on a new video first thing tomorrow.

I'll be back to my home office later this week and then promptly seeking help.
 

Poison Jam

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,984
Thanks dude! That's some weird shit.

I have this game on PC, and have played it with an RX 480, which is similar to the XB1X. I recall approaching the portals being the most demanding parts, any other areas of the tracks would run well. Granted, my PC has a far more capable CPU.

Still, this approach must be jarring in practice, compared to tying it to load. And the minimum and maximum resolutions are so far apart! :O
 

Deleted member 3058

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,728
I don't see how anyone could look at all the events here and side with the devs when

-34BigThings declare Digital Foundry fake news unironically
-Calls them liars with inaccurate tech claims
-Doesn't update their own site or twitter to fix their own inaccurate tech claims of scaling percentages, etc.
-Threaten legal action

Whereas

-DF corrects article almost immediately
-A few hours later, pulls video and issues apology on twitter and their original article
-Plans to revisit game on Monday


DF has been nothing but professional this whole time. Good on them, they're handing this way better than I ever could have.
From my perspective this is a pretty good summary of what happened.

DF are acting like adults, the dev? Not so much.
 

Kibbles

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,418
Why didn't DF's captures go over 1080 then? Weird situation. Something wrong with their Xbox One X?
 
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