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34BigThings Denies Digital Foundry’s Redout XB1X Analysis (Update: Digital Foundry Apology)
- Thread starter lupianwolf
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Most devs just reach out to DF for corrections if they see something wrong. Nothing like an overreaction to get people against the developers unnecessarily
DF already edited the video post themselves explaining the situation
DF already edited the video post themselves explaining the situation
Fair enough.
How many 34BigThings games have you bought or were interested in buying before this though?
I think the adverse affects of their actual prospective market is minimal, and that in the current culture, this type of loudspeaker response does actually raise brand awareness more than it turns off brand acceptance...unfortunately
This would have worse impact on a larger publisher with a lot of popular titles because they have more to lose with such antics...but in this case, I feel a publisher like this has more to gain with this than lose. I didn't even know this, or this publisher even existed, tbh. Their future game sales will come down to how good the game is, not their reaction to this particular DF analysis
This is the first time for me to go on that website and it already seemed suspicious as for everything I was searching regarding the game's patch I would end up at their website with the first link. Moreover, in each article of the game, they would have an "exclusive" interview with the CEO or first press of their game.
So DF says the game renders at 1080p, then the devs repeatedly call them liars in the same press release where they admit the game runs at 1920x1080... and then the devs threaten to sue to protect their public image?
Do they not realise that 1080p and 1920x1080 are the same thing or something?
Do they not realise that 1080p and 1920x1080 are the same thing or something?
Do games advertise themselves as "dynamic resolution/ sub 30fps!"?
Doesnt ps4 Pro advertise 4k gaming even though most of the time it isn't native or is dynamic?
I recall games that were native 900p being branded as that...but plenty of games called themselves 1080p/30fps or 1080p/ 60fps even when the game didn't have a locked framerate or a locked resolution..right?
This is just embarrassing. Anyone who works with video, especially a developer advertising resolution as a feature, should know the relative sizes of different frame resolutions.
Then again, with math like that, maybe that's why they never hit 4k in Redout. Developer may have only allocated twice the frame buffer size, rather than four times as much.
And 34BT admitted that the game never hits 4k. If it runs at 1080p so often that you have to be lucky to get a scene with higher sustained resolution, you can't blame an outlet for saying that the game ran at 1080p when tested.
I think that kind of reaction is never acceptable, even if they felt so hard done by. There's a way to go about these things, threatening legal action and putting themselves under the spotlight probably not high on the list of best practise.
Recap: Their advertising claimed 4k/60 (it's never 4k native, it drops to sub 45fps - their own further tweet). "fake news", threat of litigation, "lol" comment on DF video. Their own incorrect, misleading percentages misrepresenting actual rendered resolution (90 vs 80, 50 vs 25).
... and this is someone referring to himself as the CEO of the outfit... not just some mythic "rogue intern" let loose on twitter, but the top dog of the studio. It's unprofessional as all fuck.
I have no interest in this game, and I don't know what other games they made/ will make in the future. There are however other developers whose past games I bought and whom I no longer support based on some of their behaviour. But it is not just about what gamers think. The games industry is small and familiar, everyone talks to everyone, and you don't want to have the wrong reputation.
I'll pass. The developer response was highly unprofessional, aping Trump rhetoric is a non-starter, and not highlighting the dynamic resolution from the beginning is suspect at best.
DF has earned the benefit of the doubt over years of service. As we've seen in previous cases, they're more than willing to follow up with developers around inconsistencies - reaching out to have a civilized discussion would have been the intelligent play.
Bad form.
Mistakes happen and DF have been professional about dealing with them in the past. Given the heavy handed and threatening response it seems like the devs are equating the twitter and YT comment section to the actual DF analysis. It's not a good look.
DF should fire back. I dont think this is a good precedent to set for devs to be such snowflakes when it comes to small mistakes immediately rectified.
I don't understand why they had to blow this so out of proportion by basically accusing DF of maliciously lying. Mistakes can happen. What would be the gain of deliberately lying about this? (Though it is a strange mistake when two DF members separately look at a patched game and both don't notice the higher res.)
Anyway, accusing them of lying and threatening to sue them is really escalating the matter. I understand that DF's mistake might have caused some negative reaction (the developer's out of proportion outrage is also no good look imo), but was it actually that damaging? I don't think many Xbox One X owners were basing their Redout purchase entirely on this supsequent patch and were waiting for the DF analysis first on top of that.
Anyway, accusing them of lying and threatening to sue them is really escalating the matter. I understand that DF's mistake might have caused some negative reaction (the developer's out of proportion outrage is also no good look imo), but was it actually that damaging? I don't think many Xbox One X owners were basing their Redout purchase entirely on this supsequent patch and were waiting for the DF analysis first on top of that.
Wow didn't see this coming. This is the first time ever a dev lashed out against DF for allegedly posting false information. Whether they're right or not, this is sure to impact their veracity in one way or other.
I'd hope people would have more sympathy for DF and not this dev. Most devs are fully okay with DF's analysis(we know many devs do follow DF too). And they have been happy to reach out when DF may get something incorrect or misinterpret something, which they quickly update.
THis dev doesn't deserve any sympathy for their kneejerk reaction
Threatening legal action against DF because consumers called them lazy and wouldn't buy the game due to technical issues is pretty funny. It isn't like Digital Foundry made anything up and they didn't shit all over the game either.
By their own admission the frame rate isn't consistent and the resolution is dynamic, which possibly meant that for most of the game it was stuck rendering at 1080p to try and keep the frame rate up.
I certainly have no desire to support the game if this is how they handle things.
By their own admission the frame rate isn't consistent and the resolution is dynamic, which possibly meant that for most of the game it was stuck rendering at 1080p to try and keep the frame rate up.
I certainly have no desire to support the game if this is how they handle things.
Unless they specifically advertised it as native 4k/ locked 60fps...I really cant get worked up about that part.
Isn't it common industry practice to label your game as a 4k/60fps game or a 1080p/30fps game even if its actually dynamic resolution and has frame rates that dip? Isn't the only onus on publishers to indicate "native" and "locked" if it's anything other than dynamic and unlocked? Not the other way around?
Seems like someone is about to shoot themselves in the foot if this continues. Just to check though since this is the first I'm reading about this. Are we at a point where a backpedalling is still possible and an apology can be issued? or are we at a point of no return and how someone's image is about to get dragged through the mud because of actions taken?
So DF didn't capture the rare instance this game goes above 1080p and the dev freaks out?
DFs point about them removing the frame rate cap and adding 4K hud as a half assed patch still stands. They should have at least matched the effects of the PS4 pro.
I get that burnout is a thing and studios should manage it. But lashing out against somebody for analyzing your patch for what it is isn't the way to fix your employees morale and work life balance.
DFs point about them removing the frame rate cap and adding 4K hud as a half assed patch still stands. They should have at least matched the effects of the PS4 pro.
I get that burnout is a thing and studios should manage it. But lashing out against somebody for analyzing your patch for what it is isn't the way to fix your employees morale and work life balance.
You would say your title targets 4k/60 in that instance. This game never renders 4k and, by their own admission, drops sub 45fps. Claiming 4k/60 is more than a little naughty. But that's all by-the-by, the subject at hand is the CEO's response to his reading of the DF presentation.
No big deal. The bad press blowback on this is clearly bigger than me alleging 90% of their Twitter followers are fake.
The video did have DF insinuate that the devs has lied about the game being 4K because 'only the HUD is 4K'.
Yup. Digital Foundry really needs to be careful and put in time to get things right. You are dealing with people's livelihoods here not to mention crazy folks on the internet. Glad VGtech is here to correct their mistakes.
I'm not taking the devs' side, but this a pretty interesting development all things considered.
I don't think there was any need for a lawsuit let alone insult the way DF works. I think they could've settled it without any animosity or threats. By asking them to fix this small mistake and post an update video. Still, whole thing is pretty ridiculous. DF will have to be extra careful in the future.
Yeah the "fake news" mention made me lose all respect in a nanosecond.
I mean, seriously? Instead of saying "the analysis is a bit misleading because..." they make such a statement. The hell?
The game runs at dynamic res based on load. It just so happens that the game's res barely ever hits far above 1080p because its trying to keep the FPS up. Yet the FPS still drops, even with XBO level assets.
I think the devs have no leg to stand on whatsoever. All they are claiming is DF didn't say their game was dynamic res, but they DID do that because they referenced another study done by VGtech earlier today.
I think the devs have no leg to stand on whatsoever. All they are claiming is DF didn't say their game was dynamic res, but they DID do that because they referenced another study done by VGtech earlier today.
Fake news is a bit lame, at least use the term "clickbaiting" which DF have recently admitted they partake in to improve click throughs
This is why we need as many tech analysts as we can, including NX Gamer. Anyone can make a mistake, even the mighty DF.
So the game has a dynamic res that goes down to 1080p and has framerate problems. Wouldn't that mean the res would scale down to the lowest setting due to fps being unstable/wouldn't it be at 1080p often?
Lmao
Lmao
The game still doesn't reach 4K, even with dynamic resolution. So that statement doesn't really change much.
It almost sounds like Trump. False, I'll sue you, shut up!
Never heard of this game, but I won't buy something from people whonacts like crazy.
I'm a criminal lawyer and people everyday tell me that I should go to jail, 'cause I protect scum. I just hear and I try to explain politely my profession.
If you are a game developer, you create games. You should know already that you create GAMEs and that teenagers will be a great part of your clients. It's expected to be treated badly. It's not right, but it's your profession. Treat it like a professional, not like mad person.
Never heard of this game, but I won't buy something from people whonacts like crazy.
I'm a criminal lawyer and people everyday tell me that I should go to jail, 'cause I protect scum. I just hear and I try to explain politely my profession.
If you are a game developer, you create games. You should know already that you create GAMEs and that teenagers will be a great part of your clients. It's expected to be treated badly. It's not right, but it's your profession. Treat it like a professional, not like mad person.
I zone out the minute someone drops a "fake news" in whatever they're trying to say. I hear Trump's voice in my head, and I start heaving. DF is a stand up team of experts. If a mistake happened they'll own up to it. But this guy is saying things and claiming statements they didn't even make. I'm not prone to believe you when you make up stuff to make your point.
they didn't say the devs "lied" about anything. they reported their findings and their shots all came back 1080p. So its a fact that the game rarely goes above 1080p, has FPS problems and uses XB1 assets
Wouldn't you be upset if someone put false information about your game causing you to loose tons of sales?
Yes. But equally contacting DF for a correction might be the sensible first step.
Seems an overreaction somewhat.
Ok then. Sorry couldn't keep up with this thread. Reading so much different stories.
But by then maybe some damage could've been done. This is a small team that probably wants every sale they can get.
Technically there is not a single 4K game on any console, as the term 4K is a marketing term that refers very broadly to a bunch of resolutions.
I'd be pissed if I had watched that vide and then read this
As things stand, there seems to be a running theme of Redout over-promising and under-delivering on consoles. An interview with developer 34BigThings claims that the PS4 Pro version runs at checkerboard 4K with most of PC's epic settings enabled, while simultaneously claiming that Xbox One X would hand in native ultra HD with all visual presets ramped up to the max. That's an enticing prospect bearing in mind how beautiful the PC experience is, but all of our pixel counts resolve 1080p resolution only on both X and Pro consoles.
"The game is 1080p, the developer lied"
'Update, the game isn't 1080p, we will investigate how much they have lied and how wrong we were at other time, meanwhile enjoy this video where we infer they lied'
The game doesn't only run at 1080p. They were wrong
I mean if the game is dropping frames, it's not even capable of running well at the "lower end" 1080p resolution. Sure if you park the car the resolution might go up, but in effect you're getting 1080p while racing, and it can't even run well at that resolution. Looks pretty silly to come out and say "you lied! it does go higher." OK sure, but not in normal gameplay, and honestly it looks like the resolution needed to go even lower if they wanted to hit 60 fps.
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