21:9 vs 16:9 - why ultrawide should be the new standard.

Edge · Jan 13, 2021

Abdul Malik Ka'bah said:
I play on tvs

This.

Also, I play on a 65 inch one and with that, I have the width of 21:9, even more, plus height that you guys don't have. So I simply don't see the point.

And I know it's technically not true if a game is made for 21:9, I know, I know, but in theory, if a dev would support different settings...

AfropunkNyc said:
ultrawide >>>>>>>>>>> 4k. Its also great when 2d games take advantage of 21:9 aspect ratio.

Then I could have these exact zoom out in these 2D games but with twice the picture information on top and bottom. It's completely possible on a 16:9 if a dev would give us the option.

Specially in the 2D examples here in the thread it shows that it's just a simple zoom out that would work even better on a 16:9.

TrueHero · Jan 13, 2021

Just wanna put out there, 38 in. UW is a great sweetspot for those that miss the horizontal pixels of 16:10 and want ultrawide. If you can afford it of course

Edit: oop forgot a word

degauss · Jan 13, 2021

So immersive guys, you just can't go back!

Biggersmaller · Jan 13, 2021

Stacey said:
After watching this video how could anyone prefer having such a restricted view?
Why are developers actively blocking the ultrawide future?
Why haven't you upgraded to an ultrawide?

1. I love it and do prefer 21:9.
2. Consoles do not support it.
3. Consoles do not support it.

-Le Monde- · Jan 13, 2021

Why not have it as an option instead of screwing people over?

degauss said:
So immersive guys, you just can't go back!

😂

SigSig · Jan 13, 2021

noooo I don't want 16:9, 4:3 is perfectly fine
I watched a 16:9 movie on my 4:3 CRT and it's missing half the screen? 16:9 will never succeed!

Princess Bubblegum · Jan 13, 2021

Such small thinking, video games need their own CinemaScope.

c0Zm1c · Jan 13, 2021

Stacey said:
Why are developers actively blocking the ultrawide future?

I don't think that's a fair assessment. Developers just don't always have an interest in supporting it properly. If they were going out of their way to actively block it then they may as well just spend the effort in adding it.

I would prefer agnostic aspect ratio support to be the standard anyway. That way every ratio, old, new or otherwise is automatically supported.

Stacey · Jan 13, 2021

c0Zm1c said:
I don't think that's a fair assessment. Developers just don't always have an interest in supporting it properly. If they were going out of their way to actively block it then they may as well just spend the effort in adding it.

I would prefer agnostic aspect ratio support to be the standard anyway. That way every ratio, old, new or otherwise is automatically supported.

It was a snide remark towards Epic and Riot, they have actively blocked 21:9 from competitive play. Fortnite even fully supports it in save the world.

Nabs · Jan 13, 2021

degauss said:
So immersive guys, you just can't go back!

Funny, but the vertical space doesn't change across these three resolutions. Another post said it looked cut off, but it's the same as 16:9 just extended outwards. *shrug*

-Le Monde- said:
Why not have it as an option instead of screwing people over?

I don't think anyone is asking for anything but the option.

Pargon · Jan 13, 2021

BAW said:
Bottom pic is the same as top pic if you just sit closer.

Well, yes, but as I said: the problem is that the viewing distance changes based on the content when using a 16:9 display.
Most people are not going to pull their couch forward 2ft every time they watch a movie - so the 21:9 image ends up being viewed smaller and has less impact than regular 16:9 content, when it's actually intended to appear larger (wider).

I find letterboxing (top and bottom) to be distracting for that reason, while pillarboxing (on the sides) does not bother me at all since it has no effect on viewing distance.
I would much rather use a 21:9 display where all content is displayed at a fixed height, and only the width changes.
And personally, the majority of content that I watch is (or can be) 21:9 - either PC games or movies.

OmniStrife · Jan 13, 2021

Sometimes I just don't see the point in these forum discussions.

Pargon said:
There sure are a lot of uniformed takes from people here, but I expect nothing less from Era. I couldn't possibly respond to them all.

Really though, I wish they would give it another try.
OLEDs would be ideal for 21:9 displays, since you don't have to worry about backlight uniformity or viewing angle.

In theory, yes.
In practice, no.

With a 21:9 display I can comfortably sit close enough that I have a 60° horizontal viewing angle and a 25° vertical viewing angle.
Sitting the same distance to a 16:9 display increases the vertical viewing angle to 32° - which I find uncomfortably tall to look at. It involves too much head/eye movement to see everything.

When I sit further back from a 16:9 display to the point that it becomes comfortable, the horizontal viewing angle is only 44° and vertical is back around 25°.
After trying various displays, I've found that 60° horizontal and 25° vertical is about the limit of what is comfortable to me on either axis, no matter the aspect ratio.
Which means that 21:9 monitors (2.39:1) are almost the ideal aspect ratio. 60:25 is 2.40:1.
Anything taller shrinks the horizontal view, while anything wider shrinks the vertical, because it forces me to sit further back.

2.40:1 also eliminates letterboxing from 99% of movies in existence.

Rare supported it in some of their N64 games. It's not that difficult.
Perfect Dark:

The GPU workload is only 1/3 more for 21:9 - and that's if you keep the same vertical resolution.
3440x1440 is about 60% of the cost of rendering native 4K, and looks much better.

No.
It fixes the problem of movies getting smaller and requiring you to sit closer to get the bigger impact it is supposed to provide.
And you get a much larger image in games.

Start using the PC Gaming Wiki and Widescreen Gaming Forum.
I played through Bloodstained: RotN in 21:9 the day of release.

Use FancyZones or buy DisplayFusion in the next Steam sale (typically 75% off, and has a less restrictive license than buying direct).

Microsoft PowerToys

Microsoft PowerToys is a set of utilities for customizing Windows. Utilities include ColorPicker, FancyZones, File Explorer Add-ons, Image Resizer, Keyboard Manager, PowerRename, PowerToys Run, a Shortcut Guide and more to come.

docs.microsoft.com

Widescreen = 16:9

Ultra-wide ≈ 21:9

Super Ultra-wide = 32:9

I've seen a lot of confusion about this, or terms being misused now.
Many seem to have started calling 21:9 displays "widescreen" and 32:9 "ultra-wide" as though 16:9 was not.

I do agree with you about 32:9 though.
I wouldn't go as far as to say that it is terrible for gaming, but I see it as a substitute for a dual-monitor productivity setup rather than being ideal for gaming. It's too wide.

vs.

degauss said:
So immersive guys, you just can't go back!

Weebos · Jan 13, 2021

Do they make 21:9 tvs? I'm primarily a console player, so I don't think I'll see 21:9 for a long time.

random88 · Jan 13, 2021

I'm all for support of ultrawide resolutions, but I don't think it always adds to the experience. It works for some games, and it doesn't for others.

Burai · Jan 13, 2021

Warrior of Light said:
Agreed. The wider it gets, the more I'm thinking "what if it showed more image on the top and the bottom?".

You can already do that on a 4:3 display by zooming the camera out and the answer is "more skybox".

OmniStrife · Jan 13, 2021

Weebos said:
Do they make 21:9 tvs? I'm primarily a console player, so I don't think I'll see 21:9 for a long time.

Do you watch movies on your TV? A big majority of them are closer to 21:9 than to 16:9... and just like 4:3 to 16:9 the hardware will lag behind media.

Menchin · Jan 13, 2021

Stacey said:
Why haven't you upgraded to an ultrawide?

Too expensive where I live, and too big for my desk

dirtyjane · Jan 13, 2021

Im an one of the earlier adaptors of 21:9, i still got my 350€ 27" LG IPS Panel from 2013 with 2560x1080p, still works fine, has 3ms of lag and the colours are not great but not bad either. Still brings joy to my heart!

Zaimokuza · Jan 13, 2021

Kyoufu said:
Consoles meet TV standards, not the other way around. Blame TV manufacturers.

I wasn't blaming anyone, but yeah: if the living room standard was 21:9 consoles would render videogames in 21:9

MJForum Poster · Jan 13, 2021

Pargon said:
Start using the PC Gaming Wiki and Widescreen Gaming Forum.
I played through Bloodstained: RotN in 21:9 the day of release.

Use FancyZones or buy DisplayFusion in the next Steam sale (typically 75% off, and has a less restrictive license than buying direct).

Microsoft PowerToys

Microsoft PowerToys is a set of utilities for customizing Windows. Utilities include ColorPicker, FancyZones, File Explorer Add-ons, Image Resizer, Keyboard Manager, PowerRename, PowerToys Run, a Shortcut Guide and more to come.

docs.microsoft.com

Appreciate the suggestions but I'm not really looking for third party solutions or having to do a bunch of work myself. Mostly because I use everything at this desk not only for gaming, but also working (on a Mac, so the software recommendations would need to be duplicated there). I want it to be well supported and it's improving but still not where I want it.

Forgot another massive issue I have with it - anytime i wanna do Steam In-Home Streaming or Nvidia Gamestream I have to manually change the resolution of the game. Then when I go back to sitting at my desk I have to change it back. Incredibly tedious and another thing pushing me to just two 1440p 27" monitors.

Manu · Jan 13, 2021

Nabs said:
I don't think anyone is asking for anything but the option.

The thread title literally says "should be the new standard."

Skel1ingt0n · Jan 13, 2021

I'm THIIIIIIIS close to pulling the trigger on the new 38" Alienware, but lack of HMDI 2.1 and only HDR600 are holding me back a bit.

Plum · Jan 13, 2021

21:9 is a niche of a niche that simply isn't feasible price-wise or even function-wise for the vast majority of people out there. Is it really surprising that it's not blown up compared to the vastly more-accessible 16:9, or is this another case of Era forgetting that most people aren't as rich as them?

Note: This is coming from someone who had a 21:9 monitor for about a year or so and really enjoyed it during that time, so it's not like I have an aversion to the tech itself. I just find it really ignorant to suggest that there aren't many, many factors stopping this from becoming 'the new standard'. Maybe in the future it will be, but it's going to be a while before it even comes close to being mainstream.

Cross-Section · Jan 13, 2021

I've been using ultrawide monitors of varying sizes since 2015, so I can probably say I'm full-in on this thing.

It's definitely a better experience with more modern games, but getting a bigger monitor has been a salve on that pain of playing an unsupported game.

Productivity-wise, I couldn't imagine going back to two 16:9 monitors.

Oh, and movies look rad too.

TripleBee · Jan 13, 2021

I think the issue will always be that TVs are the main screen used for videogames - and they also need to display movies and tv without huge sections of the screen not being black bars.

Deleted member 79451 · Jan 13, 2021

Please no. 16:9 is already objectively too much (human eyesight). For immersion VR is best.

JudgmentJay · Jan 13, 2021

degauss said:
So immersive guys, you just can't go back!

I don't think you understand how aspect ratios work. Nothing is being removed from the top/bottom in 21:9 when compared to 16:9.

nikos · Jan 13, 2021

Going 21:9 is one of the best upgrades I've ever done. It's like going from 4:3 to 16:9, except better. It's time for TVs to go ultrawide, not only for gaming. Watching films would be a much better experience, as most fill that aspect ratio almost perfectly. It's also great for productivity rather than using multiple monitors, which is an eye sore.

What makes absolutely no sense is how reluctant people are to go 21:9, yet they play at high FOV, turning games into a distorted, fish-eyed mess on 16:9 displays. You can get that horizontal FOV naturally with 21:9, and still increase it if you really want to.

21:9 joins countless other advancements in technology that people are hesitant to adopt. Then, once they finally do, they wonder how they ever lived without it. Those of us who already have can at least enjoy it now, but it would be really nice to see this become the new standard.

Amauri14 · Jan 13, 2021

Stacey said:
Why haven't you upgraded to an ultrawide?

The same reason I will not upgrade to a 4K monitor and also because I don't see the appeal to it.

dragn · Jan 13, 2021

the new samsung tv's this year have both wider ratios as an option, only with supported games and probably pc only so useless lol

degauss · Jan 13, 2021

OmniStrife said:
Sometimes I just don't see the point in these forum discussions.

I don't see the point either. You are editorialising things with your post to make one side to have good arguments and one not.

I made a fairly long, detailed, multi-paragraph, serious post earlier in the thread about why 16x9 is plenty wide enough, and arguably proportionately slightly too wide already for my tastes. So did other people. But you use my little 1 line joke post for your VERSUS post.

c0Zm1c · Jan 13, 2021

I'm seeing price mentioned a few times in this thread but aren't 1080p ultrawide monitors relatively cheap these days? You could argue that people want higher resolutions than that now but when most PC gamers appear to be still on 1080p I'm not sure it's a sound argument.

Serious Sam · Jan 13, 2021

OmniStrife said:
Do you watch movies on your TV? A big majority of them are closer to 21:9 than to 16:9... and just like 4:3 to 16:9 the hardware will lag behind media.

Strange argument. If you take a sum of all entertainment (movies, series, documentaries, games, youtube, etc.), on average you'll have more black bars on 21:9 display than you would on 16:9 one.

OrangeNova · Jan 13, 2021

Ultrawide is such a game changer, friend sold me his old ultrawide, and holy shit, totally different experience.

Plum · Jan 13, 2021

nikos said:
Going 21:9 is one of the best upgrades I've ever done. It's like going from 4:3 to 16:9, except better. It's time for TVs to go ultrawide, not only for gaming. Watching films would be a much better experience, as most fill that aspect ratio almost perfectly. It's also great for productivity rather than using multiple monitors, which is an eye sore.

What makes absolutely no sense is how reluctant people are to go 21:9, yet they play at high FOV, turning games into a distorted, fish-eyed mess on 16:9 displays. You can get that horizontal FOV naturally with 21:9, and still increase it if you really want to.

21:9 joins countless other advancements in technology that people are hesitant to adopt. Then, once they finally do, they wonder how they ever lived without it. Those of us who already have can at least enjoy it now, but it would be really nice to see this become the new standard.

Maybe people are reluctant because they don't want to spend hundreds on a new monitor to replace the perfectly good one they already own, or they don't have a gaming PC capable of running games at ultrawide (or have one at all), or they simply don't feel that going all-in on a technology that is incompatible with a lot of software is the right thing for them. Acting as if it's just people being luddites is ignorant to the actual financial and practical realities that most people have to consider.

c0Zm1c said:
I'm seeing price mentioned a few times in this thread but aren't 1080p ultrawide monitors relatively cheap these days? You could argue that people want higher resolutions than that now but when most PC gamers appear to be still on 1080p I'm not sure it's a sound argument.

"It's only two hundred for the cheapest tiny monitors with mediocre colours, what's stopping you from buying it?"

nopattern · Jan 13, 2021

Stacey said:
Why haven't you upgraded to an ultrawide?

because money

c0Zm1c · Jan 13, 2021

Plum said:
"It's only two hundred for the cheapest tiny monitors with mediocre colours, what's stopping you from buying it?"

The point is those on a budget are not excluded from having options when it comes to ultrawide monitors, like most other things too - I've seen the same argument thrown at VR headsets.

Foltzie · Jan 13, 2021

16:9 was "invented" in 1984. 21:9 was "invented" in 2009"

I would say give it another decade.

Rumi · Jan 13, 2021

I switched to 21:9 almost a year ago and for pc gaming and would never go back to 16:9. It really enhances the experience while playing an mmo. It's unfortunate that the uw community has to jump through hoops just to get it working for certain new games.

Plum · Jan 13, 2021

c0Zm1c said:
The point is those on a budget are not excluded from having options when it comes to ultrawide monitors, like most other things too - I've seen the same argument thrown at VR headsets.

You need to seriously reconsider what you think most people's actual budgets are if you think "able to spend $200 to be an early adopter of a completely unnecessary technology," can be done "on a budget."

minimalism · Jan 13, 2021

Personally it's because I sit ~2 feet from my monitor at my desk and an UW would require me to move my eyes/head around too much to see the whole screen. That alone is a deal breaker. I'm honestly much happier with multiple discrete monitors than one big one.

degauss · Jan 13, 2021

JudgmentJay said:
I don't think you understand how aspect ratios work. Nothing is being removed from the top/bottom in 21:9 when compared to 16:9.

I understand how aspect ratios work, I didn't have time to download that Mario 64 PC release, figure out how to do a custom resolution and screenshot it. I just cropped the image for comic effect, simply to show that at a certain point, these wide aspect ratios start looking stupid.

We can all agree that at a certain point they do start looking stupid, we just obviously differ on the point at which it happens.

Moebius · Jan 13, 2021

PSOreo said:
No thanks. Its just way to elongated for my liking and a massive waste of space. Plus I like watching movies on my screen.

You like black bars on the top and bottom of your movies?

I agree that ultrawide at least on pc is absolutely the future. Once you go ultrawide you don't go back. If a game supports it, and you can push the pixels, there are zero downsides to it. You see more of the game and it is more immersive.

minimalism said:
Personally it's because I sit ~2 feet from my monitor at my desk and an UW would require me to move my eyes/head around too much to see the whole screen. That alone is a deal breaker. I'm honestly much happier with multiple discrete monitors than one big one.

This is what I thought too, but it generally isn't true. The extra stuff you see on screen is in your peripheral vision. You really don't have to keep moving your head and eyes around. You just concentrate your attention to the center of the monitor.

dgrdsv · Jan 13, 2021

Stacey said:
After watching this video how could anyone prefer having such a restricted view?

This isn't a proper comparison.
A proper one would be to have the lower display at the same square size as the higher one - which would mean it had to be higher.
In the same improper comparison you could've put two displays with the same width but different height in a video and see which one would look better (hint: the bigger one).

While vertical fov is less important for human perception than horizontal it is still important and it's not a clear cut that a wider display would always look better than a taller one with the same overall screen area.

c0Zm1c · Jan 13, 2021

Plum said:
You need to seriously reconsider what you think most people's actual budgets are if you think "able to spend $200 to be an early adopter of a completely unnecessary technology," can be done "on a budget."

Early adopter? My ultrawide monitor is 8 years old at this point - you could buy a similar specification panel now for a lot less than I paid for it back in 2013 I would imagine.

thenexus6 · Jan 13, 2021

I'm still rocking 1080p 60Hz after all these years. Will eventually make the jump to something better. Will probably be a 21:9 144hz screen

Manu · Jan 13, 2021

Moebius said:
You like black bars on the top and bottom of your movies?

You see black bars on movies because most of them were filmed in 21:9 (or other ultrawide) ratios.

Most games don't support 21:9 yet.

Teamocil · Jan 13, 2021

this shit is so niche.

don't get me wrong, my next monitor is going to be 21:9 but expecting it to be standard is a stupid pipe dream lol

minimalism · Jan 13, 2021

Moebius said:
This is what I thought too, but it generally isn't true. The extra stuff you see on screen is in your peripheral vision. You really don't have to keep moving your head and eyes around. You just concentrate your attention to the center of the monitor.

If that's the case then I consider them useless pixels to push. Seeing stuff out of my periphery doesn't increase immersion for me. But I can see the appeal I supose.

Manu · Jan 13, 2021

OmniStrife said:
Here's some examples of my G9... even with pillarboxes which disappear after about 30 seconds of your eyes focusing on the game.
The 1000R curve makes it incredibly immersive.

Like I'm sorry but that Witcher 3 picture looks like shit to me. Look at all that empty space to the sides.

And some will say "that's how people felt when 4:3 was replaced by 16:9" and no, I was there and it wasn't.

The 2D examples look cool.

21:9 vs 16:9 - why ultrawide should be the new standard.

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