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2020 Democratic Presidential Primary | OT | Hickenlooper makes it to the debate
- Thread starter pigeon
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How is saying, "I wonder if we will ever learn that we are doing the same things we are so appalled by and change it" a bad thing?
Another word for "whataboutism" is critical thinking. Is your goal to stop critical thinking? How are we allowed to bring these comparisons up without them being whataboutism, may I ask? If I said "actually russia is fine because we do it too" you would have a point, but my point is that we are bad when we behave the same way as Russia (the premise being that russia is bad, as it's not a good comparison) and we should stop acting like them, so... maybe define "classic whataboutism" so I can avoid it in the future.
So the answer is no then. You don't think we should do anything about Russia hacking and altering our elections.
I wanna know what you want to do about it. Since cyber warfare is a fairly complicated subject.
You dont think something as simple as tough sanctions are justified?
The 3 candidates thus far who are not pushing for Medicare for all
1. Klobuchar
2. Beto
3. Buttigieg
Soon
4. Biden
1. Klobuchar
2. Beto
3. Buttigieg
Soon
4. Biden
Post should have ended there.
This assumes every poster talking to you agrees with that stance when that's far from the case. You seem to be mistaking Democrats for Republicans here.
That post had nothing to do with the Soviets? Are you stanning for the Soviet's now?
Except the people you were arguing with agreed with you about interfering with elections. People are getting testy because you're shrugging off people saying they dislike any government doing that, including the US.
Why are you taking an amusing, if not joking, tone about the serious issue of Russia interfering with the US electoral systems? Do you like Trump? Because he's a result of that. Are you a Tulsi fan, by chance?
I know Beto and Pete are pushing more the "Medicare, if you want it" plan and Biden basically just says "Hey, Obamacare is sure great". What is Klobuchar's plan?
I love when people constantly deflect criticism of Russia onto our own misdeeds. It's some 'All elections matter' shit.
Even though his response to that Brexit question was hot garbage, credit where credit is due on his campaigning
I'm talking about America, not just posters in this thread. Not everything is about you, Ichthyosaurus. Obviously a lot of Americans (namely the ones in power but also the people who defend their positions) feel that way because it's demonstrated in how we conduct our country internationally. We feel it's okay to interfere with other country's governments and electoral processes if it's beneficial to us (financially or "morally"). Is this really debatable?
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Why don't you ask that poster if that phrase has nothing to do with soviets and get back to me. Don't accuse me of stanning for soviets just because you're ignorant.
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I'm not shrugging off anybody, I'm saying this fervor in the broader Liberal sphere should stick around when we're doing it to other people as well, not just when it happens to us. Otherwise it's obnoxious and self-centered.
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Because my tone has nothing to do with how these important issue will be handled, so I'll talk about it however I feel like. Sometimes humans use a light tone when conversing about all manner of subject matter, you see, and I'm not a fan of literal tone policing. I'm not a fan of Trump , to say the least, nor Tulsi. I'm not a fan of liberals and Americans who take literally zero responsibility for Trump's election because making it all russia's fault is much easier than looking at or addressing systematic issues that led us to this point. I'm not a fan of bullshit, and the way the slightest critique or apt comparison to a country liberals see as beneath them leads immediately to attempted smearing (are you a soviet? MAGA Trumper!? TULSI FAN!!??) is so silly.
It's almost worth it for him to run just to see Warren dismantle him at the debates.
He did 15 events in 3 days and now is doing events in Wisconsin lol
As far as Russia's interference in our elections goes, I really feel like all that needs to be said on that topic was covered by Citations Needed, and more people should give them a listen.
Like with her support for Assad you can at least trace the timeline and beliefs that got her there. For thinking that Trump is trying to distance himself from Putin AND that it's causing threats of nuclear war is just tremendously dumb.
To be fair to Pete, he is at least explicit that he wants single payer as an end goal, with the buy in as a way to transition there.
It's still the only area I wish he'd come out stronger though, and just go straight for single payer, even though he's still my favorite. But realistically in the end, Medicare buy in transition to single payer was always the most likely way to get it through Congress.
Yeah, how exactly has Trump tried to distance himself from Putin? He's been defending him and bending over backwards for the last 2 years.
Imagine doing all these events despite not having any strong political convictions. I'm starting to think he just really likes attention.
He's a poster. He lives for the likes, quotes, and retwteets. He was born for this.
I love when people constantly deflect criticism of our own country's misdeeds and failings onto russia. Lol
He puts in work like no other when it comes to ground game. Dudes getting big crowds at his stops too, I'd definitely lean toward online circles underestimating him at the moment.
Sure, but what's the relevance to this thread?
Usually, when somebody's deflecting to the US' misdeeds, its in threads where that pivot is clearly off-topic.
We can talk about how the 2016 election was hacked without having to have a debate on every American misstep going back 100 years.
We can also say that we hope being hacked gives us some empathy and perspective for other countries and our own history, and might make us think twice about our own intervention tactics in the future, right? It's relevant because international policy is something presidential nominees should be aware of and talking about, and if someone wants to be president, having such a myopic view as "russia is the reason for trump" doesn't give me confidence in their future international or domestic policy decisions.
I hope that makes sense.
Fans and non fans alike, can we all agree that Beto looks kind of like a posed mannequin in photographs?
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It's makes sense, and it's fair. Still, it's somewhat of a reach.
This is 2020 Dem Primary thread. Talking about how the Dems were hacked by Russia in the leadup to the 2016 primaries is a fair and closely related topic.
I think looking at the whole context of these situations is important for discussing them, especially when people are pointedly asking others "what should we do about russia?" Especially since a lot of the interfering we have done destabilizing other countries in the past has come from the question "what should we do about russia?"
But I'll steer clear of the topic in here from now on because being accused of being a soviet stan and a trump supporter for it isn't good for my health.
All I want from 2020 is 51-52 senate seats. Whatever the best way to achieve that goal is what matters most.
That's what most matters for making sure we have a progressive agenda and a Dem President, nearly any Dem, who is there to sign the bills into law. As major policy is written in congress not the White House.
While some will analyze the sloppy start from minute to minute, this is betos endurance. His ground game is ridiculous, he visited every county in Texas.
Half of the time when I check Facebook he's live. He's live in Wisconsin right now.
Beto getting senate seats to flip would be great. Beto causing senate seats to stagnate by refusing to endorse the democrat tho... lul
This man can excite folks, I know because I've been to one of his rallies. These things are only going to continue to grow as the campaign goes on. He's incredibly inspiring.
One of his stops in Wisconsin (his only stop in Wisconsin? Not quite sure how many he was doing there) had a crowd out the door this morning.
When he went offline for the last time after his Senate campaign it kind of felt like losing a friend, lol. I'd occasionally have his stream on as background noise.
If you think the democratic nominee for president wouldn't endorse the senate seats that is really really reaching lol. The Hurd thing was stupid as fuck just like Biden with GOP congressman in Michigan but no matter who the Dem nominee is they are not going to campaign against a Dem nominee for senate. They are the top of they ticket nationally. Being the top of the ticket for the entire country means you essentially control the party and the responsibility that entails. Same reason why you wouldnt see Bernie endorse primary challengers if he became President. Having control of the senate is the only way to get policy through so for the selfish intent to have a impactful first term all nominees would work on that.
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It's the separating factor between him and the field, his campaign is going to look radically different from any other candidate. Even Bernie's campaign is running like a polished, standard campaign so far.
Dude is a machine with his self live coverage of his campaign, which could even be the way to counter the "Trump all day" media cycle.
You act like the election was close. Clinton got slaughtered.
I think Beto can win, the reason i don't support him is that i don't know what he would do with that win.
I hope he uses his campaigning powers for good and runs for president and senate at the same time.
I hope he uses his campaigning powers for good and runs for president and senate at the same time.
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