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2020 Democratic Presidential Primary | OT | Hickenlooper makes it to the debate
- Thread starter pigeon
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i'm really liking this "someone else" character. seems to have a lot of support
Once someone else becomes someone, anyone, that number will tank.
Still not good for Trump to be tied or under water in Texas at this stage.
After running and winning the Dem primaries there, but that is not the same as running in the presidential primaries. The US is not Vermont. He's like a rock star there.
Kirblah's point was that those loyal Dem votes to win the nomination, he can't do it all with independent votes. The DNC has nothing to do with it, they don't have to when he chooses a path that cuts himself off from the nomination.
Bernie's free to leave the party at will, running in the presidential primaries of the Democratic party isn't a right.
No, just that he keep the (D) next to his name after winning of the party he's running for president in. He's not obligated to run for president, he can stay a senator in Vermont. Either he wants to lead the party, or he doesn't - there is no third option where he kept the (I) without massive backlash.
Running for president relies on him building coalitions with people like that, and it's why hew as able to build the anti-Hillary coalition. They weren't all policy die hards. It's Bernie's job to convince them to vote for his policy, not the Democratic party's.
If that was all you did nobody would talk about you. That's not what Bernie's doing lol
But then you would complain that he is a spoiler.
Putting the D next to his name ain't gonna make the people don't like him in the party like him.
Is there a specific reason he has to run for president, despite putting the country in jeopardy? If he wanted the job that badly he'd have no problem signing up to our side to avoid that situation - or simply stay a senator. It's not like he hasn't got various people running for president taking up his banner, including Elisabeth Warren herself.
No, but it'd be one less disadvantage and he needs all he can get to win the nomination. He is not appealing to just me, either, there's millions of loyal Dems he needs to convert to get that job.
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He isn't putting the country in jeopardy, he is running on the Dem ticket and will endorse the nominee if he doesn't get it. Elisabeth Warren is my senator and she is amazing but she isn't further left than Bernie.
I've literally seen you complain about AOC, who has a D next to her name, because she doesn't seem to play well with others in party. Her policies and views clash with people in her own party. The D means nothing, policies is what matters.
The argument you made was that he would run as an independent in the presidential election. No, but she's much better with policy making and working with the Democratic party to make it happen in congress. You don't need Bernie, you need the best politician to get his policies enacted and Bernie himself was never going to get them enacted by going to the furthest left.
My views with AOC are complicated. She's done many things I disagree with but she's also done many things I love and lately she's been impressing me more and more on the things I was skeptical about her earlier - like increasing her wonkish credentials and focusing on being a professional politician in the House. Which is what I've been wanting her to do in the first place lol I've been hard on her is because I want her to live up to her full potential to move the party left, Bernie is a lost cause who needs to be dragging kicking and screaming into the 21st century. I like her a lot more than I ever did with Bernie and one of those reasons is that she is a Democrat to her bones. She runs for POTUS, she's not doing this independent bullshit.
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First of all I have a hard time believing any good left policy is going to be enacted no matter the nominee with the way this government functions. At that point, I want the furthest person so set the tone and keep pushing.
Bernie literally moved the party left, most the candidates are running on his 2016 platform. It looks like that lost cause was the one that dragged the party kicking and screaming into the 21st century. Also miss me with being Democrat to the bones being a good thing, when the party has no fucking problem trying to destroy Ilhan Omar a DEMOCRAT, portraying her as anti-semite because she is critical of Israel and AIPAC.
That's a recipe for his policies dying.
Bernie may have kicked it off but that's where his major contribution ended. His policies got in better hands when other people, like the Justice Democrats, and the various leftist political groups became engaged and moved the party left. You don't need Bernie when you have AOC, who can move mountains on social media from her seat in congress, and a good portion of the politicians running are using a variant of his platform. The movement grew outside his shadow the second AOC was elected, and a newer, more robust leftist vision is coalescing without his guidance. Because Bernie doesn't have anything to do wth the movement like that, aside from photo shoots and borrowing AOC's scraps.
I didn't say the party was perfect, this is one of its many flaws which the left should be cleaning up from the inside. You want the party to change, be the change!
It's a very different thing to say you're "considering" Fox News, and to actually decide on Fox News. This is clickbait/manufactured outrage. If they do choose to have a debate on that propaganda channel, then that'll be something to get outraged about.
Did you even read my sentence? I want the person furthest left.
I didn't know that AOC could run for president that is news to me. The movement should outgrow him and it is but he is still one of the figureheads. It also seems that he is still really relevant going by his donations and the fact 39% of those donations came from email addresses that had never before been used to give to Bernie. This totally sounds like someone that is borrowing scraps. Just because you want him to be irrelevant doesn't mean he is and the data doesn't support it.
He is part of the leadership, caucuses with the party, has changed the party. The D would just be appease people like you and even then would barely change your view of him.
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It could be argued she doesn't need to to be a rival to his influence on the left, Bernie never had that type of influence until he ran for president. That's all he is, a figurehead, AOC is the one leading on the front lines. The primaries are a marathon, not a sprint - let's see him hold that up at the height of the primaries first before saying he's got this, and it remains to be seen how he uses that money while campaigning. Where's the data that he's deeply embedded in the movement leading it? He still seems to be coasting off '16, and his followers haven't caught on that the movement has made him irrelevant.
But still not a Democrat, if he was 20 years younger they'd never be voting him as Majority Leader. They're not giving him real power, that's why he wants to be president.
Without voters like me voting for him he won't get the nomination, and the more left leaning voters who would be on his side before have a smorgasbord of candidates to fulfil their political appetites.
He released a year but said he will get more years out. Again once it's released, will it make him more electable or is this some facade concern and it won't matter anyways to you?
He isn't a democrat. It's quite simple. He's using the party for his run this go around as he did last one.
I never said he has this and you haven't shown me anything that proves that is irrelevant now.
Yeah that is why everyone runs for president, real power.
D or I next to his name, you are not voting for him in the primary so you can drop the fake concern on that front.
So what? Are his policies good or not.
You keep going in circles. Bernie Sanders is the most left wing democrat and one of like 2 reliably left wing people with any hopes of winning. Stop projecting your own disdain onto people.
idk why everybody's so cynical all the time. people run for president for more than their ego. it's not naive; I think a lot of republicans also run for president to make the world a better place. they're just wrong about what makes the world a better place.
I just don't understand why this isn't the end of that whole debate right here. Why does it matter whether or not Bernie is a slavish Democratic Party loyalist?
We have an extinction level event a generation or two removed from us right now and some people's top priority is "Yeah but what is Bernie's opinion of Debbie Wasserman Schultz!?".
If his policies are good then he should run as an independent. Or you know, dont just add a D to his name for the durartion of a Presidential run. Simple as that. Fact is he knows he wouldnt win as an independent.
And he's old as dirt. Why the hell is he running at almost 80 years old? Old white dude running when we have younger people who are just as capaple, great policies, and not old white dudes.
Fact is no one wins in this country if they run as an independent, all they do is spoil.
User Banned (3 Days): Personal attacks against and misrepresenting another member
AOC can't run yet.
Also interesting how intensly you try to erase that he is a Jew.
Lol. I couldnt give two shits if he is a jew..he's an old ass white male at a time when POC have basically been saving our republic and are continuing to be attacked. Time for him to get out of the way.
So it's only AOC? Lol ok. Nobody else that is progressive but her and Bernie lol..
"Progressive" is not the be-all-end-all. Bernie is a self-described socialist and is the only person so-described with a chance of winning the nomination, he has also consistently held these beliefs for decades. Anyone can call themselves "Progressive" when they're media savvy and have been in politics for a quarter of the time.
Seriously, I don't think some people here appropriately understand the risk of electing another liberal technocrat that works within the existing system, doesn't step on too many toes, and respects the power of capital. What comes after that is, in all likelihood, a much more frighteningly competent version of Trump, and at that point, it's all over.
Seriously, I don't think some people here appropriately understand the risk of electing another liberal technocrat that works within the existing system, doesn't step on too many toes, and respects the power of capital. What comes after that is, in all likelihood, a much more frighteningly competent version of Trump, and at that point, it's all over.
There are a grand total of three democratic socialists in Congress. If you want a democratic socialist to win, your options are Bernie, Rashida, and AOC. That's it.
I was on negoaf last election. you guys said the same thing about Hillary being progressive. no one buys it.
Lol...so Elizabeth Warren and Hillary are the same ideologically? Kamala is the same? Really? LOL. Ok bud.
Harris, Booker, Castro and Yang are all running no one is stopping them. I vote for people that most align with my views which currently is Bernie, it isn't rocket science.
Why would I, as a socialist, want a non-socialist to win if I could have a socialist instead? Do you know what primaries are for?
Ahhh so its only bernie that can save the Republic. Talk about contributing to the god complex of the man and his followers.
Progressive has turned into a meaningless buzzword to mean "politician I like."
To be fair, he started it by starting a Senate campaign 5 years in advance.
but why are you even acting like this. out of like the 15 people running for president, there are maybe 3 people I'd describe as progressive and none of them are to the left of Bernie, except maybe Elizabeth Warren on certain issues. you're acting like we have a ton of options, when it's really, what? Kamala, Butigieg, and Warren.
And most Dems in this country are not socialists...but let me guess, that means they aren't progressive...
It has nothing to do with something innate to Bernie himself - it's just that I believe only a person committed to uprooting the system as it stands today in a more egalitarian direction has a chance of averting the (and I cannot overstate how serious they are) disasters that are coming. Liberalism has not been up to the task and has really only floundered around in a puddle for 30-40 years aside from moments of social progress.
I would vote for Elizabeth Warren relatively happily but she's still a person committed to the system, she just thinks it needs to work "better" and doesn't realize it's already working very much as intended.
They're to the right of Sanders. How is this difficult to understand?
And again, if someone is a socialist then vote for him in the primary and if he loses vote for whoever the nominee is. Fact is most people are not socialists. Fact is we have fantastic liberals this go around who have just as much of a chance to beat Trump as bernie and ones whod do just as amazing as President.
Get out of the way for who, though? The only current candidate who's even close to him ideologically is Warren who's also white and pretty old (and explicitly trying to posture herself has more moderate than Bernie even if her actual platform isn't all that different.) Everyone who's younger/PoC/etc. is either closer to him ideologically but can't run (AOC) or has positions/baggage that the leftist/DemSoc part of the spectrum sees as a deal-breaker (Harris, Booker.)
Most leftie/DemSoc people who I follow on Twitter's take on Bernie isn't "he is our one true lord and savior who will rescue us from the Republicans/centrist Dems and deliver to us a glorious socialist utopia" so much as "he's not remotely perfect particularly on issues like race but he's the best we'll get in this primary in terms of people who match my views so I'll back him."
It mainly just has to be someone with Leftist credibility, which is basically Bernie right now. He's been the most consistent for the longest.
Edit: who are these "fantastic candidates"? It's a weak-ass bench. Only Bernie, Harris, and Warren are mounting credible challenges right now.
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You have a habit of discounting labels used by the left, which really just comes across as trying to shield the center and blur the lines. Progressives and neoliberals aren't real things apparently because the only legitimate liberal ideology for you is firmly center leaning.
You're making predictions about tbe downside of the "safe choice" that lack evidence or substantiation aside from gut instinct about how people will vote *two presidential elections from now*.
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