They don't go into the volleyball thing, but it's definitely weird. I read a bunch of articles from people thinking the same thing.
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2020-21 Season TV Cancellations/Pilots: Everything's Not Gonna Be Okay for Punky, Betty, Dickinson, or Sarah
- Thread starter mreddie
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- Entertainment OT
They don't go into the volleyball thing, but it's definitely weird. I read a bunch of articles from people thinking the same thing.
Sunday night's ratings. ABC's "Supermarket Sweep" debuted last night to a solid 1.0, but of course nothing can top football:
http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articles/the-sked-sunday-network-scorecard-10-18-2020.html
http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articles/the-sked-sunday-network-scorecard-10-18-2020.html
This might be a masterstroke by CBS. Show has legs, for sure.
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Wow, football stayed up and not baseball because that game was a close oneSunday night's ratings. ABC's "Supermarket Sweep" debuted last night to a solid 1.0, but of course nothing can top football:
http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articles/the-sked-sunday-network-scorecard-10-18-2020.html
Channing Dungey Named Chairman of Warner Bros. TV Group
Shortly after departing Netflix, Channing Dungey has landed at Warner Bros. TV.
www.hollywoodreporter.com
Not really. Think it was just another form of control. They mention in the documentary that he was pretty enigmatic/intentionally hid himself from all but the most upper echelons of the cult. So the volleyball games were one of the few opportunities to see, meet, and talk with him as a lower level person. And there are multiple clips of people meeting him here and him having deep conversations of bullshit with them to ingrain them further into the cult. One of those clips was of Alison Mack even. But why Volleyball specifically, I don't know. Maybe he just genuinely enjoyed it.
And not to defend the guy, because he's a fucking monster, but I don't think he's a pedophile. At least nothing in the documentary indicates he would be.
Channing Dungey Named Chairman of Warner Bros. TV Group
Shortly after departing Netflix, Channing Dungey has landed at Warner Bros. TV.
In 2 years she signed a bunch of these mega deals for Netflix and just left. What will happen to some of these talents, will they follow her?
Spoilers for season two I guess but
One of the charges Keith was convicted of is "Sexual exploitation of a child and possession of child pornography"
Ah, interesting. Well, didn't know that. Also seems kinda counter to his MO as presented in the doc, but it will be interesting to see how that plays out.
I would expect a couple would. I think, at the moment, Barris is a prime candidate to jump ship since he hasn't produced much for Netflix and the one thing he has isn't setting the world on fire.
Yikes!!
The first season definitely had many flaws, but I did enjoy it. I'll probably watch season 2.
And I'm giving serious side-eye to the people saying they don't have any sympathy for the victims. I don't believe anybody saying that they (or their loved ones) are so balanced that they will never fall prey to such things. These organizations prey on vulnerable people by giving them community and love. Nobody can pretend they'll never face enough hardship in their life that they won't ever get vulnerable to cults like these.
The thing to understand is that you cannot educate or berate people into not joining cults. That's not how it works. The only way to stop shit like this is by making sure society can meet people's needs, changing the conditions that push people to these cults. Because these predatory organizations are unfortunately the only place some people can find to fill the emotional void they have in their life. The hundreds of members of the organization in this documentary weren't just dumb, simple-minded people.
Anyway, while not perfect, I thought the show gave a good insight into what a modern cult can look like.
Also, speaking of The Vow, this made me laugh:
Yeah, I don't mean to say Mark and others are presented as overly sympathetic, but I also think the doc is a little coy about being critical or drawing specific conclusions about how the cult operated and who it preyed on, and thus on some of the personality traits of the doc's main characters. There's a lot for viewers to read between the lines of and dots to connect, but it holds back from scrutinizing how the cult systematically targeted people primed to buy this pseudo-intellectual garbage, and simultaneously to push away and vilify skeptics and real critical thinkers. The doc's more explicit about how people were conditioned for more extreme behaviors once they became members (ie. leading the women into DOS) than about entry itself. There's a lot of talk about how normal people can be sucked into the group, but there's limited inspection of that claim. I suspect this is a byproduct of turning the same people into the protagonists of the story, and of the documentarians being so reliant on their footage and continued participation.
I'm not sure anyone said they don't have sympathy. I didn't. I just also don't think the doc gave proper context for Mark Vicente's background, and that really jumped out at me from the moment of his introduction since I knew something about him prior (I didn't follow this NXIVM news at all really, so had no idea he was involved until the doc). There's a reason he climbed so high so fast and it's not just because he had media experience, it's because he also previously had explicit interests in woo-woo pseudoscience and psychobabble. I think ignoring that kind of thing is missing part of the story.
I don't disagree with what you're saying, but I don't think the doc does a very good job of exploring those elements. I don't think it directly says much at all about "making sure society can meet people's needs, changing the conditions that push people to these cults." I don't think there's much inspection of the circumstances that allow a group like this to thrive. It's lacking an outside voice, which I think problematically allows the characters in charge of the narrative and narrow its scope.
Like, somewhat tangentially, I'd have loved a moment of exploration about the Mexican chapter of the cult in last night's episode. We get to see a little of Raniere talking to them, and Vicente says it was full of wealthy people and that there's money down there, but it doesn't go beyond that. I'd have loved a little discussion about why the group was attracting a very particular slice of the population, and the interactions between their class status and greater Mexican social problems.
Oh! I didn't necessarily mean "in this thread". But it's something I'm hearing a lot in various discussions about this show.
Yeah, I think you're right. I do agree this show has many flaws. It's far from being perfect... I'm curious to see how season 2 will turn out.
But ultimately, like I said, I liked how it gave some insight into what a modern cult can look like.
Listen, I'm not one of those that doesn't have sympathy for the victims, but I do acknowledge it takes a certain type of personality to be prone to indoctrination and psycho babble and likewise there's personalities that are never going to be that. So yeah, I can tell you that no matter what my emotional state, my skeptical and analytical approach to life will keep me from buying into any type of guru or self proclaimed genius.
If I can chose to reject Catholicism at age 8 as the pastor comes to class to indoctrinate us in preparation of the first communion, I feel confident that as an adult I'd not fall for Keith's nonsense.
That said, cult members are victims, whether it's this cult or something more prolific like Scientology, those that make it out and those that actively start fighting it especially should be supported. No matter how high up they were in the organization, they all fell victim to systematic indoctrination, and that's tough to beat.
I totally understand the sentiment. All I can say is that what you are describing is you in the present, and it was you in the past. How can you be that certain about your future? How can you be so sure that there won't be any type of hardship or tragedy happening to your future self that would leave you a bit vulnerable and in serious need of a community and recognition? I can promise you that no matter who you are and what you're believing in, you can't be certain that it 100% cannot happen to you. It maybe wouldn't be a something exactly like what's in the documentary, but these things come in many forms and in many flavors.
It probably and hopefully won't happen to you, but having the conviction that one is 100% above all of this is misunderstanding how these things work. As I said, people cannot be educated about not joining a cult. You can be sure that if us as a society don't find ways to be there for people that find themselves angry, alone, or in need of guidance (for whatever reasons), cults will be there. It's not a question of personality types or intelligence.
Surely personality types and "intelligence" do play a role? Personality especially. Some people desire personal contact more than others, wouldn't they be more susceptible?
I do agree that there is probably no one who is truly immune -- we just haven't been put in the life situation that would make us susceptible to it.
I have sympathy for them, and while I believe I would never fall victim to such indoctrination, I certainly know many could, or would. It isn't the fact that they were simply indoctrinated into/joined a cult. It is that these particular individuals also rose to very high positions within it, recruited many more into it, and tried their best to defend its leader and go after those who sought to take him down before they had their own awakening to what they were doing. Beyond that, Sarah also admits in the documentary to entering into a relationship of being someone's "slave" and having her own "slaves", as well as holding down other naked women and having them branded. Not to say she isn't a victim too, of course she is, but she can simultaneously be a perpetrator, and I believe she was. There was a line that was crossed. And while I think it is very plausible that many many many people are susceptible to being indoctrinated into a cult like NXIVM/ESP, the DOS shit was quite a large step beyond that into something actively malicious and dangerous.
This right here. Emotionality is one aspect of it, as Conditional-Pancakes correctly argues, but there are other aspects to it, too. And that mix is where the susceptibility to those particular thing lies.
I can guarantee you I will never be the person to join a cult or start believing in pseudoscience or complot theories. Not because I can't get emotional, but simply because my personality regardless of emotional state is not such that would ever be open to it.
I'd sooner be an alcoholic or drug addict than a cult follower, so to say.
But that's a personality thing, not an emotional thing, and it just differs from person to person.
That's a very interesting discussion I think. One thing is certain is that this documentary, even with all its (many) flaws, shows that cults in general are far from being a relic of the past, unfortunately.
Mike White is back on HBO!
www.hollywoodreporter.com
HBO Snags Limited Series From ‘Enlightened’ Creator Mike White
HBO has ordered a limited series called <em>The White Lotus</em> from <em>Enlightened</em> creator Mike White.
www.hollywoodreporter.com
Mike White is back on HBO!
HBO Snags Limited Series From ‘Enlightened’ Creator Mike White
HBO has ordered a limited series called <em>The White Lotus</em> from <em>Enlightened</em> creator Mike White.
OMFG
Throughout the entire show I constantly thought of the 35-42% of Americans who fully buy in to what the GOP or Trump are selling. It's indoctrination on a mass scale.
The trick is getting someone slightly invested in the beginning. Once you've taken that small step it becomes easy to control people. Most people are so deathly afraid of admitting that they were wrong to believe the initial lie that they will bend over backwards to justify it. In the end the victim does most of the heavy lifting of keeping the lie alive
It’s… Fall TV Calendar, The Sequel! 85+ Late October/November Dates to Save
Get October/November premiere dates for "This Is Us," "Grey's Anatomy," "The Mandalorian," #OneChicago and more!
tvline.com
RatskyWatsky here's a cheat sheet to get you started on your November thread. lol
didnt even know about an animaniacs revival...is it weekly, all at once or???It’s… Fall TV Calendar, The Sequel! 85+ Late October/November Dates to Save
Get October/November premiere dates for "This Is Us," "Grey's Anatomy," "The Mandalorian," #OneChicago and more!
RatskyWatsky here's a cheat sheet to get you started on your November thread. lol
also didnt realize For Life Season 2 had been recording and everything. Nice.
It's Hulu, so probably weekly after a multi episode premiere.
The Crown: Dominic West Set to Play Prince Charles in Season 5 (Report)
Dominic West ('The Wire,' 'The Affair') will reportedly play Prince Charles in Season 5 of the Netflix royal drama 'The Crown.'
tvline.com
Okay seriously what the fuck? I'm gonna have to stop watching shows on release on Netflix.
This one is not even need any punch.
Is it top Nelsen Tv Rating first week? Netflix need to bill their show limited series becaus most of them will be cancelled first season.
I really need to find a way to get TV news to me lol
I just found out about the West Wing reunion special and as much as I hate modern Sorkin, there's something comfortable about seeing everyone back again performing political fan fiction - particularly given the nightmare world we live in now. lol
I just found out about the West Wing reunion special and as much as I hate modern Sorkin, there's something comfortable about seeing everyone back again performing political fan fiction - particularly given the nightmare world we live in now. lol
Just stick to Deadline lol. They like the fastest tv news. And I love how readable their site is, much easier to follow than Variety and Hollywood Reporter.
Between COVID and the complete turnover on the TV side of things for Netflix I expect to see a lot more cancellations coming.
I mean, I didn't watch a ton of stuff on Netflix (before I cancelled my sub, of course) anymore. For one, they released too much stuff and they were competing for my TV time with other services, so there wasn't even time. For another, their cancellation method of waiting two months and then cancelling a show made it more logical to not watch anything until you're sure it's not cancelled.
They're really shooting themselves in the foot here with their business model. Too many shows, greenlight everything, cancel everything. It's just such a devaluation of your service, especially now that they're increasingly losing out legacy shows people might watch on there, they need to be a reliable outlet.
At the moment, I'd sooner watch something on HBO Max, Amazon, or Apple TV+, than something on Netflix, because at least I know I won't get stung there.
I'm curious about their internal numbers, because it seemed like Away did well when it launched. I remember seeing it in the Top 10 for a number of weeks. Maybe it was expensive vs. the numbers it brought in, but I can't imagine something like Teenage Bounty Hunters being that expensive with no big star like Hillary Swank fronting it and I saw TBH in the Top 10 as well.
I'm guessing that isn't a good metric to measure the likelihood of a show being renewed going forward.
That's a bit surprising, as it was in their top 10 for a while.
Their top 10 means nothing. Dark Crystal was in the top 10 for a while and that didn't save it. I wouldn't be shocked if it isn't tied to numbers now, you know.
Dark Crystal was super expensive, so there's that factor of it, too.
Aside from that, I think Netflix really suffers from their binge-release style. There's a reason almost nobody does it anymore (except for shows they have no faith in to begin with), there's value in letting a show's episode marinate for a week and allow it to be discussed outside of the household. It also would help with their need to release 8 new shows and movies every week if you can stretch a show over a longer period.
I have a feeling beside their mega hit series that will get a pity 3-seasons (because they want to avoid negotiating new contracts which mean all talents will get a raise). Maybe Netflix don't care if any other series finished or not, good or not or even have decent rating. Their internal research must show that if they continue to streaming new tv series a week, 52 tv series a year, people will continue to subscribe. Like throwable junk foods.
Netflix market cap is bigger than a whole Disney for some times now, I don't think they will change their way any time soon.
P/s:
https://deadline.com/2020/10/jane-wiseman-exits-netflix-vp-original-series-1234598609/
One more long time VP exits. I guess because Netflix will focus more on international productions. I also notice things like The Social Dilemma and true crime documentaries, , superstars documentaries like Taylor Swift or BlackPink often debut no.1 in my country. I wonder if they are cheaper to make than tv shows.
Netflix market cap is bigger than a whole Disney for some times now, I don't think they will change their way any time soon.
P/s:
https://deadline.com/2020/10/jane-wiseman-exits-netflix-vp-original-series-1234598609/
One more long time VP exits. I guess because Netflix will focus more on international productions. I also notice things like The Social Dilemma and true crime documentaries, , superstars documentaries like Taylor Swift or BlackPink often debut no.1 in my country. I wonder if they are cheaper to make than tv shows.
I wouldn't say that their Top 10 means nothing, but I also don't think their US Top 10, which I believe is all US subscribers can view, paints the full picture. 'Away' might have done well enough in the US, but could have bombed most everywhere else. Given its presumed limited appeal on the global stage, they probably couldn't justify the cost to keep it around just for US audiences.
International markets are absolutely huge for Netflix and going forward they'll probably dictate most of what sticks around long term barring the rare US centric phenom (like if Stranger Things hit the zeitgeist in the US but didn't do well outside the US, I'd expect Netflix to keep it around anyway).
Reading between the lines Away was exec produced by Matt Reeves and while he doesn't have his Tv deal with Netflix (that's with WB) he does have a big money film deal with them...
Looks like Netflix aren't in the business of keeping their talent happy with random, big money renewals anymore.
This.
Looks like Netflix aren't in the business of keeping their talent happy with random, big money renewals anymore.
This.
Away seemed like it got next to no buzz and it looked reasonably expensive to produce. There really wasn't any sense that it could be a long term grower.