2020-21 Season TV Cancellations/Pilots: Everything's Not Gonna Be Okay for Punky, Betty, Dickinson, or Sarah

TDLink · Dec 11, 2020

CrichtonKicks said:
Very true. However, anecdotal and all of that, I feel like I see a fair bit of buzz for Virgin River. I've never even heard of Top Boy though.

Even with something like Cobra Kai it's weird- that show had already been out for two years and was very well thought of but it's release on Netflix essentially turned it into a brand new series. And while Cobra Kai ticks the boxes that so many others are going for (revitalizing an existing IP), it's far cheaper to make with decidedly less star power that a lot of other revivals.

I think that really gets into why Netflix seems to be moving away from the huge creative deals they were making a few years ago. They are going to get a far better ROI on a limited series from Scott Frank than they probably will from the entire Ryan Murphy deal even with Ratched's success.

Well in Cobra Kai's case it was just a matter of no one, literally no one, wanting to pay for YouTube Premium so never actually being exposed to the series. But yes, Cobra Kai is ultimately a very low budget utilization of existing IP opposed to, say, The Witcher.

The mega overall deals were, frankly, a mistake. I am sure they know that. They've produced virtually nothing of substance for Netflix.

Weren't most of those announced a long time ago? I feel like a lot of that stuff is from the era of the big money creative deals. With how 2020 is panning out I kind of wonder if they will pair back on some of these kind of deals moving forward.

Some were, some weren't. You will see more of these types of investments from Netflix in the future though. They are going to need them to stay competitive with Disney, WB, and Amazon as they start rolling out huge budget shows based on existing IP.

CrichtonKicks · Dec 11, 2020

TDLink said:
Well in Cobra Kai's case it was just a matter of no one, literally no one, wanting to pay for YouTube Premium so never actually being exposed to the series. But yes, Cobra Kai is ultimately a very low budget utilization of existing IP opposed to, say, The Witcher.

Even The Witcher comes out looking like a good bang for their buck series in the hunt for the next GoT. It had to be cheaper to make than Amazon's LoTR, Wheel of Time, and probably HBO"s GoT Spinoff series.

These networks can pour hundreds of millions of dollars into a series but in the end all it takes is a catchy "Toss a Coin to Your Witcher" tune to turn your series into a mainstream hit.

TDLink · Dec 11, 2020

CrichtonKicks said:
Even The Witcher comes out looking like a good bang for their buck series in the hunt for the next GoT. It had to be cheaper to make than Amazon's LoTR, Wheel of Time, and probably HBO"s GoT Spinoff series.

These networks can pour hundreds of millions of dollars into a series but in the end all it takes is a catchy "Toss a Coin to Your Witcher" tune to turn your series into a mainstream hit.

It's definitely cheaper than all those you mentioned, but still is pretty expensive. Don't forget you're mostly talking about future shows there as well. Comparing to the current fantasy landscape, it's more expensive than any released fantasy show, Game of Thrones aside. And the #2 after that is... also an existing IP Netflix show: Dark Crystal Age of Resistance.

CrichtonKicks · Dec 11, 2020

TDLink said:
It's definitely cheaper than all those you mentioned, but still is pretty expensive. Don't forget you're mostly talking about future shows there as well. Comparing to the current fantasy landscape, it's more expensive than any released fantasy show, Game of Thrones aside. And the #2 after that is... also an existing IP Netflix show: Dark Crystal Age of Resistance.

Oh, yeah, totally agree there.

RolandGunner · Dec 11, 2020

Margaret Qualley seems like an odd choice to play Ginger Rogers but we'll see how it goes.

Jamie Bell And Margaret Qualley To Star in ‘Fred & Ginger’ For Amazon And Automatik; Biopic Tells Story Behind Fred Astaire And Ginger Rogers Relationship

Fred & Ginger will star Jamie Bell and Margaret Qualley as the iconic dancing pair Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers.

deadline.com

Joni · Dec 11, 2020

CrichtonKicks said:
I think that really gets into why Netflix seems to be moving away from the huge creative deals they were making a few years ago. They are going to get a far better ROI on a limited series from Scott Frank than they probably will from the entire Ryan Murphy deal even with Ratched's success.

Ryan Murphy at least seems to be delivering, ROI on Shonda's deal must be a lot less interesting.

RolandGunner · Dec 11, 2020

Joni said:
Ryan Murphy at least seems to be delivering, ROI on Shonda's deal must be a lot less interesting.

Netflix paying Kenya Barris tens of millions of dollars to create content for Disney and prep his Richard Pryor biopic with MGM has to be the worst of those deals.

KingFox · Dec 11, 2020

To further illustrate The Queen's Gambit success; almost 7 weeks after it came out it is still a top 3/5 listed show around the world. This is a seven episode long binge watch chess drama we're talking about. That's nuts.

https://www.whats-on-netflix.com/most-popular/?dateselect=12/11/2020

Remember how certain people were trying to massively downplay that Netflix press release about the show. Beth remembers.

Chitown B · Dec 11, 2020

lol. great series.

CrichtonKicks · Dec 11, 2020

Joni said:
Ryan Murphy at least seems to be delivering, ROI on Shonda's deal must be a lot less interesting.

I will see that the Bridgerton trailer looked *way* more accessible than I thought it would be based on the early descriptions.

And I think the December 25th release is smart. I think they could get a lot of buzz going over the holidays like they did with Bird Box and The Witcher.

Joni · Dec 11, 2020

RolandGunner said:
Netflix paying Kenya Barris tens of millions of dollars to create content for Disney and prep his Richard Pryor biopic with MGM has to be the worst of those deals.

Barris deal has released blackAF and Astronomy Club. Shonda deal has released squat. And she has the better deal.

RolandGunner · Dec 11, 2020

Joni said:
Barris deal has released blackAF and Astronomy Club. Shonda deal has released squat. And she has the better deal.

Not great! Bridgerton had better be a big hit over the holidays.

Deleted member 5853 · Dec 11, 2020

‘Game of Thrones’ Prequel ‘House of the Dragon’ Adds Matt Smith, Olivia Cooke, Emma D’Arcy

"Game of Thrones" prequel "House of the Dragon" has found more Targaryens: Olivia Cooke, Emma D'Arcy, Matt Smith join the main cast.

variety.com

Cooke, known from Amazon's "Sound of Metal," is set to star as Alicent Hightower, the daughter of Hand of the King Otto Hightower who was raised in the Red Keep, close to the king and his inner circle. Described as "the most comely woman in the Seven Kingdoms," Hightower has both "courtly grace and a keen political acumen."

Cooke has several other upcoming projects slated for 2021, including feature "Pixie" opposite Alec Baldwin and sci-fi thriller "Little Fish" opposite Jack O'Connell. She also appears in this year's "Naked Singularity" opposite John Boyega.

D'Arcy will star as Princess Rhaenyra Targaryen, the king's first-born, pure Valyrian-blooded child who is a dragonrider. Some say Rhaenyra was "born with everything… but she was not born a man." The theater performer's stage credits include "The Crucible" at the Yard Theatre and "Against" at the Almeida Theatre; on TV, D'Arcy has appeared in Amazon Prime's "Truth Seekers" and "Hannah II" and BBC/Netflix's "Wanderlust." She recently wrapped filming on the feature adaptation of "Mothering Sunday."

Smith is set to play Prince Daemon Targaryen, King Viserys' younger brother and heir to the throne. Described as a "peerless warrior and a dragonrider, Daemon possesses the true blood of the dragon. But it is said that whenever a Targaryen is born, the gods toss a coin in the air…"

Conditional-Pancakes · Dec 11, 2020

KingFox said:
To further illustrate The Queen's Gambit success; almost 7 weeks after it came out it is still a top 3/5 listed show around the world. This is a seven episode long binge watch chess drama we're talking about. That's nuts.

https://www.whats-on-netflix.com/most-popular/?dateselect=12/11/2020

Remember how certain people were trying to massively downplay that Netflix press release about the show. Beth remembers.

lol! This gif is perfect!

Rhaknar · Dec 12, 2020

Since you're talking about it, I noticed The Queen's Gambit was randomly the #1 show in Portugal today again.

Pluto · Dec 12, 2020

CrichtonKicks said:
That's the power of Netflix IMO. Every other startup streaming platform is pouring huge sums of money into very expensive shows based on existing IPs and yet every quarter or so Netflix just pops up with an out of left field cultural juggernaut like Tiger King or Queen's Gambit.

Throwing literally hundreds of shows at the audience and getting one per quarter to make a big splash is not impressive. They get some big hits that don't cost that much on their own but Netflix still has to pay for all the other crap barely anyone watches, they pour just as much if not more money into their programming (some of which is VERY expensive). Netflix isn't run by geniuses who know how to produce big hits for little money, they just try everything and hope for the best.

KingFox · Dec 12, 2020

Pluto said:
Throwing literally hundreds of shows at the audience and getting one per quarter to make a big splash is not impressive. They get some big hits that don't cost that much on their own but Netflix still has to pay for all the other crap barely anyone watches, they pour just as much if not more money into their programming (some of which is VERY expensive). Netflix isn't run by geniuses who know how to produce big hits for little money, they just try everything and hope for the best.

Which is no different from any other network and streamer out there. Being the global biggest they are certainly the most aggressive one about it. Still, plenty of hits though. Not everything needs to do absolute gangbusters like a Queen's Gambit to be recognized as such. There is also all the local targeted programming that could see success you might not always be aware of.

Rhaknar said:
Since you're talking about it, I noticed The Queen's Gambit was randomly the #1 show in Portugal today again.

Not just Portugal.

In case anyone's topography is a bit rusty: it's still or once again #1 in Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Egypt, Estonia, Finland, Greece, Hungary, Israel, Italy, Jordan, Kuwait, Latvia, Lebanon, Lithuania, Oman, Pakistan, Poland, Qatar, Romania, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sri Lanka, Sweden, Turkey, Ukraine and United Arab Emirates.

And again, this show came out on Oct 23.

G_Shumi · Dec 12, 2020

Friday night's ratings:

http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articles/the-sked-friday-network-scorecard-12-11-2020.html

TheNatureBoy · Dec 12, 2020

Conditional-Pancakes · Dec 12, 2020

KingFox said:
Not just Portugal.

In case anyone's topography is a bit rusty: it's still or once again #1 in Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Egypt, Estonia, Finland, Greece, Hungary, Israel, Italy, Jordan, Kuwait, Latvia, Lebanon, Lithuania, Oman, Pakistan, Poland, Qatar, Romania, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sri Lanka, Sweden, Turkey, Ukraine and United Arab Emirates.

And again, this show came out on Oct 23.

So Queen's Gambit is in the Top 10 list in...

KingFox · Dec 12, 2020

Conditional-Pancakes said:
So Queen's Gambit is in the Top 10 list in...

lol yeah pretty much.

Netflix: We have many great shows for you to enjoy!
Russia: Nah we good...

Deleted member 5853 · Dec 12, 2020

Pilot update! NBC is not going forward with its adaptation of the Kevin Hart comedy "Night School":

NBC Comedy Pilots Update: ‘American Auto’ & ‘Grand Crew’ In Contention, ‘Night School’ Not Going Forward

As many pilot cast options are coming to an end this month, the broadcast networks are making decisions on the projects that have been shot this fall. Primetime-Panic Your Complete Guide to Pilots and Straight-to-Series orders See All NBC in June committed to filming three comedy pilots this...

deadline.com

these are the two pilots that are still alive:

Written by Spitzer, American Auto is set at the headquarters of a major American automotive company in Detroit, where a floundering group of executives try to rediscover the company identity amidst a rapidly changing industry.

Grand Crew: Ensemble comedy about black people, dating and wine.

Rhaknar · Dec 12, 2020

just found out Big Mouth is already renewed up to season 6 and now I am happy

Firewithin · Dec 12, 2020

The Flight Attendant on max has been a blast so far

KingFox · Dec 12, 2020

Aiii said:
The newest Big Sky has a scene where a trucker has a hooker gargle mouth wash because there's covid-19 in this universe and this show is everything.

Finally caught up with the episode and how was that not even the best worst scene. The cereal opener, the store talk... I'm dying over here. Good music though.

dead souls · Dec 12, 2020

Firewithin said:
The Flight Attendant on max has been a blast so far

Fuck yes it has. It's such a fun watch.

RatskyWatsky · Dec 12, 2020

TDLink said:
I think Handmaid's Tale is something most people are vaguely aware of, as is its red dress/white hat iconography. So sure, it is successful enough that it entered the Zeitgeist in that way. But I'm still pretty sure its viewership is not... all that great. Basically, it's a hit for Hulu... but not a hit if we are considering the entire television landscape.

I feel like that could be said of pretty much anything on cable/premium outside of a couple shows tbh

I hadn't even heard of Normal People before this post, so I'm still not certain of its popularity, but it sounds/looks interesting just from some quick googling. I'll check it out!

What! It was all the rage earlier this year~

Rhaknar · Dec 12, 2020

what happened to the Big Mouth spin-off centered around the monsters only?

TDLink · Dec 12, 2020

RatskyWatsky said:
I feel like that could be said of pretty much anything on cable/premium outside of a couple shows tbh

Not really. There's usually at least a few cable/premium shows that are pretty popular. But Handmaid's Tale is a streaming show anyways. Compared against Netflix and Amazon's hits, Hulu's don't even register.

vhoanox · Dec 12, 2020

Isnt Normal People the BBC's biggest streaming series by far?

TDLink · Dec 12, 2020

vhoanox said:
Isnt Normal People the BBC's biggest streaming series by far?

Not hooked into the British side of things, so I have no idea about that -- but for some reason I thought it was Line of Duty.

vhoanox · Dec 12, 2020

TDLink said:
Not hooked into the British side of things, so I have no idea about that -- but for some reason I thought it was Line of Duty.

https://deadline.com/2020/12/normal-people-62m-views-record-bbc-iplayer-1234651479/

They claimed it had 62M views, which is massive because

Having said that, Netflix revealed last month that The Queen's Gambit became its best-performing scripted limited series after being watched by 62M households. It's a different metric to views, but a coincidence that it's the same figure.

TDLink · Dec 12, 2020

vhoanox said:
https://deadline.com/2020/12/normal-people-62m-views-record-bbc-iplayer-1234651479/

They claimed it had 62M views, which is massive because

That is in fact pretty damn massive. I mean that would make it bigger than any other show on Hulu (Even if these views aren't on Hulu). I'm definitely going to check it out. Not too surprised I missed it (and other things) this year though since I've had my head down a bit more working.

RatskyWatsky · Dec 13, 2020

TDLink said:
Not really. There's usually at least a few cable/premium shows that are pretty popular. But Handmaid's Tale is a streaming show anyways. Compared against Netflix and Amazon's hits, Hulu's don't even register.

I mean in terms of cable/premium having viewership on the lower end of the scale, but still having shows that most would consider "big". Even when Breaking Bad was blowing up in its final season, viewership was still significantly lower than even a mid tier broadcast show.

TheNatureBoy · Dec 13, 2020

Interesting to see which International shows are doing well on Netflix. Wish more people watched Kingdom, really enjoyed S2 this year.

Netflix Unveils Its Most-Watched International Series & Films In America: ‘The Platform’ & ‘Barbarians’ Top Lists Also Featuring ‘Cuties’, ‘Money Heist’, ‘Dark’

‘The Platform’ & ‘Barbarians’ Top Lists Also Featuring ‘Cuties’, ‘Money Heist’, ‘Dark’

deadline.com

Netflix's most-watched international series in the U.S.

1. Barbarians (Germany)
2. The Rain (Denmark)
3. Dark (Germany)
4. Money Heist (Spain)
5. Dark Desire (Mexico)
6. Ragnarok (Norway)
7. Always a Witch (Colombia)
8. To the Lake (Russia)
9. The Seven Deadly Sins: Imperial Wrath of the Gods (Japan)
10. The Protector (Turkey)

Rhaknar · Dec 13, 2020

there is some sort of... X-Men anime coming out next week?

And also a Wolverine anime? whut? O_o

Deleted member 45614 · Dec 13, 2020

Rhaknar said:
there is some sort of... X-Men anime coming out next week?

And also a Wolverine anime? whut? O_o

There was Blade and Iron Man ones as well, they originally aired on G4 about 10 years ago when AoTS was still a thing as I remember them promoting it a bunch.

TDLink · Dec 13, 2020

RatskyWatsky said:
I mean in terms of cable/premium having viewership on the lower end of the scale, but still having shows that most would consider "big". Even when Breaking Bad was blowing up in its final season, viewership was still significantly lower than even a mid tier broadcast show.

This was true about 10 years ago, or even 7 when the final season of Breaking Bad was airing. It's a bit more murky nowadays. Network viewership is down across the board for scripted programming. To the point where there's plenty on basic and premium cable doing better than the vast majority on network. Streaming is obviously king now in viewership though. And it will be interesting to see how the cable shows are boosted as the lines are blurred (ie, HBO shows via HBO Max and FX shows via Hulu/Star+). Network TV I think will continue its downward trend indefinitely.

kurahador · Dec 13, 2020

Rhaknar said:
there is some sort of... X-Men anime coming out next week?

And also a Wolverine anime? whut? O_o

All Marvel anime are boring and tropey as shit. They are even worst than any of their western cartoon counterpart.

G_Shumi · Dec 13, 2020

This week's US Top 10 Netflix TV shows, for the week of December 13:

A lot of the same shows from last week, but "Manhunt: Deadly Games" (I have never heard of this) knocked down the shows that are 2-5 this week:

1.) Manhunt: Deadly Games (Season 1) (NEW)
2.) Selena: The Series (Part 1)
3.) Big Mouth (Seasons 1-4)
4.) Virgin River (Seasons 1-2)
5.) The Queen's Gambit (Limited Series)
6.) Cocomelon (Season 1)
7.) The Crown (Seasons 1-4)
8.) Grizzy and The Lemmings (Seasons 1-2) (NEW)
9.) Ink Master (Seasons 1-2) (NEW)
10.) The Office US (Seasons 1-9)

Captjohnboyd · Dec 13, 2020

TheNatureBoy said:
This looks intriguing, if you are into supernatural stuff. Effects look good for a TV series as well.

This looks wild. I will definitely check it out.

RolandGunner said:
Margaret Qualley seems like an odd choice to play Ginger Rogers but we'll see how it goes.

Jamie Bell And Margaret Qualley To Star in ‘Fred & Ginger’ For Amazon And Automatik; Biopic Tells Story Behind Fred Astaire And Ginger Rogers Relationship

Fred & Ginger will star Jamie Bell and Margaret Qualley as the iconic dancing pair Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers.

deadline.com

Shes a trained dancer so I assume that's why they went with her (not to mention she's sort of an it girl right now)

TDLink said:
That is in fact pretty damn massive. I mean that would make it bigger than any other show on Hulu (Even if these views aren't on Hulu). I'm definitely going to check it out. Not too surprised I missed it (and other things) this year though since I've had my head down a bit more working.

Anecdotal and all but this show had pretty huge social media word of mouth going for a while. My girlfriend listened to several non media podcasts that were all gaga over it and all her friends were also talking it up. I had to be dragged kicking and screaming into watching it but it ended up being one of my favorites this year.

LFMartins86 · Dec 13, 2020

G_Shumi said:
This week's US Top 10 Netflix TV shows, for the week of December 13:

A lot of the same shows from last week, but "Manhunt: Deadly Games" (I have never heard of this) knocked down the shows that are 2-5 this week:

1.) Manhunt: Deadly Games (Season 1) (NEW)
2.) Selena: The Series (Part 1)
3.) Big Mouth (Seasons 1-4)
4.) Virgin River (Seasons 1-2)
5.) The Queen's Gambit (Limited Series)
6.) Cocomelon (Season 1)
7.) The Crown (Seasons 1-4)
8.) Grizzy and The Lemmings (Seasons 1-2) (NEW)
9.) Ink Master (Seasons 1-2) (NEW)
10.) The Office US (Seasons 1-9)

Manhunt isn't a new show, it's the second season.
First one was Manhunt : Unabomber, came out a few years ago and it was quite good, Sam Worthington was surprisingly great in it.

TheNatureBoy · Dec 13, 2020

Jamiem said:
There was Blade and Iron Man ones as well, they originally aired on G4 about 10 years ago when AoTS was still a thing as I remember them promoting it a bunch.

Yeah, I remember being excited for them when they premiered back then on G4, then disappointed after watching a few episodes :(

TheNatureBoy · Dec 13, 2020

G_Shumi · Dec 13, 2020

LFMartins86 said:
Manhunt isn't a new show, it's the second season.
First one was Manhunt : Unabomber, came out a few years ago and it was quite good, Sam Worthington was surprisingly great in it.

It's new to Netflix. Is it an anthology series or something?

TheNatureBoy · Dec 13, 2020

Some of these sound pretty interesting.

Netflix To Add Seven New Original Scripted Series In The UK

deadline.com

Deleted member 45614 · Dec 13, 2020

TheNatureBoy said:
Some of these sound pretty interesting.

Netflix To Add Seven New Original Scripted Series In The UK

Netflix To Add Seven New Original Scripted Series In The UK

deadline.com

As someone who loves a lot of Rowan Atkinson's work this sounds amazing:

Man vs Bee (10 x 10)

Creators: Rowan Atkinson (Mr Bean, Johnny English, Blackadder) and Will Davies (Johnny English, How to Train Your Dragon)

Production Company: HouseSitter Productions

Executive Producers: Will Davies and Chris Clark (Johnny English, All the Money in the World)

Synopsis: Renowned actor and comedian Rowan Atkinson plays a new character in this riotous comedy. A man finds himself at war with a bee while housesitting a luxurious mansion. Who will win, and what irreparable damage will be done in the process?

2pac_71 · Dec 13, 2020

TheNatureBoy said:

Looks great.

Sucks the whole season won't drop at once.

Spectromixer · Dec 13, 2020

TheNatureBoy said:
Some of these sound pretty interesting.

Netflix To Add Seven New Original Scripted Series In The UK

Netflix To Add Seven New Original Scripted Series In The UK

deadline.com

Excited for the Sarah Dollard, her episodes on doctor who were great

TheNatureBoy · Dec 13, 2020

Reminder that Nick Kroll's voice work is underrated.

2020-21 Season TV Cancellations/Pilots: Everything's Not Gonna Be Okay for Punky, Betty, Dickinson, or Sarah

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The GIFs of Us

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Are we human or are we dancer?

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