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2000-2002 - Help me choose what essential games I need to play!

Brass Body Dave

Brass Body Dave

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,568
Hi, I've got a small chunk of games that I've been missing out on, some that feel essential. However I have limited time. Fortunately, I have a backcompat PS2 and my old Gamecube, etc - just have some pretty glaring holes in my gameplay collection. Games I haven't finished or never even started. So, I'd like some advice on what you feel is necessary to play.

Here's a list of what I have NOT played from those years that I feel there's been discussion around that make them worth playing:

Vagrant Story
Majora's Mask
Tomb Raider
Icewind Dale
Chrono Cross
Dragon Quest VII - Played this for probably 8 hours on my 3DS, need to know if I should keep going
Parasite Eve II
Baldur's Gate II
Legend of Zelda - Oracle of Ages/Seasons
The Bouncer
Arcanum: of Steamworks and Magick Obscura
Ico - Tried with SOTC/Ico remaster, but didn't really feel it in the first hour
all Crash Bandicoot games
Rogue Squadron II - Rogue Leader
Gothic
Luigi's Mansion
Gitaroo Man
Blood Omen 2
Morrowwind - started about 3 times, never got far beyond the dude that falls out of the sky, so yeah, I have a long ways to go
Way of the Samurai
Neverwinter Nights
Super Mario Sunshine - never completed it, maybe half done
Metroid Fusion

So far what I'm thinking is I should probably dump Bouncer. Would really like to try Icewind Dale but that's a very long RPG. Gothic is supposed to be interesting. Morrowwind is probably must-play, I just need to get in the right frame of mind.

Anything I may be missing? Or any guidance?
 
CannonFodder52

CannonFodder52

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,007
Canada
I'd really recommend giving Ico another shot. Absolutely wonderful game, as well as one of the shortest titles on that list, so that could be an easy item cleared off.
 
Hawk

Hawk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
428
Have you tried Ratchet and Clank, what about Jak and Dexter those are some pretty good platforms, I'd say on par with something by Nintendo.

Also from the list Luigi's Mansion.
 

Deleted member 61326

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 12, 2019
614
If you have a 3DS, give Luigi's Mansion a try. Especially if you played and like the other two. Arguably the best one in the series.

I played all GameBoy Zeldas last year and they are all excellent, but you really need to put yourself into the mindset of the era. They are after all GameBoy games.

Give Ico another try.

And finally, Super Mario Sunshine is unquestionably the best 3D Mario game of all time. Don't listen to the haters.
 
OnionPowder

OnionPowder

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,323
Orlando, FL
Skip Gothic and just go straight to Gothic 2. In terms of being an RPG, Gothic 2 is still one of the best games out there. Fuckin masterpiece of a game. I would recommend Gothic 2 over Morrowind any day of the week.

Here's some tools to get Gothic 2 running great on a modern machine:

Gothic 1/2 System Pack: https://community.pcgamingwiki.com/files/file/1723-gothic-systempack/

D3D11 Renderer: https://forum.worldofplayers.de/forum/threads/1502591-D3D11-Renderer-für-Gothic-2-(alpha)-21

3 other games I'd add to your list:

Thief 2 (2000)
Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines (2004) - this one is out of your normal range but it's another great RPG.
System Shock 2 (1999)
 
chanman

chanman

Member
Nov 9, 2017
1,605
I see Chrono Cross on that list, I would recommend giving it a try. The music in it is amazing, I would really like to see a remastered port one day to PC, PS4/PS5.
 
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Brass Body Dave

Brass Body Dave

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,568
Hawk said:
Have you tried Ratchet and Clank, what about Jak and Dexter those are some pretty good platforms, I'd say on par with something by Nintendo.

Also from the list Luigi's Mansion.
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I tried both Ratchet and Jak 1 - first of both series and didn't really like them all that much.
MatthiasHjalmarsson said:
If you have a 3DS, give Luigi's Mansion a try. Especially if you played and like the other two. Arguably the best one in the series.

I played all GameBoy Zeldas last year and they are all excellent, but you really need to put yourself into the mindset of the era. They are after all GameBoy games.

Give Ico another try.

And finally, Super Mario Sunshine is unquestionably the best 3D Mario game of all time. Don't listen to the haters.
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I have both Ages and Seasons on my 3DS but haven't started them. I should get on them someday but like you said, they're very old so I gotta get in the right frame of mind.

OnionPowder said:
Skip Gothic and just go straight to Gothic 2. In terms of being an RPG, Gothic 2 is still one of the best games out there. Fuckin masterpiece of a game. I would recommend Gothic 2 over Morrowind any day of the week.

Here's some tools to get Gothic 2 running great on a modern machine:

Gothic 1/2 System Pack: https://community.pcgamingwiki.com/files/file/1723-gothic-systempack/

D3D11 Renderer: https://forum.worldofplayers.de/forum/threads/1502591-D3D11-Renderer-für-Gothic-2-(alpha)-21

3 other games I'd add to your list:

Thief 2 (2000)
Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines (2004) - this one is out of your normal range but it's another great RPG.
System Shock 2 (1999)
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I've heard nothing but good things about Gothic 2, so I'll take your advice on that and dump Gothic for now. I know also not to bother with Gothic 3. Thanks for those links as well.

I played Thief 2 and it was wonderful. Bloodlines was also really good, even if a little clunky in some respects. I have not played System Shock 2 nor the first, and I need to remedy that, but would you recommend I go in order? Is SS1 highly encouraged to play before SS2?
chanman said:
I see Chrono Cross on that list, I would recommend giving it a try. The music in it is amazing, I would really like to see a remastered port one day to PC, PS4/PS5.
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Okay. I liked Trigger plenty enough. Just never tried the PS1 Cross.

CannonFodder52 said:
Just checking, have you played Resident Evil Remake, Metroid Prime, Fatal Frame 1 and Illbleed?
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Yes, yes, yes, and yes. Fatal Frame 1 being probably one of my top 5 horrific, scary ass games. I loved the shit out of FF1..
 
EloKa

EloKa

GSP
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,906
I'd personally rank your list somewhat like this.
The scientific parameters used for my list are nostalgia and false memories. And maybe somewhat the impact a game had, while I'm completely ignoring if it's still fun to play them today like the Gothic bugs and clunkiness might be critical from todays perspective.

Must have:
Gothic
Majora's Mask
Tomb Raider
Baldur's Gate II

Should have:
Blood Omen 2
Morrowwind
Super Mario Sunshine
Neverwinter Nights

Nice to have:
Luigi's Mansion
Ico
Crash Bandicoots
Rogue Squadron II - Rogue Leader
Vagrant Story
 
No Depth

No Depth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
18,291
Brass Body Dave said:
So far what I'm thinking is I should probably dump Bouncer. Would really like to try Icewind Dale but that's a very long RPG. Gothic is supposed to be interesting. Morrowwind is probably must-play, I just need to get in the right frame of mind.
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Morrowind has a lot of neat qualities, many do not hold up well. More of a curio now than a mechanically strong experience. Though it's world design and lack of hand-holding, not to mention it's constant faction tug-of-war have been missed in Bethesda titles.

Icewind Dale is fantastic and I replayed it myself a few years ago. Just keep in mind it's combat focused. It's linear and therefore has much tighter and more interesting combat pacing and flow than BG2. BG2 is more of the proper adventure experience with choices, options, NPC's, etc... but it's combat scenarios can grow stale and you will spend a lot of time exploring moreso than pure fighting.

IWD is narrow focused on escalating dungeons and caves and dark recesses pitting your created team against the beasts. Every new level has new foes and tricks to deal with. It's constant escalation and giving you new stuff. There is satisfaction in scraping through or outwitting a room of foes in the Infinity Engine games. BG2 has pockets of those moments scattered about in its long journey, but IWD provides that upfront and center. Think it's helpful to discuss how they differ as the two series are unique.

oh and Bouncer is worth dropping. It's a couple hours long, but none of it really good. Only notable for being a near launch release at a time when day 1 PS2 fabs were starved for content.
 
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Brass Body Dave

Brass Body Dave

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,568
No Depth said:
Icewind Dale is fantastic and I replayed it myself a few years ago. Just keep in mind it's combat focused. It's linear and therefore has much tighter and more interesting combat pacing and flow than BG2. BG2 is more of the proper adventure experience with choices, options, NPC's, etc... but it's combat scenarios can grow stale and you will spend a lot of time exploring moreso than pure fighting.

IWD is narrow focused on escalating dungeons and caves and dark recesses pitting your created team against the beasts. Every new level has new foes and tricks to deal with. It's constant escalation and giving you new stuff. There is satisfaction in scraping through or outwitting a room of foes in the Infinity Engine games. BG2 has pockets of those moments scattered about in its long journey, but IWD provides that upfront and center. Think it's helpful to discuss how they differ as the two series are unique.
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Thanks for this added info. It sounds like I should hit BG2 and then IWD as I'd have a better handle on the combat at that point.
 
OnionPowder

OnionPowder

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,323
Orlando, FL
Brass Body Dave said:
I played Thief 2 and it was wonderful. Bloodlines was also really good, even if a little clunky in some respects. I have not played System Shock 2 nor the first, and I need to remedy that, but would you recommend I go in order? Is SS1 highly encouraged to play before SS2?
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I personally skipped SS1 and was able to fully enjoy my time with SS2 anyways. SS1 has aged a little bit worse than SS2, but the last time I tried was on the DOS version. There's an enhanced one that I haven't gone back to give a chance yet.
 
Redcrayon

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
Advance Wars was the big one for me around then, i still go back to play it now. Timeless strategy game.
 
WGMBY

WGMBY

Member
Oct 27, 2017
515
Boston, MA
Silent Hill 2, ICO, and Morrowind are all excellent choices. Hell, I'm still playing Morrowind occasionally to this day, 19 years after it released. There are plenty of mods to upgrade the game to look better on modern systems, and the magic system is flexible enough that you can break most of the rules if you know what you're doing.

Majora's Mask is also great if you liked Ocarina of Time, and Luigi's Mansion/Rogue Leader were THE games when the Gamecube released. I remember all 3 fondly. Super Mario Sunshine was also great, though I'm not sure how it holds up compared to Galaxy and Odyssey.
 
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Brass Body Dave

Brass Body Dave

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,568
OnionPowder said:
I personally skipped SS1 and was able to fully enjoy my time with SS2 anyways. SS1 has aged a little bit worse than SS2, but the last time I tried was on the DOS version. There's an enhanced one that I haven't gone back to give a chance yet.
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Good to know - thank you. I have SS2 on Steam, but I'm not sure if its actually enhanced.
 

swnny

Member
Oct 27, 2017
270
Majora's Mask, Gothic and Luigi's Mansion will be my top 3 picks out of the list. ICO as well, but it was clunky, so i feel you when you say it didnt click for an hour...

Super Mario Sunshine is a game I've read a lot about in gaming magazines when it released, but never played it. Overall reception is good as well, so I'll keep an eye on the responses for it here, maybe give it a go

Edit: A title missing from the list (and had to double check its release date, cuz I wasnt sure if it was in the range) is Shinobi for PS2. Great game, with even greater sequel (spiritual sucssesor) - Nightshade (released in 2003). God, I remember the nights at my parents house, raging and keep dying on these games, but sill couldn't put the dualshock down...
 
Kill3r7

Kill3r7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,441
Out of that list:

BG2 (if you like the genre)
ICO
Rogue Squadron 2

Some other games from that time that are worth playing, I assume you have played most of them but just in case.

Thief II: The Metal Age
System Shock 2 (1999)
Deus Ex GOTY
Diablo II
Perfect Dark
FFIX
No One Lives Forever
Metroid Prime
Halo
Eternal Darkness
Warcraft III
 
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Brass Body Dave

Brass Body Dave

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,568
swnny said:
Edit: A title missing from the list (and had to double check its release date, cuz I wasnt sure if it was in the range) is Shinobi for PS2. Great game, with even greater sequel (spiritual sucssesor) - Nightshade (released in 2003). God, I remember the nights at my parents house, raging and keep dying on these games, but sill couldn't put the dualshock down...
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Shinobi was great! Hard as shit but excellent.
 
arcadepc

arcadepc

Banned
Dec 28, 2019
1,925
Virtual Pool 3 featuring Jeanette Lee. Best use of a pro player in a video game and best pool game in general. Unfortunately vp4 did away with her do to licensing and used another tutor who lacks her humor and finesse
 
No Depth

No Depth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
18,291
Just adding quick thoughts on the below(that I've played)

Brass Body Dave said:
Vagrant Story - Very neat with possibly the best opening hook of a PS1 game. Mechanics can be confounding and the game doesn't properly explain a lot of the systems well. Know that alignment isn't that vital next to elements and other stats despite the game ramming it down your throat. Put less focus on crafting a dozen unique weapons for certain enemy types and instead go for having 1-3 jack-of-all-trades weapons.

Majora's Mask - Well worth playing ahead of many on this list. The most unique Zelda adventure and once you settle into its flow(grabbing the timeslow song) you will fill your sessions getting absorbed learning all about this weird side of Hyrule.

Tomb Raider - I'd argue its worth experiencing the Anniversary remake instead, but this is a classic. The remake expands and broadens the same progression and puzzles, while removing some of the nonsense. The QTE bossfights in the remake are the only real blight compared to the old. Still, there is charm to the older game, but some of the switch puzzles are better reworked in the remake.

Icewind Dale - Spoken about it earlier. Great dungeon crawl.

Chrono Cross - Neat RPG and quasi-Chrono Trigger sequel. Unique combat and scenario, unlike most other games from Square. Exceptional music too, but I feel there are stronger games on the list to play first.

Dragon Quest VII - Played this for probably 8 hours on my 3DS, need to know if I should keep going...(you can stop, its more of the same to the end)

Parasite Eve II - Very meh RE clone. Only play if curious, but even then don't expect much.

Baldur's Gate II - Discussed earlier. Great RPG, but time consuming.

Legend of Zelda - Oracle of Ages/Seasons - Fantastic set of Zelda games. Worth playing both if you want traditional overhead Zelda.

The Bouncer - Ignore. Its only notable for being an early PS2 game releasing post-launch when everyone was starved for new.

Arcanum: of Steamworks and Magick Obscura - Some love this. It's brutally difficult and complex to play and learn. I'd skip ahead and focus on others here.

Ico - Tried with SOTC/Ico remaster, but didn't really feel it in the first hour. (Not priority if you didn't feel it early in. It's not long though, but if you weren't feeling it already then skip)

all Crash Bandicoot games - (I'd skip. They are all medicore platformers that carry nostalgia more than memorable design.)

Rogue Squadron II - Rogue Leader - I always felt the first N64 was superior, though the sequel was definitely a huge step up in visuals. Medal hunting sucked in this one, but I enjoyed earning them in the N64 game. Though this is a fine Star Wars action game just to play through.

Gothic - Never played. I think Gothic 2 or 3 was the one most enjoyed? Can't recall.
Luigi's Mansion - Cute for a couple hours. Nice ghost variety and simple puzzles to hunt them down.
Gitaroo Man - Never did play. but its beloved.
Blood Omen 2 - Skip.
Morrowwind - started about 3 times, never got far beyond the dude that falls out of the sky, so yeah, I have a long ways to go (Discussed earlier. Skip unless you are really curious. Play others first)
Way of the Samurai - Neat but I never played much myself to really comment.
Neverwinter Nights - Skip. It's Expansions have neat stories, but there are stronger RPG's here.
Super Mario Sunshine - never completed it, maybe half done. (Meh, I think its one of the weakest entries and the back half is worse than the front, the final level is garbage especially)
Metroid Fusion - Neat pocket Metroid. Not the best 2D entry, but it's fine. More linear than most though.
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Big G

Big G

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,605
Ooooh, my personal golden days of gaming.

Based on the ones you've mentioned having not played, I can definitely vouch for these ones as being must-plays:

Majora's Mask
Tomb Raider
Ico
Metroid Fusion
Deus Ex
System Shock 2

Sunshine, the Zelda Oracle games and Luigi's Mansion are good games that are worth playing as well, but I would put them a notch below those ones.

Not sure if these ones have been mentioned as well, but are also worth checking out: Eternal Darkness, Max Payne 1&2, Devil May Cry.
 
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Brass Body Dave

Brass Body Dave

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,568
No Depth said:
Just adding quick thoughts on the below(that I've played)
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Thanks for those. I appreciate it!
Big G said:
Ooooh, my personal golden days of gaming.

Based on the ones you've mentioned having not played, I can definitely vouch for these ones as being must-plays:

Majora's Mask
Tomb Raider
Ico
Metroid Fusion
Deus Ex
System Shock 2

Sunshine, the Zelda Oracle games and Luigi's Mansion are good games that are worth playing as well, but I would put them a notch below those ones.

Not sure if these ones have been mentioned as well, but are also worth checking out: Eternal Darkness, Max Payne 1&2, Devil May Cry.
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I have played Eternal Darkness and Max Payne 2, DMC1. Did not play MP1. Does it hold up about the same as MP2 does?
 
Big G

Big G

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,605
Brass Body Dave said:
I have played Eternal Darkness and Max Payne 2, DMC1. Did not play MP1. Does it hold up about the same as MP2 does?
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MP2 is the better game and it does hold up better, so I wouldn't say playing MP1 is super-essential since you've played the sequel. But the first one has its own charm.

Plus that classic Sam Lake "Max face".

f7o.gif
 
Futaleufu

Futaleufu

Banned
Jan 12, 2018
3,910
OnionPowder said:
Skip Gothic and just go straight to Gothic 2. In terms of being an RPG, Gothic 2 is still one of the best games out there. Fuckin masterpiece of a game. I would recommend Gothic 2 over Morrowind any day of the week.
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Skipping Gothic 1 is a terrible idea because Gothic 2 is a direct sequel that uses all the world building the first game did.
 

Deleted member 17210

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,569
They're not on PS2 or GC but I recommend adding Jet Set Radio, the Shenmue series and Sin and Punishment to the list, if you can play them.
 
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