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20 years later: Final Fantasy VII vs The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
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Does it though? What did Ocarina of time actually do that modern games do? I'm struggling to see any influences ther than obvious zelda clones like Okami. People just say '3D design' but what does that specifically mean?
Edit: FF7 is definitely my choice, but I'm not arguing in bad faith. I'm genuinely curious to hear what OoT actually did that influenced other games. FF7 popularised cinematic gameplay so you can at least see that influence today, even if it really wasn't the first to do it.
Yeah, I played through the 3DS remaster years ago when it released and I was pleasantly surprised by how well the game held up. I had only played it one time previously when it actually launched for N64. It's still a solid game IMO.
Are you serious? Let's compare ff vii and Oot in the next few years when Vii remake is out. Alrighty then.
This......x1000. I enjoyed the cut scenes in FF7, but by the time I finished it, the story lost me. Looked good though. I was more excited by the cut scenes for FF6 in the PSX release, though.
OoT is way beyond 7 for me. Not my favorite Zelda game, but it's up there....top 5 for sure. I still have a used and unused commercial film from the movie theater so worked at in 1998. Have commercials for both FF7 and OoT.
I wouldn't even. FFVIIR is going to be a completely different game entirely. No turn based combat for example. OoT 3D is more of a remaster than anything. Not a remake.
I'm a much bigger FF fan than a Zelda fan, but I'd go with OOT. . I've replayed both relatively recently and OOT holds up better. As someone who has played all of the FFs since the original on NES, I'm not sure I'd put FFVII even in my top 5 FFs. Can't deny its impact on the industry though.
Apparently square don't think ff7 is playable just by updating the visuals and keeping the actual game parts in tact, but Nintendo thinks ocarina is fully worth playing with just a visual upgrade and minor tweaks, so who am I to disagree with them.
Ocarina is better.
Ocarina is better.
OOT was responsible for lock on targeting among other things. Any game that lets you lock the camera to a target or enemy and move your character relative to it has OOT to thank.
While neither are close to my favorites in either franchise, I give a slight nod to OoT. I thought FF7 was an OK game back when it came out. I thought OoT was a good game. I didn't think it was the greatest thing since sliced bread like many did, but I enjoyed it more than FF7.
I'd say that is a bad thing. It used in the days of watching large chunks of games instead if playing them.
How is this even a question? It's FFVII...and it's not even close.
I'm in the same boat, but unfortunately FF7s influence/impact seems to take over the discussions instead of it being a mediocre game.
OoT taught the industry how to do 3d action games. Do you like Soulsbourne? Thank Ocarina of Time.
Just like Mario 64, it was one of the early and incredibly influential games that innovated and established what 3rd person 3d game design is.
More than that, it's still a fantastic game on its own. Yeah, the N64 copy is rough around the edges. Play the 3DS version, which is just new textures/models, a few minor QoL upgrades, and better framerate and you can see it's still a great game.
OoT is one of the greatest of all time.
Just like Mario 64, it was one of the early and incredibly influential games that innovated and established what 3rd person 3d game design is.
More than that, it's still a fantastic game on its own. Yeah, the N64 copy is rough around the edges. Play the 3DS version, which is just new textures/models, a few minor QoL upgrades, and better framerate and you can see it's still a great game.
OoT is one of the greatest of all time.
The point was compare the original releases or don't do anything.
http://fandom.wikia.com/articles/ocarina-of-time-influence-gaming
OOT was clearly very influential.
To me, it's a better game too but it's totally debatable.
More install base and more systems FF games are available on(mainline games) so sales are not a good measuring factor.
The line is more directly traced back to Super Mario 64, but Ocarina of Time was basically just a more refined version of that game.
And it's not really about what they "do," but rather how they do it. The way that 3D games control before and after SM64/OoT are worlds apart. Mechanics like a free-moving camera that wasn't locked to the player character's point of view, context-sensitive action buttons, and lock-on targeting are the basic, taken-for-granted things in modern games. It's telling that Super Mario 64, Tomb Raider, and Resident Evil all released around the same time, but the latter two series now play nothing like their original games and much more like N64 Mario and Zelda games. Resident Evil 1 and 4 even both got re-releases that replaced the original tank controls with the Mario/Zelda-inspired 3D movement.
Hell, Final Fantasy XV plays more like Ocarina of Time than it does Final Fantasy VII.
i played final fantasy vii for the first time in 2002. all of the hype that had led to its praise in 1997 meant nothing to me that year. that said, going back to ocarina of time in 2011 made it feel really small compared to how i viewed it as a kid. panzer dragoon saga was the rpg everyone should have been influenced by in the late 90s instead of final fantasy vii. ffvii is a bloated, dark, convoluted mess that the crummy followups have accurately recreated in their bloated, dark, convoluted own ways. advent children isn't some fanservice cash-in on a popular game, it's the logical followup to what came about in 1997.
ocarina of time was a navigation in 3d space which was novel for its era. a lot of puzzles tend to boil down to 'wow look at how this works in 3d!'. it's stuff you'd find in a link to the past or link's awakening, except now the arrow is moving in three dimensions instead of two. there are a couple solid ones that hold up, and rely on an understanding of 3d space (like jumping through the spider's web), but the dungeons feel small against what came later. there's definitely consistency to ocarina of time though. the pacing of the game is wonderful, and it effortlessly takes the player from segment to segment without there feeling like there's any bloat thanks to a constant sense of urgency, and it still allows for the player to complete a variety of sidequests. it's something that subsequent zeldas haven't really nailed. even breath of the wild doesn't get that sense of urgency down even though it grants the player a good deal of freedom.
i think what nintendo did in 1998 was a lot more impressive than what square enix did in 1997. nintendo did have super mario 64 to work from, but oot was still a generation ahead of its contemporaries.
ocarina of time was a navigation in 3d space which was novel for its era. a lot of puzzles tend to boil down to 'wow look at how this works in 3d!'. it's stuff you'd find in a link to the past or link's awakening, except now the arrow is moving in three dimensions instead of two. there are a couple solid ones that hold up, and rely on an understanding of 3d space (like jumping through the spider's web), but the dungeons feel small against what came later. there's definitely consistency to ocarina of time though. the pacing of the game is wonderful, and it effortlessly takes the player from segment to segment without there feeling like there's any bloat thanks to a constant sense of urgency, and it still allows for the player to complete a variety of sidequests. it's something that subsequent zeldas haven't really nailed. even breath of the wild doesn't get that sense of urgency down even though it grants the player a good deal of freedom.
i think what nintendo did in 1998 was a lot more impressive than what square enix did in 1997. nintendo did have super mario 64 to work from, but oot was still a generation ahead of its contemporaries.
For real?
How about everyone's favourite "Soulsborne" games? Those games all play SO much like Ocarina. Not in terms of the difficulty or the slowness of it etc., but in terms of how the camera works, the dodging and slashing, etc. Ocarina laid the foundation that these and other games still use to this day.
This says more about FF and how it's progressed as a franchise than it does about Zelda lol.
For starters, the lock on mechanic to better manage third person combat, creating and perfectly executing compelling 3D dungeon design in a way that would go on to be replicated in everything from future Zeldas to the likes of God of War to MMOs such as WoW, a very open and large world for the time filled with secrets that encourage thorough exploration, and with everything contextualized in a way that made sense such as the real time day and night cycle, integrating music very thoroughly into gameplay with a functioning musical instrument you can actually play, creative item use in 3D space that has since been replicated by other games (hookshot, bombchus, etc), and over all just executing everything else extremely well.
To say that either Super Mario 64 or Ocarina of Time created or even popularised non-tank controls is crazy. Even FF7 (which was before Ocarina) has similar controls for its 3D world, as well as an open world (although not as technically proficient as the N64 game).
From the article I was sent, it looks like OoT invented camera lock, day/night cycles and contextual buttons, which if true is very impressive and something to celebrate.
But claiming even Super Mario 64 invented free moving camera and relative movement is ridiculous, and smells a lot like the kind of retroactive made up bullshit people say about the Beatles; like they invented the concept album.
Edit: WestEgg I really like Ocarina of a Time and I won't deny everything it does it does extremely well. Hence it still being one of the greatest games of all time. But you don't see most 3D games modelled like Zelda; and to be honest you never did. GTA3 would seem to be a much bigger influence on gaming for example. In terms of gameplay I don't think FF7 influences much to be fair, I was just interested in what OoT had done.
Soulsborne is basically an evolution from the kingsfield series and the first game came out in 1994.
That's a tough question as I love both games.
Walking around Hyrule Field for the first time and experiencing that day/ night cycle was simply mindblowing.
On the other hand, so was leaving Midgar. I honestly thought I just finished the game or was at least close to it and then those massive world opened up.
All things considered, I think I would have to vote for FF VII but it's so damn close.
Walking around Hyrule Field for the first time and experiencing that day/ night cycle was simply mindblowing.
On the other hand, so was leaving Midgar. I honestly thought I just finished the game or was at least close to it and then those massive world opened up.
All things considered, I think I would have to vote for FF VII but it's so damn close.
Kingsfield:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWSBYUPWMk0
https://www.destructoid.com/hidetak...-of-dark-souls-zelda-comparisons-391249.phtml
"A lot of gamers have noticed a striking amount of similarities between The Legend of Zelda and the Dark Souls games. Aside from being 3D action adventures titles, the combat mechanics seem to be fashioned around a similar type of gameplay, even if Souls goes a bit more in-depth.
To me, I've never really drawn the comparison until more recently. I think it comes down to the fact that Ocarina of Time laid the groundwork for how a 3D action game should be made, which is something series creator Hidetaka Miyazaki agrees with.
In an interview with Glixel, Miyazaki stated, "If there are similarities, they probably stem from the fact that The Legend of Zelda became a sort of textbook for 3D action games." It's funny how certain games become shining examples of their genre and never seem to be topped in terms of innovation.
As for the comparison, Miyazaki added, "When I was a student, The Legend of Zelda was truly monumental.""
Uhhh...weren't those games first person and totally different gameplay-wise?
An opinion that can only be held if one has never played FFVI.
Isn't Ocarina of Time's sense of openess, and its Hyrule Field specifically, cited as the inspiration for open world games as a genre?
What about context sensitive buttons? I don't see that brought up as much nowadays, but back in the 90s that was talked about as a huge game design step forward.
OoT never did it for me, it was really the start of things I didn't like in Zelda games.
FF7 I have played more times than I can remember
FF7 I have played more times than I can remember
Pretty sure Nintendo paved the way for 3D game design to incorporate a free-moving camera that was separate from the rest of the character's movement. Can anyone name a game before Super Mario 64 that did this? In-fact the N64 controller was originally designed completely around this concept (hence why you had the cluster of the directional yellow C ("C" for camera) buttons on the controller that was reachable to the player alongside the analog stick).
Even the analogy Nintendo used in Super Mario 64 that had players thinking of the camera as a secondary character you could control separately, in hindsight, was one of the most innovative and genius moments in the history of video game design, up there with the gameplay mechanics Miyamoto and crew created for 2D game design with the original Super Mario Bros./Zelda. Who else would make players think of camera movement as part of character control/movement (before SM64 in 1996)?
I think people forget just how influential Nintendo's game design philosophies/innovations truly are. I remember even the GTA3 developers saying GTA3 wouldn't even exist without Mario 64's existence.
Edit: In case your still not convinced: [from Wikipedia article on SM64] In 2012, Dan Houser, a prominent figure in the development of the Grand Theft Auto series, stated, "Anyone who makes 3D games who says they've not borrowed something from Mario or Zelda [on the Nintendo 64] is lying." - Source
All-in all, while FF7 did a lot for upping the cinematic presentation of video games, when it comes purely to game design and video games itself, the impact of Super Mario 64 and Zelda Ocarina of Time on modern video games in general is unquestionable. Its difficult to even argue otherwise. FF7 still plays like the role-playing games from the 16-bit generation and graphically it still doesn't really hold up well. Mario 64 and Zelda OoT paved the way for every 3D game that came after it. You could even argue Zelda OoT was cinematic and Disney-like in its presentation in its own way. Thats a huge different in influence and impact.
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FF7 has a fixed camera everywhere except the overworld and controls almost exactly like its 2D predecessors. It doesn't have tank controls because it has FF6 controls. It didn't innovate at all in that space. It would be extremely easy to make a 16bit "de-make" of FF7 because its gameplay is in no way groundbreaking for its time (in fact, I believe an 8bit de-make of FF7 already exists).
Zelda and Mario wrote the book on how 3D movement/camera should actually work, and the book is still read by pretty much everyone making 3D 3rd person games to this day. Most game designers will tell you that themselves.
Never played FFVII until I got a PS2 and then I never finished it.
Ocarina of Time is one of the first games I ever beat. I remember getting stuck in the Water Temple forever because I either couldn't find one of the keys or used it to open a door I had already been in.
Ocarina of Time is one of the first games I ever beat. I remember getting stuck in the Water Temple forever because I either couldn't find one of the keys or used it to open a door I had already been in.
Yeah, basically that. Final Fantasy VII is mentioned in best JRPGs lists. But Ocarina is always mentioned in GOAT lists (and a lot of times wins)
I kind of roll my eyes when I see someone say a game has aged poorly. I must be lucky that I've never felt this before. OoT, Final Fantasy 7, NES games, PS2 games, whatever. They're all just as damn good to me today as they were then.
In terms of impact on game design it's Zelda Ocarina of Time. However, I fully played both fully for the first time (Ocarina on 3DS and FF7 on PS4) and Ocarina was a chore to play at times. FF7 surprised me postively speaking.
Also, will like the add Sephiroth as a villan is really overrated and I don't know why he is so popular other than his looks.
Also, will like the add Sephiroth as a villan is really overrated and I don't know why he is so popular other than his looks.
Stupid comparison. Completely different games that did completely different things for their respective genres.
Big Final Fantays Franchise fan here that played and finished every main numbered one and it's sequels.
FFVII by far the best one followed by FFIX.
