Generally very hefty fines (like tens of thousands of dollars) plus x years being banned from entering the country.
The prison sentence seems to be overkill.
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18 year old U.S. Student Jailed for Quarantine Violation in the Cayman Islands, Family Pleads for Her Release
- Thread starter WrenchNinja
- Start date
Generally very hefty fines (like tens of thousands of dollars) plus x years being banned from entering the country.
The prison sentence seems to be overkill.
Again. Not being outraged that a rich white person is in a foreign country's jail for breaking their laws isn't necessarily a comment on whether or not you think that prisons should be reformed overall. You can think that prison reform is vital, and at the same time advocate for equivalent sentencing regardless of one's caste in the systems that currently exist. These are not contradictory positions.
Covid spread is rampant in jails because of the conditions in jails and prisons making spread so dangerous. Whether or not she or Ramjeet have Covid currently is not an excuse for continuing to place people in extremely dire Covid situations for violations of Covid protocols. You are entirely missing the point, you're also ignoring that she isn't the only one going to jail. Yes I think they are trying to set an example with this couple, no I don't think it's good because the example they are setting is destructive and ignores the significance of Covid spread on incarcerated populations globally and the dangers posed by that spread.
Who their face of the article is not really my concern, I'm talking about criminal justice policy related to Covid spread and how jailing people for these violations is counter-productive. Feel free to search my post history, you'll find me saying the same thing every time this subject comes up. This is bad policy, it's putting other people's lives at risk to jail people for Covid violations.
The pictures they show are always.The smiling ones at the beach and the reporting I've seen. Not fooling anyone with the response they want.
Cayman island don't have any covid outbreak, in prison or outside, in part of because they enforce the quarantine.
People should stop thinking projecting to them their own nation.
She risked the lifestyle (to not speak about the life) of everyone in the island because she believed that she would get away with it.
You guys are exactly supporting her behavior.
I live on a island where people can only enter with a negative test taken in the last 72h and they have to isolate until they take a test on the 6th day.
Almost every day there are reports of someone testing positive on the 6th day.
I don't know why people suggesting fines. Fines don't work for these kind of offense, those privileged people don't care.
Think of it this way: how many months would you have given Typhoid Mary when she went back to work as a cook under a pseudonym after express instructions not to do that?
Mentioned earlier that I would've settled for 1 month, but the ramifications of this fuckup could've ruined that whole island so...yeah, I see why they went with 4 months, even if it does seem like a lot
She intentionally took off an electronic monitor to not be tracked for quarantine.
If she didn't get punished, Id' feel that would set a more dangerous precedent for people currently who decide not to quarantine, and you only get a slap on your wrist for breaking the laws, and these are laws, not a recommendation to prevent the spread of a deadly disease that's causing the pandemic we're currently in.
If she didn't get punished, Id' feel that would set a more dangerous precedent for people currently who decide not to quarantine, and you only get a slap on your wrist for breaking the laws, and these are laws, not a recommendation to prevent the spread of a deadly disease that's causing the pandemic we're currently in.
There's a time and place for arguing the merits of prison reform especially when there is an outbreak in the conversation . As I said there are an multitude of people in prison at the moment for offenses which are genuinely nonsensical and deliberately harmful to certain demographics.
This situation however was willful and deliberate in nature and given the severity warrents prison sentences as I cannot describe as anything other than breaking the law and putting people at risk for shits and giggles. This is a situation where a prison sentence is warranted according to the severity in that country.
Prison reform is a fine thing to want and the "cesspool" stands there with you in more ways than you can understand if you care to drop the needless blanket statement, but having said that, fuck these fuckwards and I frankly don't give a shit what happens to them.
And you're missing the point too. Covid is rife in jails in America because it's rife outside of them too, and no effort was made to keep prisoners safe in America.
Compare with the stats from the UK: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/hm-prison-and-probation-service-covid-19-statistics
By August, almost half a year after the pandemic reached the UK, only 540 people total had contracted covid in UK prisons and even now, it's barely gotten to 3,000 (about 5% of the prison population), and that's with the newly highly contagious mutation appearing at the same as the numbers jumped. UK prisons had zero deaths and near zero cases from July to the point where the new more infectious strain appeared. Now that's a known quantity, they will no doubt adjust the restrictions appropriately to get that number back to zero (from 5 in October).
The Cayman Islands have the number of cases well under control and that includes within jails. There's no reason whatsoever to treat them like a hotspot of covid infections because that's a USA problem.
As a healthcare professional you can bet your ass i am cheering for this, quarantine laws and rules exist for a very good reason, endangering other peoples health to go to a jetski competition, i'm sorry but that kind of stupid needs consequences.
Well. you can say that was not prison at least.
Don't take anything from Mary to this case anyway. Different cases, different times, different diseases.
Right.
Exactly and too many people are applying America's failures to how this country actually has taken this seriously. American exceptionalism I tell you what.
Would prefer a heftier fine over prison, mostly because I don't want to add unnecessary stress on the prison system right now.
That said, 4 months is way too low if you're going to do any kind of jail time at all for breaking quarantine. It should qualify as reckless endangerment of everyone on the islands.
That said, 4 months is way too low if you're going to do any kind of jail time at all for breaking quarantine. It should qualify as reckless endangerment of everyone on the islands.
Been reduced to two month now.
www.caymancompass.com
Mack, Ramgeet sentences reduced to 2 months
Skylar Mack and Vanjae Ramgeet - the couple whose quarantine breach case has garnered international headlines - had their sentences reduced from four months to two months in jail.
www.caymancompass.com
User Banned (2 Weeks): Inflammatory Commentary
If you suggest to jail drunk people driving even when they don't do any damage you will get about the same amount of pushback.
All of us probably have gone behind the wheel when we got a drink to many. People somehow projecting. Not saying all people here would do something stupid like her but probably will try to skirt the rules.
Post Edit.
Well surely people felt strong about this post. I explain better below.
Last edited:
I'm trying to imagine this same article but with the image of a brown dude named Ramjeet drawing the same amount of sympathy but I know it wouldn't even be the same article. Probably wouldn't have even made the article at all.
Again, you or I do not know exactly how they are being confined. Sure on a broader scale covid spread in prisons is bad but we do not know enough about this specific case to say it's an issue here. How does the Cayman Islands handle Covid in prisons or in general? Do you know? Seems like they're handling it a hell of a lot better than America is. I understand the greater issue you want to address but this really doesn't feel like the spot for it.
The problem is you want to ignore the greater context in which the news has chosen to cover the story but it is very relevant to how people in this thread have reacted. You can't criticize their reactions to it with passive-aggressive blanket statements without acknowledging that. It just makes it look like you want to dismiss what they did cause you have beef with the forum. Yeah, ERA is not as "progressive" as some people claim. I just don't know why that's relevant here. You completely missed the point and should step back for a broader look.
4 months is absolutely apt for a crime like this, a fine would just tell other rich Americans that's it's totally fine to come here and spread the virus.
An isolated place like the Caymans would be absolutely fucked if an outbreak did occur, they have to be thought on this.
It blows my mind how many people are calling this too hash.
An isolated place like the Caymans would be absolutely fucked if an outbreak did occur, they have to be thought on this.
It blows my mind how many people are calling this too hash.
The prison system in the caymans is not like the US. And the problem with fines is that when you are rich that's just a price of entry to commit bad things. That's why fines don't work for well to do people unless it's absolutely devastating to their wealth and on top of that these folks probally wouldn't even pay it and if she makes bail they more than likely will wisk her off back to the US and face no punishment whatsoever
gotta love that privilegeBeen reduced to two month now.
Mack, Ramgeet sentences reduced to 2 months
Skylar Mack and Vanjae Ramgeet - the couple whose quarantine breach case has garnered international headlines - had their sentences reduced from four months to two months in jail.
lets just keep paying fines until you actually kill someone, yay
/s
Still will have people arguing that this is "too much"Been reduced to two month now.
Mack, Ramgeet sentences reduced to 2 months
Skylar Mack and Vanjae Ramgeet - the couple whose quarantine breach case has garnered international headlines - had their sentences reduced from four months to two months in jail.
So she intentionally breaks country's coronavirus laws and has to face said consequences....for a jet ski competition. I'll hold my shock and outrage for something else...
My stance is not related to whether the behavior was 'willful and deliberate', I can't even conceive of a situation of Covid protocol violation where that wouldn't apply outside of children or a kidnapping, so I'm not sure why that's the standard here.
Criminal justice reform is about more than just the treatment of people convicted of crimes you don't think should be crimes, it's also about the treatment of people who commit legitimate crimes and crafting policy that produces better outcomes rather than policy that is destructive, short-sighted, and punitive.
I also never used to word "cesspool" so not sure why you keep harping on that.
I think she should get a big fine, but can't cosign on the 4 months in jail. I doubt people who are saying "4 months isn't so bad" have EVER been in a jail - let alone in a foreign country. Being in a cell where you aren't allowed to leave is very different than just being cooped up in your room.
She and her boyfriend are clearly privileged, arrogant and entitled, but that isn't enough for me say lock them up. Having personally experience, hard to cheer this on.
She and her boyfriend are clearly privileged, arrogant and entitled, but that isn't enough for me say lock them up. Having personally experience, hard to cheer this on.
What the fuck? No. Never. I'm 100% behind tossing anyone stupid enough to have done that in jail for a few weeks too.
Honestly, good, fuck her, it's this mindset of not giving a fuck that makes everyone less safe, I'm tired of people not taking this seriously and doing what is required, by law in a lot of places, in order to protect people. I'm sorry that this white american woman thinks the rules don't apply to her in other places outside the usa but she learned that in fact, they do. You don't get to willfully ignore the law because you have decided that it doesn't apply to you for some arbitrary reason, she did this on purpose, she now realises she shouldn't have. And honestly it doesn't matter if she tested negative or not, the idea that she would slip out of another country's quarantine measures to go to a stupid jetski competition is exactly the mindset that leads to countries feeling the need to ban travel from other places outright. They can't trust people to follow the rules in places so the only option is to ban travel, it's annoying as fuck that people are defending her, maybe if people thought about how her mindset leads others to doing similar things they shouldn't be because they've seen their friends or others doing it, they'd realise how wrong her actions were, my mum and sister have been literally unable to leave their house almost the entire year because they have immune issues and selfish people don't give a fuck about taking steps to protect others, so I'm sorry that I have no sympathy for her being locked up for a short period in comparison due to willfully not respecting other country's laws that are there for the safety of the public.
Wow
People, in this thread, unironically arguing that the punishment for a rich white girl should be fines, instead of serving time, lol.
Am I in bizarro world?
People, in this thread, unironically arguing that the punishment for a rich white girl should be fines, instead of serving time, lol.
Am I in bizarro world?
I just can't wrap my head around the people pushing for fines.
Fines only ever damage people in low-income brackets. For the rich, they're effectively "access fees" to do illegal shit. It means nothing to them.
Fines only ever damage people in low-income brackets. For the rich, they're effectively "access fees" to do illegal shit. It means nothing to them.
well, good for you, but my I choose my world badly. It should be under influence.
Myself? I never drove drunk, but definitely even 1 large beer is enough to affect your reflex to act differently. So now in most of Europe there is no tolerance for alcohol and car, even 1 beer, I welcome that.
In reading more on this, it looks like she's a pre-med student as well. The fact that someone who wants to be a physician is completely oblivious to the consequences of her actions doesn't speak well to her judgment and this incident is very much a red flag against her future career aspirations.
Lmao fines? The fuck are fines gonna do for these well off white people?
Some of y'all happy now??? does 2 months suit your fancy for her terribly, dumbass, dangerous behavior and negligence of another countries fuckin laws and people? Of fuckin' course the white girl gets off even easier than she was. Fuck im heated.Been reduced to two month now.
Mack, Ramgeet sentences reduced to 2 months
Skylar Mack and Vanjae Ramgeet - the couple whose quarantine breach case has garnered international headlines - had their sentences reduced from four months to two months in jail.
There have been multiple instances of explosions of cases in prisons in the UK in the last few months. The same thing could easily happen in the Cayman Islands or anywhere else because jails and prisons are hotbeds for Covid spread. It only takes one case being introduced through prison staff or other methods for things to spiral out of control.
I don't see why a fine is price of entry but jail time is deterrence. And if Cayman jails are less punishing than US jails, which I can understand, then the 2-4 months is even more meaningless than a fine.
Fine her $100 million or 50% of her family's net worth to be used for COVID treatment and prevention, whichever is higher, and call it done.
For the most part, I don't believe in retributive justice so I do not see the point of jail time if:
1) It does not prevent future quarantine dodgers
2) It does not help anyone to combat COVID (unless you think it's valuable to remove her freedom of travel in which case I agree! So we should consider an international travel ban for 5 years)
Like, what is the point of jail here? Is the point just to sate schdenfreude?
It's not going to work in an international situation. americans are constantly protected from these kinds of things on top of having enough wealth to just bog the courts down. And yes this does prevent tourists from not taking the rules seriously.
It's a tough situation, but if you're going to argue this is a bad solution I'll need to here a better alternative. I absolutely think prison conditions need to improve, but that's a separate issue from whether or not the existence of a prison system should exist or whether people should be locked up at all. We all seem to agree fines would be useless here since they're not an obstacle to the rich and making them equally as detrimental to the rich as to the poor is pretty much impossible (scalable fines still run into the issue that a multimillionaire losing a million dollars is still not equivalent to someone who is poor and actively accumulating debt losing even $10) so if confinement is not a solution I'd like to hear what you think would be the appropriate course of action to take given their actions were premeditated and could potentially have put people's lives at risk.
Also on whether these types of penalties act as a deterent, I'd argue that part of the reason they fail is because people don't think they'll actually be enforced, or if they are enforced they think they'll be exempt. The most important part of a deterent is that people believe it would apply to them, so applying it fairly and equally is of the upmost importance. I also don't think 4 months is some sort of life ending sentence
Never in my fucking life, fuck drunk drivers. Both that and breaking quarantine are an actual endangerment to people's lives and not "something stupid".