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14 year old Iranian girl murdered by father in ‘honour killing’ after eloping with 35 year old boyfriend

Sage

Sage

Member
Oct 27, 2017
680
Japan
Police in Iran have arrested a man accused of murdering his 14-year-old daughter in a so-called honour killing that has sparked widespread outrage.

Romina Ashrafi ran away from home in Gilan province with her 35-year-old boyfriend after her father objected to their marriage, local media said.

The pair were found by police and Romina was sent home despite reportedly telling them she feared for her life.

Last Thursday night, she was allegedly attacked by her father in her bedroom.


www.bbc.com

Romina Ashrafi: Outrage in Iran after girl murdered ‘for eloping’

Romina Ashrafi, 14, was allegedly killed by her father after she ran away with her older boyfriend.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com


There is apparently widespread outrage about this in Iran, but bizarrely none of the focus appears to be on the fact that a 35 year old man groomed a 14 year old girl? From the article:

"Insecure paternal home", read the headline in the pro-reform Ebtekar, which lamented the failure of existing legislation to protect women and girls.

Is not seeing it as a good thing that your 14yo daughter is dating a 35 year old a sign of 'insecurity?' Even on western media reports bizarrely this angle is also ignored. It seems to me the girl here is a victim of both a vindictive, murderous father and a grooming predator, no?
 
Chaos2Frozen

Chaos2Frozen

Member
Nov 3, 2017
28,041
I get what you mean OP but the girl being murdered definitely overshadowed that other creepiness by a lot.
 
Z-Beat

Z-Beat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,846
There isn't a single phrase in that headline that isn't fucked up
 
bionic77

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,894
Ugh. I don't know if we need threads like this.

It's just pure cruelty and madness.
 
RyuCookingSomeRice

RyuCookingSomeRice

Alt account
Banned
Feb 5, 2020
1,009
It is not beyond normal that girls are punished for the relationships they have, be it a 35 year old or someone from a family that is undesired. \
In the middle east

Sad to say this is the way of life there. Not the killing part though, that is disugsting.

But I remember many stories like this. Honor punishments etc. Girls going through horrible things to make their parents be happy.
 
EatChildren

EatChildren

Wonder from Down Under
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,029
SecondNature said:
How do you have such low respect for your fucking daughter
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Parents with moral compasses governed by fanatical ideology will butcher their kids if it means retaining honour, appeasing god, or whatever other horseshit. In my line of work we've gone to talks where clients exposed to "honour killing" related stuff will detail how fucked it can be. We had one that was given refugee status in Australia. He'd come to this country as a student from Saudi Arabia, from a wealthy family, and learned that he was gay. Once his family learned they cut off his financial support and refused to assist him with extending his student visa, under the intent of having his visa lapse and him deported so he could be honour killed back in Saudi Arabia, due to the "shame" he was bringing to his father's name. It wasn't until he threw himself off a bridge that local authorities learned his circumstances and gave him a refugee crisis visa. He said he'd otherwise have been put on a plan, deported, and within 24 hours of arriving home been executed. While he was in hospital after his suicide attempt recovering both physical injuries and severe mental instability his family proceeded to call and harass the hospital.

That's the kind of derangement we're dealing with here.
 
The Dink

The Dink

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,056
Strange how honor killings most often involve the disenfranchised and vulnerable as the victims. Weird how that works out.
 
Desi

Desi

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,210
EatChildren said:
Parents with moral compasses governed by fanatical ideology will butcher their kids if it means retaining honour, appeasing god, or whatever other horseshit. In my line of work we've gone to talks where clients exposed to "honour killing" related stuff will detail how fucked it can be. We had one that was given refugee status in Australia. He'd come to this country as a student from Saudi Arabia, from a wealthy family, and learned that he was gay. Once his family learned they cut off his financial support and refused to assist him with extending his student visa, under the intent of having his visa lapse and him deported so he could be honour killed back in Saudi Arabia, due to the "shame" he was bringing to his father's name. It wasn't until he threw himself off a bridge that local authorities learned his circumstances and gave him a refugee crisis visa. He said he'd otherwise have been put on a plan, deported, and within 24 hours of arriving home been executed. While he was in hospital after his suicide attempt recovering both physical injuries and severe mental instability his family proceeded to call and harass the hospital.

That's the kind of derangement we're dealing with here.
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there was I believe a good New Yorker article that goes into deaths like these for people in the LGBTQ+ community in the middle east/southern russia. If I can find the article I'll post it.


found it: The Gay Men Who Fled Chechnya's Purge, it also touches on "honor killings" for women as well. The families pray on the feelings of loneliness to drag people away from their partners. Then kill them once they return.
 
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krazen

krazen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,145
Gentrified Brooklyn
EatChildren said:
Parents with moral compasses governed by fanatical ideology will butcher their kids if it means retaining honour, appeasing god, or whatever other horseshit. In my line of work we've gone to talks where clients exposed to "honour killing" related stuff will detail how fucked it can be. We had one that was given refugee status in Australia. He'd come to this country as a student from Saudi Arabia, from a wealthy family, and learned that he was gay. Once his family learned they cut off his financial support and refused to assist him with extending his student visa, under the intent of having his visa lapse and him deported so he could be honour killed back in Saudi Arabia, due to the "shame" he was bringing to his father's name. It wasn't until he threw himself off a bridge that local authorities learned his circumstances and gave him a refugee crisis visa. He said he'd otherwise have been put on a plan, deported, and within 24 hours of arriving home been executed. While he was in hospital after his suicide attempt recovering both physical injuries and severe mental instability his family proceeded to call and harass the hospital.

That's the kind of derangement we're dealing with here.
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Damn, that's fucking dark.
 
Gotdatmoney

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,500
EatChildren said:
Parents with moral compasses governed by fanatical ideology will butcher their kids if it means retaining honour, appeasing god, or whatever other horseshit. In my line of work we've gone to talks where clients exposed to "honour killing" related stuff will detail how fucked it can be. We had one that was given refugee status in Australia. He'd come to this country as a student from Saudi Arabia, from a wealthy family, and learned that he was gay. Once his family learned they cut off his financial support and refused to assist him with extending his student visa, under the intent of having his visa lapse and him deported so he could be honour killed back in Saudi Arabia, due to the "shame" he was bringing to his father's name. It wasn't until he threw himself off a bridge that local authorities learned his circumstances and gave him a refugee crisis visa. He said he'd otherwise have been put on a plan, deported, and within 24 hours of arriving home been executed. While he was in hospital after his suicide attempt recovering both physical injuries and severe mental instability his family proceeded to call and harass the hospital.

That's the kind of derangement we're dealing with here.
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Jesus christ. This is so fucking sad.
 
EatChildren

EatChildren

Wonder from Down Under
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,029
Desi said:
there was I believe a good New Yorker article that goes into deaths like these for people in the LGBTQ+ community in the middle east/southern russia. If I can find the article I'll post it.

found it: The Gay Men Who Fled Chechnya's Purge, it also touches on "honor killings" for women as well. The families pray on the feelings of loneliness to drag people away from their partners. Then kill them once they return.
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Super interesting. Thanks for the link.

krazen said:
Damn, that's fucking dark.
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Gotdatmoney said:
Jesus christ. This is so fucking sad.
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If it makes you both feel better he's alive and well here, doing talks about his experience, how it lead to collapse of his mental health and resulting homelessness. He talks about how his Saudi Arabian friends here openly accepted his sexual identity, but in the same breath had to abandon him. He didn't hold any amnocity, because their reasoning was sound; if they were heard of associating with him after his parents knew he'd come out they too by association would be seen as bringing shame, complicating their own lives. Because he grew up in wealth and privilege he also had no real comprehension of asking for help, coming from the attitude of just kinda getting on with it, not asking for handouts, etc. He had no idea of what support Australia had, and didn't learn until he tried to kill himself. Threw himself off one of our major bridges into the water below. Very high fall, would have been guaranteed dead of the water police hadn't spotted him.

It took a long time for him to get back on track but yeah. He's alive, surviving, has a home, works, and a life now here. But he's really just one of many stories. I've honestly lost count of clients of mine who came to Australia as refugees, literally just got on planes or boats with their kids and left, because every second they spent in their home country they were at extreme high risk of death. From women in their 30s whose violent, abusive husbands got involved in complicated political issues and disappeared, leaving a trail of questions from people looking for him now asking her and in the worst ways imaginable. To child brides now 17/18 escaping the violence, while their family attempt to find and lure them back overseas with intent to have them killed.
 
Kitsunebaby

Kitsunebaby

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,662
Annapolis, Maryland
It's unbearably heartbreaking and disgusting that the 35 year old child-grooming pervert was a better alternative to living in her own home. My heart aches for any girl who grows up in such a misogynistic household.
 
Budi

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,883
Finland
Yeah while it's definitely good to object that marriage, the girl was a victim of a predator. And now she's also a victim of a murder. I can't comprehend how the father thought his daughter was in the wrong or responsible at all. This is all kind of fucked up and absolutely devastating.
 
HardRojo

HardRojo

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,123
Peru
Today I learned honor killing is a thing and a concept that actually exists. What a fucked up to do no matter what you believe in. The fact that the father isn't more outraged at the fucking 35 year old is really something.
 
MisterSnrub

MisterSnrub

Member
Mar 10, 2018
5,904
Someplace Far Away
What a disgusting and miserable society it must be to create these sorts of outcomes. I'm glad i don't have to live with the lifelong curse that it is to be born in one of them.
 
Gifmaker

Gifmaker

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
964
One can't help but wonder what that honour's supposed to be the father was trying to protect. Like, what's honourable about any of this? Fucking shame.
 
Midgarian

Midgarian

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Apr 16, 2020
2,619
Midgar
OP. This kind of age disparity or adult with young teen in a relationship IS NOT normal Iran, nor the Middle East no. The reason that's not the headline is that the girl is dead.

However having said that, Child Marriage, not sending daughters to school and Honour Killing are both unfortunately still problems amongst the most Conservative communities of the Middle East. In Turkey both are disproportionately practised in the rural and Conservative Kurdish majority South-Eastern region, not because of their ethnicity, but because it is the poorest and least developed part of Turkey where thousands of year old rural customs and norms still find nooks to exist in the 21st Century. Sometimes Honour Killings even happen in the Turkish Kurdish diaspora in Western Europe.

Such practises are not as prominent amongst the ethnic Turkish people anymore, which is on average more Westernised and developed in comparison.

However there is still an underlying psychology of Honour that permeates our ethnic Turkish culture. Even amongst non-religious people and modern educated people. It usually manifests itself as the need to show a "good face" to family and friends, to not do social actions considered "rude" and to obey the will of your familial elders.

Some females (and males!) will be passive aggressively bullied and guilt tripped by their parents to end romantic relationships they do not approve of for example. It's benign (in the sense of no killing or child marriages, and the very fact romantic relationships are not seen as bad in and of themselves) but it is still a mental health damaging menace that robs the autonomy from adults (let alone teens, most Turks live with their parents until marriage which can go into their 30s and 40s!). Another example is if the career path/lifestyle people are following isn't approved by their parents or if they academically fail. Or if they are getting to a certain age and are still unmarried and are then pressured to start dating (worse for females of course, but males can get this hassle as well). This latter one is ironic when you think of the example I gave at the start of this paragraph.

While more and more Turks and Kurds and family lines are moving away from such nonsense, there is still a long way to go. The fact that even non-religious, petite bourgeois, European in all but name Turkish circles can still have these psychological complexes around Honour tells you how deep the roots are buried.

EatChildren said:
Parents with moral compasses governed by fanatical ideology will butcher their kids if it means retaining honour, appeasing god, or whatever other horseshit.
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Just want to clarify as your post is a bit vague. The Honour aspect isn't tied to Islam. It may overlap at times, but it is independent of Islam. I'm an Atheist from a Muslim majority ethnicity, so I'm the last person that will defend Islam, but I don't want "Islam influenced this!" to be the headline here.
 
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Murfield

Murfield

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Oct 27, 2017
1,425
I can understand the murder overshadowing the other immoral aspects of this story, especially since she told the police she feared for life and they did nothing to protect her.
 
Yrch

Yrch

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Oct 29, 2017
502
I remember having a few cases of honor killing in Germany a few years ago.
Something about girls being in relationship with Germans instead of their own people.

How fucked up do you have to be to think that your families "honor" has been tainted by whatever bullshit you make up and then want to kill your own family to "restore" it.

In this Case he should have dragged that 35 year old to the police and get help for himself and his daughter. But seems like women are still worthless property for some of these idiots.
 
Ocean Bones

Ocean Bones

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
4,725
What a horrifc barbaric backwards ass society. Fucking coward. You're supposed to protect your children.
 
Inquisitive_Ghost

Inquisitive_Ghost

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Oct 26, 2017
6,123
Glasgow Mega-Snake said:
Honour killings are so fucked

Like where the hell is the honour in murdering your own child?
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Gifmaker said:
One can't help but wonder what that honour's supposed to be the father was trying to protect. Like, what's honourable about any of this? Fucking shame.
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Yrch said:
I remember having a few cases of honor killing in Germany a few years ago.
Something about girls being in relationship with Germans instead of their own people.

How fucked up do you have to be to think that your families "honor" has been tainted by whatever bullshit you make up and then want to kill your own family to "restore" it.

In this Case he should have dragged that 35 year old to the police and get help for himself and his daughter. But seems like women are still worthless property for some of these idiots.
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How honour killings happen is a lot easier to understand when you understand that honour is really just a synonym for credibility. Honour has nothing to do with "noble character" and everything to do with "saving face" as a member of a culture/religion/etc. that is against whatever the victim did. So you have situations where the child does something or other that is severely prohibited by the culture/religion, and the parent then murders the child to preserve the credibility of the dogma prohibiting the child's behaviour, as well as the parent's standing as a "good" follower of the dogma.

I am not blaming the victims here. The original issue in all of these cases is a culture and/or religion that views death as an acceptable punishment for questioning the prominent dogma, as well as valuing dogma over human lives. I'm just trying to clear up a misconception about the psychology of why this happens.
 
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EatChildren

EatChildren

Wonder from Down Under
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,029
Midgarian said:
Just want to clarify as your post is a bit vague. The Honour aspect isn't tied to Islam. It may overlap at times, but it is independent of Islam. I'm an Atheist from a Muslim majority ethnicity, so I'm the last person that will defend Islam, but I don't want "Islam influenced this!" to be the headline here.
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Oh yeah, sorry if it came across that way, as it wasn't at all what I was implying. Fanatical ideology umbrella; all if it.
 
EatChildren

EatChildren

Wonder from Down Under
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,029
Midgarian said:
Thanks for your reply. Yep that's what I thought you meant initially, sorry if my post came across as harsh I didn't mean it to read that way if it did.
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Nah, no apology needed. I'm so desensitised to language due to work that I sometimes forget normalised (and unfair) correlations others might assume, like "fanaticism" with "Islam". I appreciate the added clarity.
 
Excuse me

Excuse me

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Oct 30, 2017
2,020
Horrible shit. Can't really wrap my head around how fanatical some people can be. Besides honor killings there should be real discussion about honor violence among religious communities. Children and teenagers can be subjugated to physical and/or psychological violence in order to "save face/honor".
 
phonicjoy

phonicjoy

Banned
Jun 19, 2018
4,305
Sage said:
There is apparently widespread outrage about this in Iran, but bizarrely none of the focus appears to be on the fact that a 35 year old man groomed a 14 year old girl? From the article:

"Insecure paternal home", read the headline in the pro-reform Ebtekar, which lamented the failure of existing legislation to protect women and girls.

Is not seeing it as a good thing that your 14yo daughter is dating a 35 year old a sign of 'insecurity?' Even on western media reports bizarrely this angle is also ignored. It seems to me the girl here is a victim of both a vindictive, murderous father and a grooming predator, no?
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I think the fact that she was fucking decapitated by her father is were the focus SHOULD be.
 
Potterson

Potterson

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,414
Can't we just take all religious fundamentalists and extremists and just send them to the North Pole or somewhere, after taking their children ofc.
 
Gifmaker

Gifmaker

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
964
Inquisitive_Ghost said:
How honour killings happen is a lot easier to understand when you understand that honour is really just a synonym for credibility. Honour has nothing to do with "noble character" and everything to do with "saving face" as a member of a culture/religion/etc. that is against whatever the victim did. So you have situations where the child does something or other that is severely prohibited by the culture/religion, and the parent then murders the child to preserve the credibility of the dogma prohibiting the child's behaviour, as well as the parent's standing as a "good" follower of the dogma.

I am not blaming the victims here. The original issue in all of these cases is a culture and/or religion that views death as an acceptable punishment for questioning the prominent dogma, as well as valuing dogma over human lives. I'm just trying to clear up a misconception about the psychology of why this happens.
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So fanatism killing would be a more appropriate term, then.
 
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