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Wingfan19

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Oct 25, 2017
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Worth reading the whole article, there's a lot here. I posted this in the old thread, but New News = New Thread



"The erasure of people of color from the 2017 theatrical version of Justice League was neither an accident nor coincidence," Ray Fisher calmly, but sternly stated.

"For one thing, the cast and crew were told that Zack had handpicked Joss to finish the film for him. I didn't find out until after the reshoots that that was a complete lie." Fisher began. "I heard whispers and rumblings of things being off behind the scenes, but nothing concrete until much later. They had us go out to San Diego Comic-Con in 2017 and say Zack picked Joss and that Joss was a great guy. I still have the email with those talking points."

Fisher explained to Forbes the exact moment he decided he needed to take a public stand.

"What set my soul on fire and forced me to speak out about Joss Whedon this summer was my becoming informed that Joss had ordered that the complexion of an actor of color be changed in post-production because he didn't like the color of their skin tone," Fisher firmly stated. "Man, with everything 2020's been, that was the tipping point for me." Whedon did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

After Zack Snyder left Justice League's production in early 2017 following a family tragedy, Warner Bros. Pictures brought in Joss Whedon to conduct reshoots that heavily altered the original film. The cast of the film was taken aback by the things that happened in Snyder's absence. Yet, the cast was not aware of how bad things were about to get.

"You've got to understand, Zack stepped away to be with his family, and we wanted to give him space to do that," Fisher said. "He and I didn't speak for about a year after he left."

"You really have to ask yourself, what's more plausible—that I would purposely torpedo my career by making statements about powerful figures in Hollywood, that, if untrue, could be easily refuted. OR a handful people in positions of power said and did terrible things in order to maintain that power during a massive corporate merger."

While Fisher was candid about his frustration with the studio, he was still clear that he's not at war with the entire studio.

"I'm not in a fight with Warner Bros." Fisher sighed. "I'm in a fight with a handful of people that are attempting to use Warner Bros. to cover their tracks. All the significant film and tv work I've done has been under the WarnerMedia banner. I love what I do and who I've been blessed to do it with."
 

mugurumakensei

Elizabeth, I’m coming to join you!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,320
As I said in the other thread, i am not surprised at all. Those who enabled Johns, Berg, and Whedon need to go.
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,085
It's god damn disgusting is what it is. But like he said, you don't cut the roles of 6 minority actors by accident.

But I'm sure there are folks ready to stick their heads in the ground and pretend not to hear this about Whedon.
 
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Wingfan19

Wingfan19

Layout Designer
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Oct 25, 2017
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It's god damn disgusting is what it is. But like he said, you don't cut the roles of 6 minority actors by accident.

But I'm sure there are folks ready to stick their heads in the ground and pretend not to hear this about Whedon.
It's so crazy to me that Joss's brother, Jed is like the total opposite. Never heard a bad word about him from the SHIELD crew.
 

Dabanton

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,908
It's god damn disgusting is what it is. But like he said, you don't cut the roles of 6 minority actors by accident.

But I'm sure there are folks ready to stick their heads in the ground and pretend not to hear this about Whedon.

Plenty of them on the other thread. Was enlightening to re-read the first few pages of the other thread. The posters who were caping hard for Whedon and Johns.

Do these people think someone wants to torpedo their career by lying? Much less a black person whose already coming from a perspective of not being believed.
 

FPX

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,272
Outside of Fisher, multiple actors of color had their roles completely removed or heavily-reduced in Justice League.

The role of Ryan Choi, played by Zheng Kai, was cut. Joe Morton, who played Cyborg's father Silas, had his role mostly cut and reshot. While Zack Snyder included a diverse cast of characters, many of them had roles significantly altered, or disappeared from the film altogether before it arrived in theaters. Karen Bryson, who played Cyborg's mother Ellinore, had her role cut as well. Additionally, Kiersey Clemons, who played Iris West, was removed from the film. All of them will appear in 2021's Zack Snyder's Justice League. According to representatives for Whedon, these decisions were made prior to his taking control of the project.

Between this and Momoa siding with Fisher (as well as other cut actors), and Godot's stunt double who was forced to do that shitty "Flash falls on boobs hur durr" scene, I don't get how this shit can be defended. Sucks that this isn't getting the press it needs, hopefully Snyder cut will get more focus onto it.

Do we know whose skin colour Whedon asked to change in post?
 

Deleted member 69501

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"Joss had ordered that the complexion of an actor of color be changed in post-production because he didn't like the color of their skin tone," Fisher firmly stated. "

Geeeeez, I wonder which character he's referring to.

Also, what merger of he refering too?
 
May 24, 2019
22,176
The complexion thing is wild. I'm in post production and you do have to mess with skin tones in grading all of the time, so I'd be interested in seeing how far the that example went. If the objective was a full on race shift, that's nuts.
 

Yams

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,840
Between this and Momoa siding with Fisher (as well as other cut actors), and Godot's stunt double who was forced to do that shitty "Flash falls on boobs hur durr" scene, I don't get how this shit can be defended. Sucks that this isn't getting the press it needs, hopefully Snyder cut will get more focus onto it.

Do we know whose skin colour Whedon asked to change in post?

don't worry someone on this site will defend Whedon soon enough
 

TyraZaurus

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,439
This makes it all the more disappointing that the Snyder Cut is continuing to use Amber Heard, Ezra Miller, and Jared Leto.
 

rude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,812
"Joss had ordered that the complexion of an actor of color be changed in post-production because he didn't like the color of their skin tone," Fisher firmly stated. "

Geeeeez, I wonder which character he's referring to.

Also, what merger of he refering too?
who is he referring to? I haven't seen the movie
 
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Wingfan19

Wingfan19

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Oct 25, 2017
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If nothing else, Zack's JL will at least give all these actors their time to shine and offer a better representation in the DC Universe. We can finally throw the Josstice League in the bin and say Zack's is the the true and canon version.
 

Deleted member 69501

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who is he referring to? I haven't seen the movie
Sorry that is my question as well...it can't be any of the leads ...unless they adjusted the shade of one of the leads in post rather then change the skin color outright (this is certainly not unheard off, think Meaghan fox in transformers). Eitherway, this is highly suspect.
 

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
When he made the initial complaints it was assumed that he had firsthand experience with an abusive on-set situation or hostile work environment. What's largely detailed here is secondhand or thirdhand information - "I heard from someone else that so-and-so did this." True or untrue, the studio and figures involved can refute them.

I will be curious to see how the formal investigation pans out, because it sounds like there's other people willing to speak or come forward.
 

MistahS

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Sep 2, 2018
3,730
Seems like WB is full of trash people and this whole drama with the JL reshoots exposed them. As if using Zack's daughters suicide as a way to completely redo the film wasn't bad enough.
 

JDSN

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,129
A representative for Whedon said; The individual who offered this statement acknowledged that this was just something that he had heard from someone else and accepted as truth, when in fact simple research would prove that it was false. As is standard on almost all films, there were numerous people involved with mixing the final product, including the editor, special effects person, composer, etc. with the senior colorist responsible for the final version's tone, colors, and mood. This process was further complicated on this project by the fact that Zack shot on film, while Joss shot on digital, which required the team, led by the same senior colorist who has worked on previous films for Zack, to reconcile the two.
I hope this is not the excuse for taking a shitload of black people out of a movie.
 

TyraZaurus

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,439
Zack gonna fix all of this, which is good news.

WB, do better next time kthx

is he really?

like I'm not trying to create or feed a rivalry between two different camps, but like I said before, the Snyder cut cast still contains several known abusers.

It feels like this is an unfortunate legacy tied to both versions of the film.
 

ZeoVGM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
76,005
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Zack gonna fix all of this, which is good news.

WB, do better next time kthx

I mean, is he?

He's bringing Jared Leto (a known predator of young women) and Amber Heard (an abuser) onto the set to film new scenes.

That isn't to create a "who is worse" thing because if Fisher's allegations against Whedon are true, it is unquestionably wrong. But claiming Zack is going to "fix" things ignores the clearly problematic issues he is creating himself.
 

Firemind

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,524
I mean, is he?

He's bringing Jared Leto (a known predator of young women) and Amber Heard (an abuser) onto the set to film new scenes.

That isn't to create a "who is worse" thing because if Fisher's allegations against Whedon are true, it is unquestionably wrong. But claiming Zack is going to "fix" things ignores the clearly problematic issues he is creating himself.
WB hasn't fired them as of yet. That includes Ezra Miller who is headlining the Flash solo movie. Maybe you should redirect your issues to the companies who employ them. That includes Sony Pictures and Marvel Entertainment for casting Jared Leto as Morbius.
 

ZeoVGM

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Oct 25, 2017
76,005
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WB hasn't fired them as of yet. That includes Ezra Miller who is headlining the Flash solo movie. Maybe you should redirect your issues to the companies who employ them. That includes Sony Pictures and Marvel Entertainment for casting Jared Leto as Morbius.

I was replying to someone who said Zack is "fixing" the issue -- as in relating the upcoming Justice League reshoots to what happened in the original shoot.
 

Ambient

Member
Dec 23, 2017
7,042
Whedon is a piece of garbage. Dude is scum.
"What set my soul on fire and forced me to speak out about Joss Whedon this summer was my becoming informed that Joss had ordered that the complexion of an actor of color be changed in post-production because he didn't like the color of their skin tone," Fisher firmly stated. "Man, with everything 2020's been, that was the tipping point for me." Whedon did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
 

TyraZaurus

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,439
WB hasn't fired them as of yet. That includes Ezra Miller who is headlining the Flash solo movie. Maybe you should redirect your issues to the companies who employ them. That includes Sony Pictures and Marvel Entertainment for casting Jared Leto as Morbius.

Except in Leto's case he's being brought on to film additional material.

also Zack is perfectly capable of protesting these individuals' inclusion, and Leto being in Morbius is also terrible. Not sure what you're trying to achieve with that tbh. We're not upset with this because we're Marvel fanboys.
 

Deleted member 6730

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Movie would've sucked regardless of the director. It was a doomed project from the start.
I feel bad for Ray Fisher though. It doesn't look like he's gotten much acting work since then.
 

Firemind

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Oct 25, 2017
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Except in Leto's case he's being brought on to film additional material.

also Zack is perfectly capable of protesting these individuals' inclusion, and Leto being in Morbius is also terrible. Not sure what you're trying to achieve with that tbh. We're not upset with this because we're Marvel fanboys.
You must be new in OT. ZeoVGM is a known Joss Whedon fan.
 
Article Was Changed/Updated
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Wingfan19

Wingfan19

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Oct 25, 2017
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Huh, looks like Forbes updated their article to remove the part about Ray saying Joss changed actors skin tone, while also providing statements from Whedon's team

kh18d1qa34w51.jpg
 

Firemind

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,524
And I am not upset with this because I am a fan of Whedon. If it's true, he's garbage.

But can you at least admit that looking at this story and claiming that Zack is "fixing" things while literally bringing abusers to the set to film new scenes is a poor take to have?
Eh, it's not officially confirmed yet Heard and Leto are reprising their roles for the additional photography. If they are, then I will agree it's not great optics. Even then Snyder cast Heard before the lawsuits and Leto wasn't cast for his movies.