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SilentPanda

Member
Nov 6, 2017
13,621
Earth
In New Zealand, people are going to malls without masks and sharing popcorn with friends in movie theaters. In Australia, they are watching live theater and sports and seeing bands perform at packed concerts. Thai people in Bangkok are drinking inside busy bars and dancing, while in Taipei, the Taiwanese capital, more than 130,000 gathered for one of the only Pride parades to take place in person this year.

"Pride was huge. There was a ton of people out," said Perry Truong, a 25-year-old English tutor who moved last year from the US, where there are currently almost 200,000 new COVID-19 cases each day, to Taiwan, where there hasn't been a new locally transmitted case of the coronavirus in more than 200 days. "It's really not in my mind at all," Truong said. "I don't feel anxious about catching the virus. I don't feel scared about not wearing a mask to public places. For lack of a better word, it's really normal."

"It feels weird," he added, "because I feel like when people talk about this in 10 years, they'll be like, 'Remember the pandemic?' and I'll be like, 'There was a pandemic?'"

The return to normalcy in these lucky countries — or as much as is possible in a global pandemic — was not miraculous, but hard-won. In New Zealand, the entire country endured one of the strictest and earlier lockdowns in March. In August, residents of Auckland, population 1.7 million, went back into lockdown for over a month after an outbreak there. The number of new cases that prompted the shutdown? Just 17. "Going hard and early is still the best course of action," said Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern, who won reelection in a landslide in October thanks in part due to her handling of the crisis.

Australian officials, too, imposed a severe lockdown in the state of Victoria in June after a cluster emerged there, sparking hundreds of new cases a day. It lasted more than 100 days but the state has had zero new infections since the end of October.

Other countries like Taiwan, Singapore, and South Korea never went into lockdown to tame the virus, instead relying on a mix of technological measures, such as extensive contact tracing and testing, as well as cultural practices, such as commonly accepted mask-wearing. "Even before COVID, whenever people were ill, just as an extra precaution they would wear masks on buses and trains," said Karmen Truong, a 26-year-old digital marketer in Taipei, "so when COVID happened, it wasn't really an issue."

While Americans may be looking to these countries with envy, they are looking back in horror. The spiraling situation here is huge news for people there, as they struggle to make sense of America's unique culture and politics. "I feel less critical of the whole situation [in America] because I know there's probably cultural differences in the US and people are more free-minded," said Dhangwattanotai, the Bangkok software developer. "But I hear my friend in the US say that some people don't believe it's a thing or that it's not that serious or they can get it and recover and it's fine. I think that's insane."

"I think we just don't get it," said Hayman, the Perth mother. "Maybe because we don't celebrate Thanksgiving, but just the idea of traveling across the country and meeting in these big groups when it's just such a disastrous situation — the idea that it's all about yourself: 'I want to do that and I want to see my family!' Well, we haven't seen our friends or family from other states for almost a year. It's a bit like, What are you doing? Why would you put other people at risk like that? It's mind-blowing."


www.buzzfeednews.com

“There Was A Pandemic?” What Life Is Like In Countries Without COVID

COVID infections are low to nonexistent in several countries, where life looks practically normal. Some people even occasionally forget there’s a pandemic going on.
 

aznpxdd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,669
Life is not nearly close to normal even for Taiwan. Tons of families are still separated between China/Taiwan/HK due to all the travel restrictions and quarantine rules.

Life is pretty normal for peeps who never traveled (for family, business, etc.) globally even before the pandemic.
 
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SilentPanda

SilentPanda

Member
Nov 6, 2017
13,621
Earth
Life is not nearly close to normal even for Taiwan. Tons of families are still separated between China/Taiwan/HK due to all the travel restrictions and quarantine rules.

Life is pretty normal for peeps who never traveled (for family, business, etc.) globally even before the pandemic.

pretty normal for me though, I had a aunt just come back from China, she has her own apartment, and she's staying in there for the 14 day home quarantine.

and me or other family member will bring her food, and she talk on line with my mom and aunts all the time, and plan to go to place when it's over.
 

Joni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,508
pretty normal for me though, I had a aunt just come back from China, she has her own apartment, and she's staying in there for the 14 day home quarantine.

and me or other family member will bring her food, and she talk on line with my mom and aunts all the time, and plan to go to place when it's over.
Yeah, that feels like life where there was never a pandemic.
 

aznpxdd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,669
pretty normal for me though, I had a aunt just come back from China, she has her own apartment, and she's staying in there for the 14 day home quarantine.

and me or other family member will bring her food, and she talk on line with my mom and aunts all the time, and plan to go to place when it's over.

Right and if your aunt needs to go back to China she will have to quarantine for another 14 days in designated hotels in designated city with multiple covid tests, they aren't so loose with the quarantine like Taiwan. That's a month lost right there traveling just next door, yeah, life is not normal dude.

also, not everyone is rich and have their own empty apartment to quarantine in.
 

Lastbroadcast

Member
Jul 6, 2018
1,938
Sydney, Australia
I had a friend of mine come back from New York to Sydney a few months ago. When he arrived we were in a stretch of 10 days with no community transmission of covid cases. On the 11th day of his hotel quarantine there was a case. He said to me "oh well, there it goes, there'll be hundreds of cases in two weeks". I said to him "nah, you watch, our contact tracers will stomp on it". And sure enough, there were another ten or so cases, but the contact tracers got it under control within a week.

When he got out of quarantine he could not believe that people were going on with everyday business without masks. It was so far removed from what he'd seen that he cognitively couldn't adjust to being in a place with so little community transmission.

Life isn't 100% normal - state borders here are still not completely open, and we are not back at work in the office yet. Aged care homes are only allowing small numbers of visitors. People are still trying to social distance. But mask wearing isn't common. And most other aspects of daily life are pretty normal. I went to a cricket match in Sydney a week ago. Stadium was 50% capacity. I went to a shopping centre one week ago. I visited my parents the other day.

Everyone in Sydney knows this can all change in an instant, as Victoria showed, but people are just enjoying the almost negligible community transmission while it lasts.
 

The Waistcoat

Member
Nov 8, 2017
405
Life isn't normal in Singapore and they did have circuit breakers which were basically lockdowns. They're still managing the affects of covid.
 

Trisc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,485
Looking for a job during this time has been hellish, to say the least. When I think I've gotten an offer, I have to consider if it's remote or in-person, and if it is remote, whether I'll be able to continue working remotely when the pandemic ends.

It hasn't been fun, to say the least. I envy my friends in New Zealand. They get to live with some shred of normalcy.
 

i_am_ben

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,011
It really depends on where you go in Australia. It's a big place.

I'm from Melbourne, and after 100 days of lockdown, surging community transmission and close to a thousand deaths, I'll never be able to forget this year.

We just had our 42nd virus free day here in a row, and I have nothing but a deep admiration for my fellow Melbournians and how we all pulled together.

We're a sports mad people down here, and it truly felt like people pulled together like a team.

I'm heading out to a restaurant for the first time since March tomorrow and it's gonna be awesome.
 

mieumieu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
900
The Farplane
I wouldn't call intermittent small outbreaks and people freaking out about them like in my home country "normal".
I wouldn't call wearing a mask at all times other than at home and my work desk "normal", either.

But it's better than most, that's for sure.
 

aiswyda

Member
Aug 11, 2018
3,093
Looking for a job during this time has been hellish, to say the least. When I think I've gotten an offer, I have to consider if it's remote or in-person, and if it is remote, whether I'll be able to continue working remotely when the pandemic ends.

It hasn't been fun, to say the least. I envy my friends in New Zealand. They get to live with some shred of normalcy.
This has been a big thing for me. No one is hiring recent graduates bc they'd like to be able to train them in office...but also most of the office is WFH so there's a limited amount of people to train them, and there's also the risk of whenever there's a bad spike (which...is often as I'm in a bad area atm). I've had job interviews where I was supposed to hear back after 2 weeks either way just ghost me bc we went back into full lockdown so they have no interest in hiring....
 

Chasing

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
10,683
I would not say that life feels like it did before the pandemic. Everyone is still on their toes with the virus looming over us, and travel being restricted is a very big deal for both businesses and families. People might be a bit more lax about social distancing, but mask-wearing continues to be enforced/recommended and I would not feel safe if I did not go out wearing one.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,081
I wouldn't call intermittent small outbreaks and people freaking out about them like in my home country "normal".
I wouldn't call wearing a mask at all times other than at home and my work desk "normal", either.

But it's better than most, that's for sure.

That's certainly underselling it. If you're not seeing 3000 deaths a day, it's better. If you're seeing 300 deaths a day? That's amazing. 0? What kind of magical land is that?

I just hope the governments and people of Europe and the U.S. learn a lot from these countries.
 
Oct 25, 2019
589
As a Melburnian, things are in a weird state where it's almost back to normal as I've been out to restaurants & the shops each week since the heavy restrictions ended, and my wife and I even went to Geelong for a long weekend recently.

But I still put my mask on for my daily walk and I'm still working from home for the foreseeable future. I guess this is the Covid normal?
 

RestEerie

Banned
Aug 20, 2018
13,618
Life isn't normal in Singapore and they did have circuit breakers which were basically lockdowns. They're still managing the affects of covid.

it's not back to 'normal normal' and we still got to wear mask everywhere but then, schools are open, people are patronising restaurants and even the cinemas are available.

So i'll say it's pretty much 'mostly' normal here in singapore.

International travel is still pretty much busted though.
 
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SilentPanda

SilentPanda

Member
Nov 6, 2017
13,621
Earth
As a Melburnian, things are in a weird state where it's almost back to normal as I've been out to restaurants & the shops each week since the heavy restrictions ended, and my wife and I even went to Geelong for a long weekend recently.

But I still put my mask on for my daily walk and I'm still working from home for the foreseeable future. I guess this is the Covid normal?

Yep, I still wear mask, and have a few back-up mask for the idiot friends that don't wear or forgot when going out together.
 

SuperBanana

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,739
But I still put my mask on for my daily walk and I'm still working from home for the foreseeable future. I guess this is the Covid normal?

The mask isn't required for walks anymore and offices are returning. It seems like a lot more will go back on January 11 too. It's not fully normal but getting there.

Also, you want to get out of working as home as fast as you can if you work at a company. I deal in management and so many jobs are going to be lost soon. I'm seeing it already where the bosses are realizing if a local worker can do their job from home, why can't a Filipino do the work for 1/10 of the price? Several companies have already gutted their middle management and administration jobs to move overseas. If your job is doable at home, then it's doable from anyone's home.
 

Cascadero

Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,525
it's not back to 'normal normal' and we still got to wear mask everywhere but then, schools are open, people are patronising restaurants and even the cinemas are available.

So i'll say it's pretty much 'mostly' normal here in singapore.

International travel is still pretty much busted though.
Agree on a daily basis the mask thing feels very regular by now.
Wait for Lunar New Year when most people will realise it is not back to normal. The mask is one thing, but when the family gatherings cannot happen like normally due to restrictions it will feel different to many.
 

Lulu

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
26,680
I know a few Aussies in NYC who went back when this all started. Looking at their IG makes me said and jealous.
 

RestEerie

Banned
Aug 20, 2018
13,618
Agree on a daily basis the mask thing feels very regular by now.
Wait for Lunar New Year when most people will realise it is not back to normal. The mask is one thing, but when the family gatherings cannot happen like normally due to restrictions it will feel different to many.
it's normal for me as i don't go visit during CNY..... :P
 

ZackieChan

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,056
I've been living in Bangkok since before COVID, and I'm so glad I didn't go back to the US in February like I had planned. I actually would have been on the Princess Cruises ship just before the one that was carrying the first COVID patients, which would have been wild.
It's a night and day difference here from what I see in the West. But like the article says, it was hard fought. They shut down nearly EVERYTHING for months and a ton of people who don't have remote online businesses like me were completely fucked. We donated loads of food a few times to help people, but some donations isn't enough. It hurt a ton of people and suicides did go up.
The tourism industry is fucked now, but apparently they're starting to let anyone in, as long as you quarantine for 2 weeks (at a hotel you don't get to choose).
So it's relatively "normal" - I go to the gym, don't wear a mask inside, use machines near people, go to restaurants and the mall and the movies. But there were months where things were real bad.
Unfortunately in the US, you didn't go far enough and it never actually went away.
 

MarioW

PikPok
Verified
Nov 5, 2017
1,155
New Zealand
In NZ here. Last weekend I was at a multi artist concert with 12k people. Life mostly normal though I am missing my frequent overseas travel.

A correction on the article though. The second lockdown here which happened in the city of Auckland was actually not triggered by the discovery of 17 cases, but actually only 4 cases in a single family (the number of cases grew in the following days as people had already been exposed). The lockdown happened the next day after those cases were discovered.
 

Scarecrow

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,507
Things are pretty normal in Vietnam, though we have the few odd cases here and there. We're excited to see WW84 in theaters next week.
 
Nov 8, 2017
13,092
Life is returning to normal, but I still feel the impacts in Tasmania despite being virus free for half the year almost. I still partially work from home; restaurants and venues are still impacted because of the trickle of tourists (some closed down for instance), places still have limits on the # of people in certain spaces, movie releases are impacted because of the global situation, etc.

Even if I was in a coma during the part of the year that we had active cases, I would still definitely notice life being different.
 
May 24, 2019
22,180
I'm in New Zealand. In my field (editing TV shows) I've experienced an extended lack of work since about April, but luckily I have savings. It's ramping up in the new year, so hopefully then it WILL be back to normal.

You do need to wear masks on public transport right now. I think that was brought on by just one of the few community transmissions in our second wave having taken a bus while they were sick, and months later it's still going.
I visit my mother in a rest home a couple of times a week. There had been on and off restrictions after the initial lockdown, but there are none at the moment. You can come and go without appointment and make physical contact, no problem.

Just last weekend I attended a packed 24 hour movie marathon. We probably gave each other all kinds of airborne illnesses, just not Covid.
 
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Abylim

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,022
Australia
As a QLD'er, it's been mostly ok. We haven't had anywhere near the lockdowns the others have. It's still had it's scary moments. I won't soon forget this year. But it's been a stark contrast to my family back in Toronto
 

LuigiV

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,684
Perth, Australia
Western Australian here. Things have been pretty much back to normal here since June so yeah I can definitely relate to that article.
 

Bigjig

Member
Jun 4, 2018
1,210
I'm just glad Australia got things under control in time for the Aussie cricket season :)
 

mentok15

Member
Dec 20, 2017
7,285
Australia
Here in Melbourne Aus it's only started to get back to normal in the last month. Masks are now only required where social distancing cant be done, like inside shops or public transport. It's nice to walk without one on.
 

PSOreo

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,260
"What pandemic?" I feel that's such an arrogant and ignorant statement to make. Tell that to all the grieving families, to the countless people who lost their jobs and repercussions this will have for years to come. Fuck right off.
 

Mavis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,476
Blue Mountains
"What pandemic?" I feel that's such an arrogant and ignorant statement to make. Tell that to all the grieving families, to the countless people who lost their jobs and repercussions this will have for years to come. Fuck right off.
Yeah it's utter bollocks. Here in Australia no one will be saying 'What pandemic?". Jobs were lost, educations were impacted, businesses were closed, savings were raided etc. not to mention the impacts on mental health. I have one friend who's spent the last 8 weeks in an acute mental health facility, mainly due to the pressures put on her during the lockdown and subsequent difficulties.
 

Deleted member 28474

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 31, 2017
6,162
Yeah it's utter bollocks. Here in Australia no one will be saying 'What pandemic?". Jobs were lost, educations were impacted, businesses were closed, savings were raided etc. not to mention the impacts on mental health. I have one friend who's spent the last 8 weeks in an acute mental health facility, mainly due to the pressures put on her during the lockdown and subsequent difficulties.
Yeah, I haven't come across anyone who would say such a shitty thing. I don't believe things are normal here either. I am in the Greater Hunter/Lake Macquarie area and it has been months and months since local spread here, but the majority of people still try to do the right thing, are social distancing etc. A number of people still wear masks but it isn't too ubiquitous. I'll start wearing masks again all the time during the holidays when people will travel to this area. Still scanning QR codes to get into restaurants etc etc. And as a mental health worker, I deeply dread the future. However, many people are working together to try and make sure the changes in policy will ACTUALLY help and won't just be short sighted bullshit.

Obviously, case numbers need to be at a certain point for contact tracing to really be able to crush outbreaks and clusters, along with compliant folks of course. So while things are out of control in many places around the world, I feel like it is really worth stressing that when things settle down it is very much worth complying with contact tracing measures. Yeah, it isn't the most comfortable thing ever as far as privacy goes, but the virus doesn't give a fuck about our conventions and cultural norms. We've just gotta do the right thing by each other and while anything can happen and things can get worse here really easily, contact tracing has been so invaluable here it is hard to express.

I think this article was a pretty decent read too https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2020...d-of-novotel,-ryde-hospital-covid-19/12965730
 

Stove

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,078
Melbourne here. Despite our numbers the pandemic hit everyone hard in some way and we will all be feeling this for some time.

I lost both my jobs. My gym was forced to close permanently, I did not see anyone but my partner for the 100 day plus lockdown.

There were also the little things. I'm a diehard for footy and this is the first year i can remember where I couldn't support my team in person. Again its not a big thing but the little things add up.

I'm so proud of how most of us pulled through and cooperated. Seeing life almost back to normal has been strange. But again, everyone has been affected in some way and there will definitely be no "what pandemic?"
 

Chaofahn

Member
Nov 16, 2017
462
Melbourne, Australia
Another Melbournian here - while it's been a month and a bit since the last new case, and while we aren't at the "what pandemic?" stage, we're definitely drifting back to a "COVID-normal" situation and you can see the bars and cafes packed with people.

I feel for Europeans and Americans, but while talking to my European colleagues I realised that the current predicament over there might actually be a "cultural" thing - the idea that life over in Europe is "free" and that the freedom can't be found here in Australia (apparently especially during the lockdown). I've had several of them argue that everyone should've just gotten on with their business and that everyone would've gotten infected at some point, that the lockdown was not worth the sacrifice.

That's... groovy and and all but for someone like me who had their first child right before the Stage 4 restrictions started, that type of thinking was hugely irresponsible. Yeah, it might've infected them and they may have gotten over it, but thanks for totally considering my (and many others') family. 🙄
 

Saito

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,802
Everyone in these areas should be very proud of themselves. It cannot be said enough how well the response was managed. Meanwhile here in the states I just watch everything burn around me.
 

riverfr0zen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,164
Manhattan, New York
"What pandemic?" I feel that's such an arrogant and ignorant statement to make. Tell that to all the grieving families, to the countless people who lost their jobs and repercussions this will have for years to come. Fuck right off.

While I understand your reaction, you can't really blame people for where they are mentally as a result of their surrounding environment. I don't think anyone is literally saying "what pandemic", it's a literary device in the article to express the general sentiment of people who live in these safe places.
 

WinniethePimp

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,399
EU
While i don't think life is back to normal at all in these countries, i know that i'd definitely feel a LOT safer living in a place with no or almost no active cases at all than in the EU right now where nothing is under control at all and governments are just trying to somehow get by and survive until the vaccine shows it's effects. Sadly, by then it will be too late for a lot of folks (not just talking deaths but also long term health ramifications due to Covid etc.)
 

Paz

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,148
Brisbane, Australia
"What pandemic?" I feel that's such an arrogant and ignorant statement to make. Tell that to all the grieving families, to the countless people who lost their jobs and repercussions this will have for years to come. Fuck right off.
If someone said "remember that horrendous famine" and you said "what famine" you aren't being a dick on purpose towards countries that suffered massive famines in recent years, the quote you're referring to is used by someone in the article to illustrate how utterly out of sync their experience is with those who are actively dealing with a pandemic.

and I totally get it, we had a few minor scares here in Queensland australia but for the most part things are just 100% normal here, it's surreal when I see or hear about what's going on elsewhere.
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670
I think praise of South Korea's COVID response should be tempered with the acknowledgment that they violated the privacy of their citizens to get where they are. The other countries mentioned show this is not necessary to keep deaths and infections at a minimum.
 

G_Shumi

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,131
Cleveland, OH
One big takeaway I got from the article is that no one in the countries mentioned (Taiwan, New Zealand, Australia, etc.) ever questioned wearing a mask.

Some people in the article that were interviewed said that they just did it without pushing back and that anti-maskers was a uniquely American thing.

It just goes to show that there are plenty of people that DO have common sense, but brainwashing is a hell of a thing that's very deadly in the US.

I wish we had a competent leader guiding us through the pandemic and am very envious of the countries mentioned in the article that do.
 

Psittacus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,930
Things are as normal as you could expect when you need to maintain 24/7 readiness to slow and stamp out outbreaks

I will say though that there's a world of difference in the feeling of precautions in case someone might have COVID due to an undetected outbreak and taking precautions because COVID is endemic.

One big takeaway I got from the article is that no one in the countries mentioned (Taiwan, New Zealand, Australia, etc.) ever questioned wearing a mask.

Some people in the article that were interviewed said that they just did it without pushing back and that anti-maskers was a uniquely American thing.
They definitely exist, but the vast majority of people will begrudgingly do their part when told to. In spaces where masks aren't mandatory compliance is low unless there's an active outbreak though, and as soon as it even starts to look like the worst is over it falls further.
 

Lurcharound

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,068
UK
"What pandemic?" I feel that's such an arrogant and ignorant statement to make. Tell that to all the grieving families, to the countless people who lost their jobs and repercussions this will have for years to come. Fuck right off.
I can see how it could be taken that way, but it's clearly not the actual context. That "what pandemic" is a reality for many is a bitter pill that needs to be swallowed or at least understood and the learning taken from it.

Many, many people have died who didn't have to, many, many have lost their jobs who didn't have to; and that key fact, they didn't have to, should be swept under the carpet and those who did a better job don't need to avoid stating their reality either.

Globally so many countries fucked up their response se and that's were the fault lies. Doing a better job and noting it isn't arrogant or ignorant, it's an earned position.

I'd actually say the arrogance & ignorance sits with the countries that could have done so much better but didn't.

I type this sitting in UK knowing as a relatively small island it would have been so easy to do better, to quickly impose quarantine at border and combine that with effective lockdown and prevent Covid even getting a foothold.

I should be sitting finishing lunch somewhere with friends, that I'm not isn't bad luck it's the result of governmental and social responsibility failures.

I get this results in anger but don't blame their messenger; not when the message is truthful.
 

Tygre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,100
Chesire, UK
"What pandemic?" I feel that's such an arrogant and ignorant statement to make. Tell that to all the grieving families, to the countless people who lost their jobs and repercussions this will have for years to come. Fuck right off.

Wow, then you must still be really torn up about the Tsnuami too?

I'm sure you know immediately and unquestioningly what I'm referring to, yes? Without having to google it or anything?

You certainly wouldn't have forgotten such a major disaster than killed hundreds of thousands of people around the world, would you?
 

Renpatsu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
328
Melbournian here, I found these sentiments from the article pretty accurate to how I was feeling during Victoria's second lockdown.
"I would say Australians are pretty skeptical of government. Politicians are not considered amazing people. Everyone rolls their eyes talking about them," she said. "It's not that we were making the sacrifices for Australia; we're doing it for each other. We weren't doing it because we thought it would please the government. We were doing it because it would please each other."
By and large you won't find anyone in Victoria forgetting about the pandemic, but through our hardwon efforts so much of our collective anxiety has been assauged to the point where we can get on with our lives without the harbinger of Covid clinging to the back of our minds.
 

WrenchNinja

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,731
Canada
Wow, then you must still be really torn up about the Tsnuami too?

I'm sure you know immediately and unquestioningly what I'm referring to, yes? Without having to google it or anything?

You certainly wouldn't have forgotten such a major disaster than killed hundreds of thousands of people around the world, would you?
Yeah, where I'm at with the pearl clutching.
 

Orayn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,929
This is damaging my will to live, given the knowledge that America has, is, and will continue to fuck this up so bad that it will literally never be over here.