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“It’s just the vocal minority”
- Thread starter pleaseinsertdisctwo
- Start date
When most gaming sub reddits have hundreds of thousands of subscribers, i think the sample size is large enough to be representative of a large chunk of the community, except the most casual of players.
I 1000% agree with this take, the only thing I'd say in response is that the issue still stands that majority of discourse (not limited to gaming) is repeating oft heard talking points and/or responses or parroting what someone else in a youtube video says versus actually diving into the content they're discussing or really using critical discussion skills.
I can agree that it's sill to even use but the issue is ingrained in common social media discourse that it's better to use "oof, this ain't it chief" etc and name calling and hand wave-y responses because actual conversation tends to go no where and/or is too much. I think we can better our tools of discussion while still admitting that the vocal minority point may be correct.
It becomes impossible to discuss with people when either they speak on their tastes as definitive/objective critiques or barely substantiate their claims or arguments without debating the merits and counter points of their perspectives.
the term has its uses. when a small group complains about a certain thing so much and so often that it takes over the entire conversation, it makes it seem like their complaints are the general consensus. meanwhile most people are ok or don't even care about that thing that bothers the small group so much. in that case it needs to be pointed out that it's just a vocal minority making their voice heard, disproportionately.
people here often act as if their opinion is shared by a large ammount of people.
Too often you see stuff like "this game is trash" and then whole threads act as if that is a common feeling when generally it is not. Hell look at most of the polls on this forum...very rarely the expected is the lead. So I think generally it is used fairly.
Its okay to not like something. Its just that when you attempt to make sure everyone also doesn't like it is when you will get push back.
At the end of the day, this shit is just not that serious so people who spend most of their time yelling about shit they hate will almost always be in the vocal minority camp. Go outside of this board and you will see a bunch of people like "hated" games and enjoy them despite their issues. Some take things too serious at times/
Too often you see stuff like "this game is trash" and then whole threads act as if that is a common feeling when generally it is not. Hell look at most of the polls on this forum...very rarely the expected is the lead. So I think generally it is used fairly.
Its okay to not like something. Its just that when you attempt to make sure everyone also doesn't like it is when you will get push back.
At the end of the day, this shit is just not that serious so people who spend most of their time yelling about shit they hate will almost always be in the vocal minority camp. Go outside of this board and you will see a bunch of people like "hated" games and enjoy them despite their issues. Some take things too serious at times/
Meh, it is more a way to explained to people here that they aren't "the world" only because they are "aware users" of the media.
Never saw that, show us.
I used it on childish behavior so it is mostly the other way around.
I honestly don't need to respect any random persons opinion, whether it's the "minority opinion" or not. Respect is something that is earned. It's not a guaranteed right.
We are on an enthusiast forum; a niche within the hobby.
There's nothing wrong with criticism, but a good dose of self-awareness isn't going to hurt anyone either. Almost every complaint thread on this forum is going to be the result of a vocal minority. Does that mean you shouldn't complain? No. But should you also recognize that your complaints are probably not representative of the gaming audience at large and that the opinions of others and the priorities of developers are not beholden to your own? Yes, you should also do that.
Could I make a thread complaining about Madden, and how I think it's a boring series that doesn't deliver a compelling football experience? I could, but do I honestly think the developers should be catering to me? No. Being upset about the success of something just because you don't like it and it isn't catering to your desires isn't a good mindspace to occupy.
There's nothing wrong with criticism, but a good dose of self-awareness isn't going to hurt anyone either. Almost every complaint thread on this forum is going to be the result of a vocal minority. Does that mean you shouldn't complain? No. But should you also recognize that your complaints are probably not representative of the gaming audience at large and that the opinions of others and the priorities of developers are not beholden to your own? Yes, you should also do that.
Could I make a thread complaining about Madden, and how I think it's a boring series that doesn't deliver a compelling football experience? I could, but do I honestly think the developers should be catering to me? No. Being upset about the success of something just because you don't like it and it isn't catering to your desires isn't a good mindspace to occupy.
One, there's never a situation were these people agree on any controversy, that's what makes it a controversy. So even if you were correct that point isn't valid because it assumes all those people were making the same point, which won't ever be true
two, no it isn't. In the case of pokemon, for example, 800k would be 5% of all the sales that game had until now, which is nothing. And i highly, highly doubt it ever come close to that number.
That phrase is mostly used when people start being delusional like the entire fanbase is complaining about something and it's going to be a big deal, and it the end nothing happens because the people complaining weren't actually that many and they were just being loud.
Case in point, Pokemon Sword.
I don't take it as a way of saying "your opinions don't matter", but more like "you're being overly dramatic about this".
Case in point, Pokemon Sword.
I don't take it as a way of saying "your opinions don't matter", but more like "you're being overly dramatic about this".
A topic with a poll gets posted asking if people are excited for an upcoming sequel to a game. The poll results are 93/7.
Post 1: "I like this game that has a Metacritic score of 95 and sold 20 million copies. I'm excited to see what the sequel does because (reasons)."
Post 2: "Yeah, but it's irredeemable trash because the menus are ugly."
Posts 3 through 300 are then an all-out sprint to agree with Post 2.
Again, not really.
People who actively participate in fan subreddits/sites are generally representative of the voice of more engaged and hardcore fans of games but they still only represent that kind of fan and the views of different demographics (especially for popular titles) vary wildly.
exactly. it's completely valid to have opinions and complaints that are in the minority and not shared by many. no one will come at you for that. it's when you try to make it seem like your opinion is the correct one and others have it wrong or try to call out others for sharing your fringe opinion (to the point of being annoying) that you become part of the so called vocal minority.
It is not the sense of the word here. The sense is more like "Minor injury".
Not even close. Most people who play games, or watch a movie or tv show or whatever are never going to go on a message board and comment on it. They remain the minority.
I dislike it because I associate it with Nixon and the "silent majority" who supported him regarding Vietnam against the "vocal minority" protesting Vietnam.
Being part of either group doesn't mean you're right or wrong. Sometimes the majority is wrong, and sometimes they're right.
Anyway this is gaming, not politics
Being part of either group doesn't mean you're right or wrong. Sometimes the majority is wrong, and sometimes they're right.
Anyway this is gaming, not politics
it's usually not 49% tho, more like 5% making 10 times the noise as the remaining 95%.
Are we really going to pretend this isn't valid because there isn't empirical data on hand to back it up?
I do agree with this. Alot of this comes from the idea that it's a fact if a game is good or terrible, like it's something that can be objectified, so we have people extrapololating their opinion on others and declaring this is fact and if something is a "fact" we aren't going to go deep on our interpretation or discuss why we feel the way do or consider that others coming from different background, preferences, experiences are going to have a different interpretation and that it's natural for them to feel that way. The discussion in gaming is inherently confrontational, and a lot of it I think comes from the console warring history of gaming which encouraged us to build up an identity in a particular game or company which means if we are disappointed by it or someone else does even a mild critique of something we like it can feel like an attack on ourselves. I don't really know what the solution is for that but i do feel like it's holding us back from more thoughtful critques and discussions which would be beneficial for both the community and industry as a whole.
Also worth noting that the amount of people subscribed to a subreddit, and the amount of people actively engaged in that community in terms of posting content or commenting, are drastically different numbers. Subscribing to a subreddit is a super low effort, low engagement thing, so its a nebulous stat
You'd think the whole "vocal minority" thing would have died in 2013 after the whole Xbox DRM thing. Or more recently with Apple killing the butterfly keyboard and brining back the ESC key in the MacBook Pro. Companies do listen (sometimes).
This. A good example of this is with Pokemon Sword and Shield. If you'd listen to the fanbase online, the people complaining about it are by far the loudest, which'd make you think that the consensus is that it's a failure.
When you look at the game's sales numbers, it's already sold more than 16 million copies and it's the fastest selling Switch game so far.
I do agree that "it's just a vocal minority" isn't a good reason at all to dismiss concerns though.
I think "vocal" is the keyword here...and it is functioning as an understatement. It's not that people in the minority are simply voicing an opinion...they are often taking an extreme position so they can call attention to themselves.
example: "last of us/botw/god of war (2018) are the worst game(s) ever"
example: "last of us/botw/god of war (2018) are the worst game(s) ever"
Vocal minority, as a term, is almost always used when someone with no opinion has asked for confirmation about something within a game that they heard from someone else was bad. So what we have here is someone looking to try out a product, and maybe they read somewhere that this and that were an issue and made the game unplayable. It's the whole reason literally unplayable became a meme. Because literally unplayable to the vocal minority may be perfectly fine for 90% of gamers. And others who are fans of a game don't want to see someone with that opinion harm the company that makes a product they like.
A story my mother told me once was that, in high school, she was good friends with a girl in her class. That girl didn't like this other girl and said a lot of mean things about her. Years later, she ran into "the other girl" at a party and talked with her. Turns out they had a lot in common and became very close friends after that. The lesson is that you can't always take a minority opinion and run with it as gospel. Now, if a lot of people think you're an asshole, then maybe you should look into that. The gaming analogy there is that some games really do end up like Warcraft 3: Reforged and piss off a lot of people.
A story my mother told me once was that, in high school, she was good friends with a girl in her class. That girl didn't like this other girl and said a lot of mean things about her. Years later, she ran into "the other girl" at a party and talked with her. Turns out they had a lot in common and became very close friends after that. The lesson is that you can't always take a minority opinion and run with it as gospel. Now, if a lot of people think you're an asshole, then maybe you should look into that. The gaming analogy there is that some games really do end up like Warcraft 3: Reforged and piss off a lot of people.
You assume the "vocal minority" aspect is what drove these decisions.
While these may have contributed to narratives and memes around these decisions, there's also every reason to believe these reasons were economic more than anything else.
If people don't buy Xboxes (Regardless if they complain online as to why, and ignoring the fact that there was a cheaper, more powerful option in front of them), then MS makes a decision because their numbers are down.
Apple replaces their keyboards because they are seeing an impact to their bottom line due to all of the keyboards they are having to fix.
The a-to-b on people complaining on a forum to companies making change is not as clear as you make it sound.
Usually when a thread is created to talk about a particular game's negatives it will only attract people who think the same way. That's a pattern I have noticed at least, this is also probably true for a thread created to talk about a particular game's strengths.
Well if you're the minority you factually don't matter. Things won't get catered to you. This website has a ton of members not connected to the outside world. By that I mean normal fucking people. If you get all your info from the Era bubble or other places that are similar then you'll never know the other side of things. And by that I don't mean the "bad" stuff (were all saints here), I mean everything else.
But I think the reason people call so many people out on here for that reason is that the mindset of members here is "but Era and my friends all feel like I do so the entire world probably does too." You guys talk like it's factual. You need to be brought down to earth. For all our sakes.
Living in a bubble isn't healthy.
Mostly stop being so smug.
But I think the reason people call so many people out on here for that reason is that the mindset of members here is "but Era and my friends all feel like I do so the entire world probably does too." You guys talk like it's factual. You need to be brought down to earth. For all our sakes.
Living in a bubble isn't healthy.
Mostly stop being so smug.
I agree, that phrase is used very often to dismiss criticism and it fails to do that for many reasons, some already mentioned.
-No data to back this up, a game selling many units doesn't mean the majority who bought it doesn't have complaints.
-49% is also the minority
-Even if it is a minority that is vocal about something this doesn't make their opinion invalid or insignificant.
-No data to back this up, a game selling many units doesn't mean the majority who bought it doesn't have complaints.
-49% is also the minority
-Even if it is a minority that is vocal about something this doesn't make their opinion invalid or insignificant.
It's also possible to criticize a game without antagonizing other people that enjoy a game or the developers of said game, even though that's frequently the case on this site. Thankfully the majority of people that engage in criticism of a game do so in a reasonably respectful manor, and it's just the vocal minority of the critics that are actively toxic.
Basically, it all depends on context, and there is nothing inherently wrong with the phrase.
When a game like Pokemon can sell 16M copies, and almost every single thing I've read about it here has been negative, I think the term still applies. Unless you want to argue that people who buy Pokemon games enjoy bad games I guess.
But I think it's more likely what the people complaining don't like actually doesn't matter to the majority of people buying the game.
It doesn't mean it's less valid a complaint, but what it means is not everything is made to appease you.
Just like in Hollow Knight how people complain about the map and traveling around. Fine. But not everything is made to make you happy, so go ahead and complain and move on, but know other people probably enjoy the stuff you don't and that's why it is like it is, not because it's bad or it is some terrible system that is unfair, it's because people really enjoy it and you don't, and that's ok.
But I think it's more likely what the people complaining don't like actually doesn't matter to the majority of people buying the game.
It doesn't mean it's less valid a complaint, but what it means is not everything is made to appease you.
Just like in Hollow Knight how people complain about the map and traveling around. Fine. But not everything is made to make you happy, so go ahead and complain and move on, but know other people probably enjoy the stuff you don't and that's why it is like it is, not because it's bad or it is some terrible system that is unfair, it's because people really enjoy it and you don't, and that's ok.
It's mainly used when people are being overly critical of something and acting like their opinions are "objective". Just kind of reminding them that everybody might not feel the same way.
Vocal minority pops up because so many gamers on forums think their opinions are the dominate one and anything else is a outlier opinion or is just wrong.
Gamers tend to lack perspective on how a game is actually recieved and tend to lean in on saying a game is either a terrible shit pile or blessed by the lord miyamoto himself.
Gamers tend to lack perspective on how a game is actually recieved and tend to lean in on saying a game is either a terrible shit pile or blessed by the lord miyamoto himself.
It was just a joke, but the point of the post I was responding to was we should pretend things aren't valid if there isn't empirical data on hand to back it up.
Is this reaction to the fact Dexit was a huge failure? The huge sales Sword and Shield got just proved that was a vocal minority.
