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Just because a game's methods didn't captivate YOU doesn't mean they're a wholesale, derivative failure
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“I don’t think I like Prestige Games”
- Thread starter Proven
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Just because a game's methods didn't captivate YOU doesn't mean they're a wholesale, derivative failure
That's a matter of personal taste. Personally I'm just not really into style action games like nier, bayo, dmc for the most part. Just not for me.
Imagine writing a long ass serious article like that about video games....and then admitting you've never played Shadow of the Colossus.....what a clown,lol.
So playable set pieces don't count as something only doable in videogames because what? Because Nathan Drake suddenly doesnt turn into the shooting triangle is some cyber world?
They idea that their work counts less because they are not leveraging video games in some wacky ways in a game that tries to be REALISTIC is laughable
I dislike DocSeuss' posts and I think he's the Tim Rogers of bad opinions, but I don't understand what playing Shadow of the Colossus has to do with anything. It's like saying I can't provide any opinion on games just because I've never played Super Mario Galaxy or 64.
People have different tastes. No one's taste is more valid than another's. That's why I'm more confused why his blogpost is generating this much discussion when his similarly toned posts here in Era aren't given the same level of attention.
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For me its basically if i had fun i like it if i didnt i dont like it. I dont think too deep. His last of us example i find it strange. A lot of media we consume today whether games or films or books are retelling an old tale. Different characters, similar scenarios and similar last act. So do they instantly become pointless because they are telling a tale already been told? If i go around looking for just 'new' then there will be very very few options especially today. To me as long as it was fun and engaging thats great.
I completely agree with you. I really liked The Last Of Us and I think it did some interesting stuff in the way it used what you did in the game to enhance the story. Especially how it contextualises Joel's violence as the story and not just the obligatory action part (altought it totally is that but they do something interesting with it story wise).
I think, for example, it's much more successful at doing that than God of War for example. But I also liked God Of War. I mean, I didn't blew my mind but it's a fun action game. The issue is how these games are sometimes perceived as this jump in storytelling or something when they are mostly cinematic stuff (that movies do better) with some action gameplay in between.
But I totally agree that The Last of Us at least tries (and I think it succeeds in parts) to use the fact that it's a game to enhance the story. Most of these games doesn't do that.
Yeah thats fair, im not really big on cinematic set piece driven games. I realize im coming across as kinda harsh on TLOU, i do really like it and it still has cool moments that work because its a video game, first thing that comes to mind is the generator in the school gym, that was awesome.
I really dont rate the uncharted games though, i feel their praise is a tad over blown.
You can have opinions all you want but acting like you are better because of it - kinda bullshit dont you agree?
It's a very hot button topic. TLOU2 coming soon, so there is the easy cherry pick comment to say that games like that are walking sim movies.
I mean, by their very nature those set pieces always have a determined start and finish, they might as well be cutscenes.
I didnt attack Uncharted because its not wacky enough, I attacked it because its boring. and i could throw out everyones least favourite buzzword here but cmon man, whats realistic about nathan drake mowing down tens of thousands of goons single handedly?
uncharted, to me atleast is just boring to play but fun to watch.
I mean it's kind of damned if you or don't there, because without those elements, then you get uncharted which is called "shallow".
I don't know man....the guy is acting like he's some connoissuer of what makes gaming great and hasn't even played one of the greatest of all time....anyway,you may be right but honestly the thing reads like barely disguised fanboy drivel for the most part,lol.
Here's what Uncharted brought to the table: it allowed the player to be part of a set-piece, where it was once passively viewed from an outsiders perspective through film/TV. Sure, Uncharted probably wasn't the first one that did it, but it legitimized that style and made it mainstream. Whether you like that or not is a separate discussion, but that doesn't diminish the game's importance.
A lot of people just find that style fun, of going through setpieces, taking cover, a lot of chaotic action and hollywood tier action shooting.
I lost count of how many times the guy called himself a genius in his article. I spent 8 years in college, met a lot of guys like him. He had some great points, but then he says that Crackdown 3 was one of the best video games released recently, and I just can't.
Just because movies do stuff better don't mean games must not try .
Movies have been around much longer than games and games still growing tech wise.
Part of the fun of games is being in the action .
They're not even aiming for the same thing, and it goes without saying, but that's just your opinion.
Being part of the action is always more fun than watching it .
Which is why people like those crazy set pieces from many different types of games.
Well. Most story related stuff in videogames are scripted and have starting point and ending. By your logic you can same the same about the E ending scene in Nier. They can just make that gameplay sequence a cutscene and nothing will change.
Boring why exactly? Because you don't like tps games or because you have some legit criticism about game design of Uncharted games?
The bolded is something that can be done/is done in books.
I think that was already highlighted but using movie set piece and making them interactive is using the particularity of the medium. Using Ellie as a character that can help and save you in-game is also using the particularity of the medium.
I agree with you both that the guy is full of himself, I just don't think not having played SotC is something to criticize him over.
Bioshock would be a lot more comparable to halflife. Uncharted would be compared to tomb raider.
I appreciate the thought that goes into articles like this and I respect that game journalists, writers, etc. find ways to dig a bit deeper into a subject. But, at the end of the day, games (for me at least) are about moment-to-moment entertainment. Even in so-called "bad titles", I typically find some areas of enjoyment or things to learn from. This enjoyment comes from a medium that is its own thing–aka needs no validation or acceptance from the "mainstream".
Is the story in Uncharted 2 ridiculous? Absolutely. Did I enjoy my time with game? Absolutely.
Is The Last of Us an amalgamation of many post-apocalyptic themes we've seen many times before? Absolutely. Did I enjoy my time experiencing Joel and Ellie's story? Absolutely.
My main takeaway from this is I would appreciate a handful more AAA titles that were less "realistic" and more stylized.
Is the story in Uncharted 2 ridiculous? Absolutely. Did I enjoy my time with game? Absolutely.
Is The Last of Us an amalgamation of many post-apocalyptic themes we've seen many times before? Absolutely. Did I enjoy my time experiencing Joel and Ellie's story? Absolutely.
My main takeaway from this is I would appreciate a handful more AAA titles that were less "realistic" and more stylized.
So sections of games with determined starts and ends might as well be cutscenes? Is that better or worse than when they *are* cutscenes?
God forbid you read any of his thoughts on FromSoftware games. He despises those the most.
Fair enough....but if I was gonna write a piece like this about video games I'd do it from the perspective of having a universal knowledge of the medium...and that would mean having played all the important games....like you said I guess this guy is so full of himself he thinks he can educate us all regardless.
I don't agree with the whole of the article, but I do agree that The Last of Us absolutely prioritizes being like a movie to the point it compromises the ways in which it's like a game. It railroads the experience too much in defiance of player input, has little freedom, and doesn't have many unique ways players can tackle its challenges. You're playing less the way you want to and more the way the game is making you.
I'd never heard of him before today...won't be reading any more of his thoughts on anything,lol.
I don't think games should try to be movies.
I mean, if you want to do that then more power to you but I will never see a game imitating a movie and claim it's an achievement in storytelling within games.
So video games shouldn't tell stories because movies do that already?
I stopped reading this article very early on because it read like an incoherent rant without any worthwhile insight.
And when it starts with stupid claims about what is and isn't art and how gameplay must be the core pillar of every video game, then I can't possible expect things to get any better down the line.
I understand not liking things a lot of other people like, but how insecure do you have to be to try to rationalize your taste in such a self-righteous way?
And when it starts with stupid claims about what is and isn't art and how gameplay must be the core pillar of every video game, then I can't possible expect things to get any better down the line.
I understand not liking things a lot of other people like, but how insecure do you have to be to try to rationalize your taste in such a self-righteous way?
Back on Gaf he used to pop in Dark Souls threads just to say how generic he finds it and is baffled by the praise. I'm only remembering this from memory since I can't find any of his Gaf posts anymore so I could be mistaken, but IIRC he claimed that The Witcher 3 has better combat than Bloodborne. DocSeuss you can correct me if I'm wrong on this one.
Though from his recent posts he seem to have warmed up to Dark Souls.
I don't doubt people like that. But personally it just brings these games down.
Ok,thanks for this....complete clown confirmed.(Of course he's entitled to his opinions....his very bad opinions,lol)
The point is that games have more means of conveying story than just dumping cutscene after cutscene and linear scripted events on you that might as well just have been a B-Tier movie.
Prestige Games? Hmm, sounds like something for video game enthusiasts. With games such as The Last of Us, God of War and Uncharted also a consistently positive used term, imo. Which company doesn't want to be associated with such games? Of course, not everyone can do that, because if it would be that easy, everyone would make such games, I guess. Prestige Games. I like that term, going forward let's use it with a positive meaning.
Yeah. Just how uncharted and TLOU does when they do storytelling ingame with character dialog and other environmental stuff. Did you play those games?
Just finished reading the article. It's got quite a lot to say. And seems to be scientifically formulated to get Era mad at him lol.
I think a lot of it comes off as pretentious, but I did agree on quite a few points. AAA gaming has not really gone in a direction that resonates with me since, I dunno, probably around the tail end of the PS2 generation. The points raised about game stories being derivative of other media though, I don't really care about that. I've always taken more of a "storytelling is more important than story" kind of approach to media, where the story can be basic or derivative as shit, but give me a compelling narrative and interesting characters and I don't care. As long as the game isn't just a series of storydump cutscenes loosely connected by gameplay corridors, I'm fine with it. I can get emotionally invested in that. Most of the games he criticizes on the basis of story in the article fall under such scope. I found myself agreeing more on his criticisms of game systems and on market appeal.
I think a lot of it comes off as pretentious, but I did agree on quite a few points. AAA gaming has not really gone in a direction that resonates with me since, I dunno, probably around the tail end of the PS2 generation. The points raised about game stories being derivative of other media though, I don't really care about that. I've always taken more of a "storytelling is more important than story" kind of approach to media, where the story can be basic or derivative as shit, but give me a compelling narrative and interesting characters and I don't care. As long as the game isn't just a series of storydump cutscenes loosely connected by gameplay corridors, I'm fine with it. I can get emotionally invested in that. Most of the games he criticizes on the basis of story in the article fall under such scope. I found myself agreeing more on his criticisms of game systems and on market appeal.
But that does describe a lot of the games he talked about?
1. Haven't played either of them TBH. I don't know much about them, either. Gears 5 looks very pretty is about all I know.
2. Not sure I understand why these two particular games?
It was also very long - So I skipped a lot near the end where I felt like I got the point.
I noticed now after searching that Gears 5 was mentioned near the end.
I don't feel I need to read it like an academic paper to agree with the general sentiment.
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