‘What I say to Disney is do not market a black character as important and then push them aside" from John Boyega's latest interview on GQ

[BetterOffEd]

You suggested that "they need to work together to get off a planet that Rey had no trouble flying into" was a valid way to justify Luke's absence in TFA and the backstory of the trilogy.....not a single one of your suggestions had a theme or overall message behind them beyond vague notions of twists for the sake of twists, aka the main reason why Finn and most of the cast are at his worst in TROS specifically.

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what are you talking about?

those weren't themes or twists. I was pointing out that it wasn't necessary to avoid a time skip. Has nothing to do with backstory of the trilogy. And I agree the ideas were shoddy and spit-balled. This is how any idea in your favorite movie would sound when thrown around a story room: Finn goes to a casino planet and frees some horses, light speed attack, Luke astral projects himself into the final battle, Poe mutinies

If any of those things hadn't been in the movie, and someone suggested them, you would hate them

And, of course, if any of my ideas, were a part of the movie, they'd have been fleshed out, properly themed, made exciting, and you'd be here defending them

If this is your idea of me berating a person for their opinion then you have never actually seen me do that. No I am not angrily scolding or criticizing Boyega's opinions.

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How??? You are definitely criticizing him:

He insisted, as part of that marketing campaign, that he wasn't shafted in TROS, which I can't imagine was an argument made in good faith even if there is a shit ton of extra footage somewhere involving his character. Then very shortly post release he heavily trolled the hell out of the movie and both its detractors AND fans.

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and unfairly at that

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

He gets about as much screen time as Han or Leia did in the original trilogy. Kind of hard to make the argument that he was pushed to the side. No he's not the lead character, but he was never really supposed to be.

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Han and Leia actually got more screen time as the original trilogy went on. Finn went from far and away the second most prominent character in his debut movie to being cut down significantly in the sequel. You can argue he got a few more minutes in TROS compared to TLJ but.... does it really matter if his character literally achieves nothing and just pines for the protagonist?

That's not a good comparison, that only makes it more obvious how hard Boyega's character was shafted.

 

[leder]

I don't understand why people are ignoring the really good points brought up by posters here on why TLJ was flawed and why JJ/TFA aren't only to blame. Isn't it okay to admit that TLJ wasn't the best way to do things for every character? Even Boyega himself didn't like how Finn was handled in TLJ and it ties into his comments on how POC characters were shunted to the side.



I agree with everything you've been saying in this thread (especially about Finn vs Han in their second movies) and it's a bit disappointing to see people just continue to avoid laying any blame on TLJ.

I thought Finn was the most interesting and fresh-feeling character to come out of The Force Awakens, even though Rey was revealed to be the Jedi, I still thought Finn had many different directions he could go and I enjoyed seeing him fight as hard as he could against Kylo Ren. And then....TLJ happened, dashing any hope as soon as Finn awoke from that coma and was treated the way he was. I can't believe people were actually satisfied with what they got, Boyega certainly wasn't and he's made that pretty obvious. :(

Has Rian Johnson ever commented on why he decided to handle Finn the way he did? I think he's been asked before about why he cut a lot of Finn scenes?

Rian Johnson Tries to Explain Why So Many of Finn's Scenes Were Cut From The Last Jedi

I feel like the above article definitely makes clear that Rian Johnson could have edited things better to give us a more satisfying result. Anyway, I hope Boyega finds success elsewhere, I appreciate him being vocal about these very real problems that Disney needs to improve.

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Good luck. Your feelings towards TLJ became some weird litmus test for if you were a misogynist. The internet can be really dumb.

Personally I hated it and have detailed why in prior posts, but just got exhausted of having bad faith arguments about it over and over.

On topic, agree with Boyega fully, and good for him for saying it.

 

[Crossing Eden]

He was under contract. What did you expect him to openly shit on TROS while Disney executives are standing right behind him holding his career and paycheck in hand?

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No I didn't expect him to do that.

Also, he hasn't really shat on his character in TROS much because Finn wasn't treated as much of a clown in that film. He had zero arc or point to the story, but he got to shoot stuff, do elaborate action scenes, and just generally not act like a clown.

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"He got to shoot stuff" vs. "having a character arc and important role in the story despite being more of a comedic character in comparison to cast of characters that include a clinically depressed jedi master and a person who's just trying to find themselves in general."

He also got to act with the other stars. His experience with TROS is far more pleasant because his character wasn't treated as some ostracized buffoon. TLJ had better characterization and depth for Finn, but that came with having him fall down next to literal horseshit. TROS throws away characterization to let Finn just do cool action shit. It's pretty clear which way he prefers the character to go.

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So it's ok for a character to literally be reduced to having their character reduced to nothing as long as they get to go pew pew? How the hell is that a positive outcome vs. a character people can relate or look up to?

How??? You are definitely criticizing him:

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I'm criticizing the marketing of that film in general. On top of the film itself which actually did shaft as many POC roles as possible when it came to the overall events of the film and their contribution. TBH if the PT and it's wealth of incredibly racist stereotypes didn't exist TROS would be the most problematic SW film by far if only because of the context of its release, and the marketing vs. the cultural zeitgeist pre and post release. On top of the content of the film itself and how characters in what was otherwise, the most progressive trilogy by far, had nearly all of their agency actively and retroactrively taken away.

 

[Joetachi]

I dont know why people waste their time trying to fight with people with disingenuous arguments about this we have moved on from his point about his depiction and people actually showing their ass about the black experience of the movie . But people are out here caping for his supposed characterization because i gotta defend or shit on some dumb Star Wars movie . I can almost tell who is white in this thread.

 

[BarringGaffner]

Disney is having a company meeting led by Kathleen Kennedy tomorrow to respond to this. It'll be interesting how they respond to this internally.

source: friend at Lucasfilm.

 

[Deleted member 511]

I dont know why people waste their time trying to fight with people with disingenuous arguments about this we have moved on from his point about his depiction and people actually showing their ass about the black experience of the movie . But people are out here caping for his supposed characterization because i gotta defend or shit on some dumb Star Wars movie .

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Yeah, it's really strange. John himself thinks the depiction of Finn was bad in TLJ and that should speak for itself. People are ignoring that to defend a movie for some reason though.

 

[BossAttack]

So it's ok for a character to literally be reduced to having their character reduced to nothing as long as they get to go pew pew? How the hell is that a positive outcome vs. a character people can relate or look up to?

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Indiana Jones is a jacket and a rope and people grow up wanting to become archaeologists because of the character despite there being nothing to him.

No one wants to be Jimmy Olsen when they can be Superman. It doesn't matter how much depth you give Jimmy Olsen, how much character work you give the character, he's still Jimmy Olsen. Meanwhile, Superman is fucking Superman.

You can inject all the character drama you want into Finn, if he's still a buffoon ain't no one want to be him. Meanwhile, you got people drooling over the Mandalorian despite the character having a very paper-thin characterization because he looks cool and does cool shit.

You really asking why kids aren't thrilled about Finn?

 

[TalonJH]

I vividly remember this character poster and thought he was going to be more central than what he ended up being. I was okay with him not being a Jedi by the end of TFA, but I definitely thought they would do more with his "former stormtrooper" storyline (the former stormtroopers in TROS was definitely not enough).

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Seeing this picture and all of the Finn wearing a lightsaber posters and footage made me more hyped for the new Star Wars movies than ever before. As soon as he gets knocked out in the final battle I got a little sad that he lost the saber but surely I said they would continue his journey to become a Jedi in VIII and IX.

I'm still so disappointed over what they did to him and consider it a huge reason for my bittersweet feelings towards TLJ and TROS.

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Seeing these marketing materials actually hurts. I was so into this but it was all for nothing. I say this as someone that doesn't hate the new trilo.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Indiana Jones is a jacket and a rope and people grow up wanting to become archaeologists because of the character despite there being nothing to him.

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SW has always had deeper characterization and overall, more relatable characters than Indiana Jones.

No one wants to be Jimmy Olsen when they can be Superman. It doesn't matter how much depth you give Jimmy Olsen, how much character work you give the character, he's still Jimmy Olsen. Meanwhile, Superman is fucking Superman.

You can inject all the character drama you want into Finn, if he's still a buffoon ain't no one want to be him. Meanwhile, you got people drooling over the Mandalorian despite the character having a very paper-thin characterization because he looks cool and does cool shit.

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Literally the most criticized episodes of that show were the ones where he received as little characterization and development as possible.

You really asking why kids aren't thrilled about Finn?

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In TROS, no, that much is obvious. However, kids and adults alike absolutely were, at least from my anecdotes watching the film with my family as each release was an event for us, thrilled about him when those first two movies came out. Hell tbh they even liked him in TROS while I outright hated his characterization and disliked the movie in general.

 

[BossAttack]

SW has always had deeper characterization and overall, more relatable characters than Indiana Jones.

Literally the most criticized episodes of that show were the ones where he received as little characterization and development as possible.

In TROS, no, that much is obvious. However, kids and adults alike absolutely were, at least from my anecdotes watching the film with younger family, thrilled about him when those first two movies came out. Hell tbh they even liked him in TROS while I outright hated his characterization.

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Han Solo stopped being a character after ESB, which is why he has nothing to do in ROTJ. The same goes for Leia and Lando, they are hardly "deep" characters. Yet, everyone wants to be them.

No one cares about Jimmy Olsen. No one. NO ONE.

Anecdotally, I've never heard a single black kid or adult say, "man, Finn was so cool in TLJ." In fact, I've never seen hype for the character outside of pre-TFA.

 

[The Silver]

I can see the perspective that despite TROS being worse than Satan that Finn was treated with more "respect" in regards to him being connected with all the other important characters and interacting with the main plot. There wasn't really any "b-plot" with the characters being separated from each other, it was all one long breakneck fetch quest. Finn wasn't separated the entire time from Rey and Poe who he had great chemistry with in TFA while they got to do more "important things" and hung around Skywalker characters.

The Rey and Kylo stuff in TLJ just so thoroughly eclipsed everything else in the movie. TROS is like being resigned to your fate, yeah the writing is utter dogshit but at least I'm here besides all the main characters I enjoy being around and having fun shooting stuff instead of being treated like a failure the whole time.

Finn should have, could have had the potential to be a near Black Panther level character, that's what many people felt his potential was when coming off of TFA, didn't turn out that way.........

 

[olag]

You know , I love all 3 matrix movies. I can pretty much go scene to scene and explain what the intent and themes were and explain how it works all together.

You know why I don't talk about this everytime someone says the matrix sequals where bad? It's because I'm perfectly capable of accepting that yes even though everything thematically fit, sometimes there can be flaws which bring down the expirience for other people, sometimes themes don't have the intended impact on everyone and yes, whilst I find the theme fascinating, it may not have been the best theme to explore or it may not have been explored in the most captivating way.

Unfortunately this seems lost to a lot of fanbases now days.

OT: I absolutely agree with Boyega as usual.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Han Solo stopped being a character after ESB

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Which sucks.

The same goes for Leia and Lando, they are hardly "deep" characters. Yet, everyone wants to be them.

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You hear less about Lando than Finn when it comes to the modern perception of SW and Lando's been in more films...

No one cares about Jimmy Olsen. No one. NO ONE.

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He ain't a SW character.

Anecdotally, I've never heard a single black kid or adult say, "man, Finn was so cool in TLJ." In fact, I've never seen hype for the character outside of pre-TFA.

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Well we all hang around like minded people.

I can see the perspective that despite TROS being worse than Satan that Finn was treated with more "respect" in regards to him being connected with all the other important characters and interacting with the main plot. There wasn't really any "b-plot" with the characters being separated from each other, it was all one long breakneck fetch quest. Finn wasn't separated the entire time from Rey and Poe who he had great chemistry with in TFA while they got to do more "important things" and hung around Skywalker characters.

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The middle film in every trilogy always splits the characters up to focus on developing them. Finn, Poe, and Rey were are split up until the very very end of the film.

 

[Nepenthe]

A reminder that this is not about an article for relitigating old feelings about the new Star Wars trilogy, but rather about the more important subject of racial tokenism within Disney blockbusters, specifically regarding Boyega's experiences and thoughts.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

Disney is having a company meeting led by Kathleen Kennedy tomorrow to respond to this. It'll be interesting how they respond to this internally.

source: friend at Lucasfilm.

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I'm gonna blindly believe you on this one, and hope for the best! lol

Hopefully there's more prevention in the future. Get some more black writers and directors on board. Two birds with one stone!

 

[Joetachi]

You really asking why kids aren't thrilled about Finn?

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You should have asked [B]Crossing Eden[/B] the right question do you think black kids are thrilled about Finn with how fast he was dropped for BlackPanther that people dont even remember him. Here is the thing for posters like Crossing its 2020 we are tired just being happy that "representation " just means that you are in the movie you should be happy.

 

[Z-Beat]

Guy comes here with "actually...", ignoring Boyega's own words about the subject. Give me a break trying to make a victim out of what happened. Because that's what is ridiculous.

Half of the thread is people whitesplaining Boyega with "no, you see, your best arc was..."

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Yep.

 

[Deleted member 21339]

Disney is having a company meeting led by Kathleen Kennedy tomorrow to respond to this. It'll be interesting how they respond to this internally.

source: friend at Lucasfilm.

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lol ok

 

[Shy]

I'm gonna blindly believe you on this one, and hope for the best! lol

Hopefully there's more prevention in the future. Get some more black writers and directors on board. Two birds with one stone!

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I have a preview of tomorrow's statement.

Spoiler

It'll be nothing but platitudes, and nothing will come of it

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

I have a preview of tomorrow's statement.

Spoiler

It'll be nothing but platitudes, and nothing will come of it

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Shy, please stop.

Let me have this one dream ):

 

[Musubi]

One of the things that infuriated me the most about the new trilogy is how Finn was treated. The first movie was decent setup for him and then TLJ just absolutely fucking ruined him.

 

[Shy]

Shy, please stop.

Let me have this one dream ):

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😜

 

[Uncle Squingis]

OMG. I'm not even gonna entertain this. She figures out the blaster in three seconds. And she pulls moves on the Falcon no one's seen before after 3 minutes. And then she wrecks the trained Dark Sider her first time holding a saber.

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You're clearly overlooking Rey's major flaw: that she's too flawless.

 

[Sketchsanchez]

You know , I love all 3 matrix movies. I can pretty much go scene to scene and explain what the intent and themes were and explain how it works all together.

You know why I don't talk about this everytime someone says the matrix sequals where bad? It's because I'm perfectly capable of accepting that yes even though everything thematically fit, sometimes there can be flaws which bring down the expirience for other people, sometimes themes don't have the intended impact on everyone and yes, whilst I find the theme fascinating, it may not have been the best theme to explore or it may not have been explored in the most captivating way.

Unfortunately this seems lost to a lot of fanbases now days.

OT: I absolutely agree with Boyega as usual.

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This is a great post, well said.

 

[BossAttack]

Which sucks.

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Yeah, doesn't change the fact that none of those characters are deep yet beloved with intense devotion.

You hear less about Lando than Finn when it comes to the modern perception of SW and Lando's been in more films...

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People care WAY more about Lando than Finn. People came away from Solo wanting more Lando, not more Han Solo. No one cares about Finn these days.

 

[Fj0823]

You're clearly overlooking Rey's major flaw: that she's too flawless.

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The only time Rey is not a flawless compound of callbacks to better written characters is in TLJ. She's an actual character in that movie.

But Finn's character was further mishandled as a result.

And OT: it's so sad, Finn could've been what Chadwick became. A hero for black kids, unfortunately I know exactly zero black kids or young adults in my circle that give a shit about Finn. It's T'Challa all day every day for them.

As a Latino, lmao at thinking we give a shit about Poe SPECIALLY after they made him a carjacking drug dealer

 

[Tarot Deck]

HIs character in SW was one of the most interesting in ep VII... welp we all know what happened in ep VIII and IX.

 

[BarringGaffner]

I'm gonna blindly believe you on this one, and hope for the best! lol

Hopefully there's more prevention in the future. Get some more black writers and directors on board. Two birds with one stone!

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lol ok

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I'll post again tomorrow with what happened.

FYI I have like 50 friends at ILM. Not sure why I would make that up.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

You know , I love all 3 matrix movies. I can pretty much go scene to scene and explain what the intent and themes were and explain how it works all together.

You know why I don't talk about this everytime someone says the matrix sequals where bad? It's because I'm perfectly capable of accepting that yes even though everything thematically fit, sometimes there can be flaws which bring down the expirience for other people, sometimes themes don't have the intended impact on everyone and yes, whilst I find the theme fascinating, it may not have been the best theme to explore or it may not have been explored in the most captivating way.

Unfortunately this seems lost to a lot of fanbases now days.

OT: I absolutely agree with Boyega as usual.

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I mean, I love the fuck out of Shenmue but I'll be the first to expound at length the many ways in which its ambition vastly exceeds its reach. So, I hear you.

I just don't get this instinct some people have to dig in their heels across the board.

 

[Titik]

Let's ask Hayden Christianson.

 

[Titik]

I'll post again tomorrow with what happened.

FYI I have like 50 friends at ILM. Not sure why I would make that up.

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If you live in LA, you will know somone who works in the veriois entertainment industry.

Hell I know someone who works directly with Lady Gaga etc.

 

[Fj0823]

I'll post again tomorrow with what happened.

FYI I have like 50 friends at ILM. Not sure why I would make that up.

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I have zero reason to not believe you, what you're describing is the obvious response to such a gigantic grill on diversity from your biggest star that also happened to be a BLM figure this year.

But your post kinda unintentionally reads like "My uncle at Nintendo" lol

 

[Titik]

I have zero reason to not believe you, what you're describing is the obvious response to such a gigantic grill on diversity from your biggest star that also happened to be a BLM figure this year.

But your post kinda unintentionally reads like "My uncle at Nintendo"

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It's a message board. Everyone has an uncle that works for nintendo.

Also 12 inch inch penoses.

 

[Sacul64]

They did him dirty in both the Last Jedi and the RoS. Look at how excited the dude was at the start compared to now.

John Boyega reaction to Force Awakens Trailer (side by side)

Watch The Force Awaken's John Boyega reaction to the new Star Wars Trailer!

www.youtube.com

Literally take him from Hero to being cowards that would rather pair the white woman with a Nazi then a black man.

 

[Scottoest]

You're clearly overlooking Rey's major flaw: that she's too flawless.

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In the first movie I think she absolutely was - she flies the Falcon like a pro, and then wins a duel with a trained Force wielder. It was a non issue afterward.

I think Finn, Rose et al were more the victims of the new Star Wars trilogy seeming to have absolutely no greater plan, which might be on Kathleen Kennedy, since she's the Feige-analogue for Star Wars at Disney.

Force Awakens largely repackages the events of A New Hope with a sprinkling of Empire thrown in, and sets up some future threads - a fine Star Wars movie. Then The Last Jedi largely burns those plot threads to ash in favour of a bizarre deconstruction of the franchise in the middle of a trilogy. Then because the reaction to that split the fanbase so aggressively, Disney backpedals, brings JJ back in, and tries to frantically give people what they think they want. Hey look, Lando! Palpy is back! And Rey is important after all!

Through this torrent of narrative uncertainty, Rey and Kylo are really the only two characters who retain any focus by the writers, and literally everyone else just blows around in the wind. Finn's character arc in TLJ is virtually the same arc he has in Force Awakens, which was the first blinking red alert that they officially had no idea what to do with him any more.

Finn not being a Jedi was fine - the poster was a narrative fake-out, neato. But there was a lot more you could do with that character in the hands of a competent steward with an actual vision for where things were going.

 

[Zocano]

They did him dirty in both the Last Jedi and the RoS. Look at how excited the dude was at the start compared to now.

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Man that pop off at the end put a fucking smile on my face. What a damn shame. Finn deserved better. Boyega deserved better.

 

[olag]

I mean, I love the fuck out of Shenmue but I'll be the first to expound at length the many ways in which its ambition vastly exceeds its reach. So, I hear you.

I just don't get this instinct some people have to dig in their heels across the board.

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It sucks cause I feel like there genuinely is a lot of discussion that can be had around Finn and his motivations but you cant because it comes close to criticising your favourite director. Yes discussions surrounding TLJ have soured me on star wars in general but that doesn't mean I think JJ did things better or competently in regards to TROS.

I would really love to go into;

• Why the fuck was he written to be borderline obsessed with Rey in all 3 movies?
• Why is the fact that the former child solder choosing not to care about the war is considered selfish?
• Why is his character development the equivalent of someone slapping his wrist and telling him he is bad and he needs to care about people he now has a connection with because of one day surrounded by Casinos does that apparently?
• Why is the only black character the equivalent of comic relief in all 3 movies?
• Did Finn actually have to care about the resistance or could he have been more focused on helping his stormtrooper brothers and sisters? (I bring this up because the mandalorian, Han Solo and Lando show that motivations can be different and outside the status quo)
• Would that have made a more captivating arc for Finn because its directly tied to his upbringing?
• Why did Finn not resonate with a lot of black people or as much as he did after TFA?(Yes this happened, you have to accept this no matter how uncomfortable it makes you)
• Why did people not enjoy Canto Blight?
• Was there a better way to have his character development without that section?
• Why would it have been wrong for the Finn to be force sensitive from the get go?

And most importantly;

• Could Finn have been written better?

And I think the above is what Boyega is trying to highlight and the fact that people are more focused on defending whats there as opposed to actually considering that there may have been another way is incredibly frustrating.

 

[¡ B 0 0 P !]

SW has always had deeper characterization and overall, more relatable characters than Indiana Jones.

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Were you not around during the prequel trilogy? Qui Gon Jin, Jar-Jar, Mace WIndu, Darth Maul, etc. weren't exactly filled with great characterization or complex emotions.

 

[BarringGaffner]

I have zero reason to not believe you, what you're describing is the obvious response to such a gigantic grill on diversity from your biggest star that also happened to be a BLM figure this year.

But your post kinda unintentionally reads like "My uncle at Nintendo" lol

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lol Fair enough, though in this case I am the uncle at Nintendo.

If you live in LA, you will know somone who works in the veriois entertainment industry.

Hell I know someone who works directly with Lady Gaga etc.

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To clarify, I have worked in film for nearly 20 years.

Anyways, I will post more tomorrow if I hear it. Disney have actually made a big deal about diversity in their work culture over the past few years internally. They have an entire team dedicated to doing things like unconscious bias training. Apparently Boyega's comments came as quite a shock. I would imagine that it won't just be Kennedy responding.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Were you not around during the prequel trilogy? Qui Gon Jin, Jar-Jar, Mace WIndu, Darth Maul, etc. weren't exactly filled with great characterization or complex emotions.

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EDIT:

Minus that one time they made a trilogy with a debut film that literally didn't have a main character or any character arcs.

 

[Halbrand]

Most of the problems with Finn or things that can be seen as problems can be attributed to JJ, the one guy John's defending, rather than Disney or Rian. And I love JJ still. But the janitor thing, just caring about Rey, showing him as a normal guy after being indoctrinated by the FO his whole life, leaving him in a coma at the end of the movie, his whole lack of a real arc in TROS, throwing him a bone with Force sensitivity only at the very end. That was all JJ. He also complains about sidelining Rose and then says don't hate on my guy JJ...when that was JJ and Terrio's choice.

 

[Zocano]

Also, he hasn't really shat on his character in TROS much because Finn wasn't treated as much of a clown in that film. He had zero arc or point to the story, but he got to shoot stuff, do elaborate action scenes, and just generally not act like a clown. He also got to act with the other stars. His experience with TROS is far more pleasant because his character wasn't treated as some ostracized buffoon. TLJ had better characterization and depth for Finn, but that came with having him fall down next to literal horseshit. TROS throws away characterization to let Finn just do cool action shit. It's pretty clear which way he prefers the character to go.

No one wants to be the clown character, even if they have a great "arc." They want to be Han Solo. And that's what Boyega is getting at, Finn can be as "deep" as Rian and others want to write him, but when he's ultimately still a clown, who cares? Black kids don't want to look up to an idiot.

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You are absolutely on point and right here. I'm just a white dude who has had media pander and be available to me at all times so I don't know what it's like to be starved and see something blessed and unique appear and aspire to. But that video a few posts back of Boyega and his pals watching that Force Awakens trailer and poppin off when Finn pulls the lightsaber and the excitement and joy they feel gives me an ounce, a tiny fraction, of insight into what it's like to see a hero and role model like yourself and be triumphant. The hope and power of a black jedi was robbed from people.

 

[darz1]

I can see the perspective that despite TROS being worse than Satan that Finn was treated with more "respect" in regards to him being connected with all the other important characters and interacting with the main plot. There wasn't really any "b-plot" with the characters being separated from each other, it was all one long breakneck fetch quest. Finn wasn't separated the entire time from Rey and Poe who he had great chemistry with in TFA while they got to do more "important things" and hung around Skywalker characters.

The Rey and Kylo stuff in TLJ just so thoroughly eclipsed everything else in the movie. TROS is like being resigned to your fate, yeah the writing is utter dogshit but at least I'm here besides all the main characters I enjoy being around and having fun shooting stuff instead of being treated like a failure the whole time.

Finn should have, could have had the potential to be a near Black Panther level character, that's what many people felt his potential was when coming off of TFA, didn't turn out that way.........

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Exactly. This is the part people don't get. He could have been up there with T'Challa in terms of cultural significance. Instead he was just there.

 

[Laughing Banana]

They probably do not touch on the whole "Finn is a reformed stormtrooper" plot because of how similar the whole 'brainwashing and rebel' feels to the CCP.

In fact, considering the whole poster thing, scratch that "probably" thing and make it "most probably" or even "most definitively." I can image a script where Finn deals with that stuff getting "Oh no, don't do it like this!" by some executive because they are afraid it wouldn't jive well with China.

 

[CommodoreKong]

Battle of Crait wouldn't have happened without Finn involvement.

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Only because the villains were written that they were so incompetent that they needed to be told to run a decloacking scan which easily detected the cloaked ships.

 

[CommodoreKong]

Yep. Irrelevant. The context of the ending, however, is relevant.

We were very clearly going to see Rey's training, which is literally where the first film ended.

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They still could of done a time skip and shown us Rey's training. Full, proper Jedi training takes years after all, they could have done a time skip and still had Rey training with Luke at the beginning of the Last Jedi.

 

[Halbrand]

edit: too off topic

 

[I Am Captain America]

Disney is having a company meeting led by Kathleen Kennedy tomorrow to respond to this. It'll be interesting how they respond to this internally.

source: friend at Lucasfilm.

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He's telling the truth. barring has worked on other films if I recall correctly

 

[CommodoreKong]

Luke didn't have much training from Yoda in Empire and then he leaves and comes back a year later and doesn't get any more training.

And this idea just doesn't fit with the story that Rian wanted to tell. It's a totally different story.

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Of course it didn't fit with the story Rian wanted to tell, I was just saying you can't use the excuse of people expected to see Rey training with Luke for the lack of time skip in Episode 8 since you can make Jedi training any length of time.