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‘Lawsuit filed in France against EA arguing that FIFA Ultimate Team should be classified as a form of gambling’ [getfootballnewsfrance.com]

Redcrayon

Redcrayon

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Two Parisian lawyers, Karim Morand-Lahouazi and Victor Zagury, are taking on the gaming giant, in an effort to highlight the risks attached for players of FIFA Ultimate Team.

This game mode has been part of FIFA since their 2009 version, and in France alone makes EA hundreds of thousands of Euros a year. The legal duo are arguing that in order to win in this game mode, you have to pay and gamble, spending money on FIFA card packs that could include any player available in the game.

Zagury explains further: "In this game, everyone wants to have a dream team to go as far as possible. My client spent €600 in five months without ever getting a big player. The developers of this game mode have created an illusionary and particularly addictive system. The more you pay, the more you have the possibility of getting big players. We believe that a gambling game has been integrated into this video game because buying packs is nothing more than a bet. It is the logic of a casino that has entered their homes.Today, an 11 or 12-year-old teenager can, without any restriction, play FUT and commit money because there is no parental control system in this mode. Belgium and the Netherlands have already taken up this issue."

By filing this suit, the two lawyers are hoping to be able to gain insight into "the algorithm which generates the distribution of player cards in packs."
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Source:

Original source (French)


Guardian comment piece on the story:

These card packs, along with several other paid-for "loot boxes" (randomly assigned in-game benefits) are banned in the Netherlands and Belgium already, and if this ruling goes against EA in France, it could lead to an EU-wide ban. It's something that has EA worried, seeing as 20%, or £850m, of EA's net revenue came from selling Ultimate Team packs in 2018. It's big business. In this case it has impacted a 32-year-old, but as many horror stories from parents will tell you, it has also affected young, impressionable children who don't see in-game purchases as spending "real" money and put their parents into huge, spiralling debt.
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I saw the Guardian piece and thought it was interesting, given the size of the French market compared to Belgium and the Netherlands, where various lootboxes etc are already banned. An EU-wide ban on the mechanics could follow this ruling if (and I realise that's a big if) it goes against EA, which could have large knock-on consequences on including lootboxes in games releasing in western markets first place, rather than just removing them for one or two countries.
 
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Xater

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Seeing EA and therefor this industry lose this battle would be amazing.

Imagine EA having to innovate other games modes again that aren't FUT.
 
piratethingy

piratethingy

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It's not gambling, it's just an intentionally misleading and addicting system of random chance rewards based on real money risks.

o wait
 
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Redcrayon

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A ban in France, perhaps leading to fears of an (or even an actual) EU-wide ban, would definitely influence game design more than just needing to take them out for Belgium and the Netherlands. Fingers crossed, I'd love to see this sort of gambling aimed at kids shut down.
 
mutantmagnet

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EA could try using it's only surprise mechanics defense but that don't work out.

Even if they finally get properly regulated they will continue to make a lot of money. Gambling isn't outlawed but restricted. I hope EA can settle with that reality.
 
Xater

Xater

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mutantmagnet said:
EA could try using it's only surprise mechanics defense but that don't work out.

Even if they finally get properly regulated they will continue to make a lot of money. Gambling isn't outlawed but restricted. I hope EA can settle with that reality.
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That would then probably mena they would have to rate their sports titles as only for adults. That's not gonna happen.
 
beansontoast

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I remember in school how much people were losing on ultimate team for fifa 12,13,14 etc. And although I haven't played a fifa properly for a few years, I imagine its probably only gotten worse. Its an absolute disgrace that they knowingly target and attract literal children for this exploitative income
 

Skulldead

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Great news, this need to happen with 2k games too. Just destroy them all, i have no pity for that kind of stuff.
 
Cookie

Cookie

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This needs to be successful. Ultimate Team is fucking toxic now with how much you can potentially spend. It's ludicrous. Hopefully this leads to an EU wide ban and the removal of this shit from all video games as a result.
 
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Redcrayon

Redcrayon

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mutantmagnet said:
Obviously to protect their Fifa license they'll demarcate Fifa ultimate into an expansion pack so the main game wouldn't have to get that rating.
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I think that's likely if the case is successful. It would also need to be rated and sold specifically only to adults at that point, and would also fall under the oversight of wider gambling review bodies. Rather than the games industry ones that have proven to have no interest in the consumer and only exist as a PR arm defending the business interests of large publishers.
 
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beansontoast

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This is slightly wishful thinking given that fifa (the governing body) are hardly the most scrupulous, but even if these challenges to ultimate team as gambling fail it could still be a success. If theres enough negative PR about it, Fifa's sponsors (which include kid targeting stuff like coke and mcdonalds) might put pressure on them to stop having their name associated with the negative PR (i.e. potentially reviewing their licence with EA).
 
Delusibeta

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Ultimately, the punchline of EA trying to shove lootboxes into Battlefront 2 was always going to be their golden goose that is Ultimate Team getting (threatened to be) banned.
 
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Redcrayon

Redcrayon

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beansontoast said:
This is slightly wishful thinking given that fifa (the governing body) are hardly the most scrupulous, but even if these challenges to ultimate team as gambling fail it could still be a success. If theres enough negative PR about it, Fifa's sponsors (which include kid targeting stuff like coke and mcdonalds) might put pressure on them to stop having their name associated with the negative PR (i.e. potentially reviewing their licence with EA).
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Absolutely, there are potential wider knock-on effects due to the size of the French market for EA, and potential greater influence of the result with FIFA and the EU as a whole. It's also a snowball effect- perhaps other lawyers in other EU countries may also file cases based on hypothetical success in France, forcing yet another ruling.
 
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ty_hot

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I play PES since December and I already have a team with Neymar, de Bruyne and many other players that are amongst the best in the world. Didnt spend a cent in mtx and in the game itaelf (Lite version is free). My friend has Fifa since launch and the only renowned player he has is Neymar. Clearly Fifa makes it extra difficult to get high rated players than the competition.

For EA alone it is almost a billion dollar "industry", and they have absolute no expenses on it, it just pours money into their pockets. I hope they find ways of creating "season pass" for sports games so that we can get rid of packs...
 
Lyrick

Lyrick

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EloquentM said:
It was always argued in bad faith. I have no idea why its defense force exists. Trolls?
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Because not everyone believes in the need for a Nanny State. Protecting people from the choice of engaging in luxury activities and purchases seems more like a limit on freedoms and not a protection.

But whatever, call everyone that believes in personal freedoms a troll and report them for wrongthink...
 
Duxxy3

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The amount of damage this would do to EA is immense. But, IMO, it's something they need to prepare for.
 
Sheepinator

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How does an 11-year old spend hundreds of euros without parental permission? On PS4 at least, not sure about other platforms, child accounts can't even add funds to wallet. And if the child has a regular adult account, and they also have a credit card or PayPal attached, that's typically with the parents consent.
 
rocket

rocket

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EA made literally billions from this mechanic alone so the odds of it happening without being defended/lobbied to death is practically zero.

Having said that, I would LOVE to see some outlet trying to get a statement from @TheESA, again, just to see them obviously defending the very practice of this particular ESA member, that ironically, also ditch their own fucking trade show.
 

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I've waited for this day, and I am very curious where it goes. After Nintendo however managed to succesfully defend their right to not allow refunds on preorders, I am nervous that this won't go anywhere too.
 
EloquentM

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chrisPjelly said:
Probably "Free market" tryhard suits
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Lyrick said:
Because not everyone believes in the need for a Nanny State. Protecting people from the choice of engaging in luxury activities and purchases seems more like a limit on freedoms and not a protection.

But whatever, call everyone that believes in personal freedoms a troll and report them for wrongthink...
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This seems to be where the argument has gone recently on a lot of this forum— pushback between leftist and center left (who favor capitalism, marked by low to no state involvement ). I was more so speaking on the snarky post I first commented on though.

Originally when all this was first starting the argument wasn't about the market, it was about introducing kids to gambling, and people twisting their reality to state otherwise. It seems the conversation has become multifaceted now.
 
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Redcrayon

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Sheepinator said:
How does an 11-year old spend hundreds of euros without parental permission? On PS4 at least, not sure about other platforms, child accounts can't even add funds to wallet. And if the child has a regular adult account, and they also have a credit card or PayPal attached, that's typically with the parents consent.
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Not sure about that- the lawyers claim lack of parental controls but I don't know which version this is.

I think that's more an incidental point to widen concern, when their client is a 32-year-old talking about addiction, and so that aspect is likely to be the crux of it in this case:
32-year-old chauffeur Mamadou talked to L'Équipe about his FUT addiction: "You quickly become addicted to this game… whenever I buy a pack, I tell myself that this is the last time, but I always do it again. You get so frustrated when you don't get good enough players that you buy again and again."
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MrChillaxx

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Lyrick said:
Because not everyone believes in the need for a Nanny State. Protecting people from the choice of engaging in luxury activities and purchases seems more like a limit on freedoms and not a protection.

But whatever, call everyone that believes in personal freedoms a troll and report them for wrongthink...
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Yeah fuck kids and people with addictions. Fuck the weak, who cares about protecting them?
 
Violence Jack

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Lyrick said:
Because not everyone believes in the need for a Nanny State. Protecting people from the choice of engaging in luxury activities and purchases seems more like a limit on freedoms and not a protection.

But whatever, call everyone that believes in personal freedoms a troll and report them for wrongthink...
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Gambling addiction is a thing, and kids shouldn't be subjected to video games with predatory gambling practices either.
 
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