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‘Gone with the Wind’ removed from HBO Max after outcry (Update: returning later w/ historical context given and denounced racism)

BAD

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Oct 25, 2017
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www.hollywoodreporter.com

HBO Max Removes Civil War Epic ‘Gone With the Wind’

'Gone With the Wind,' the multiple Academy Award-winning Civil War epic considered a classic of American cinema, has been pulled from HBO Max as media companies reappraise content in light of nationwide anti-racism protests.
www.hollywoodreporter.com www.hollywoodreporter.com
Gone With the Wind, the Civil War epic considered a classic of American cinema, has been pulled from HBO Max.

The move comes as media companies reappraise content in light of nationwide protests over police brutality and systemic racism after the death of George Floyd, a Black man killed by Minnesota police. Earlier on Tuesday, Paramount Network cancelled the long-running police reality show Cops.

Released in 1939, Gone With the Wind told the story of southern aristocrats Scarlett O'Hara and Rhett Butler and starred Vivienne Leigh, Clark Gable, Hattie McDaniel and Olivia de Havilland. The film, based on the 1936 best-selling book by Margaret Mitchell, takes place in the American South, on a plantation outside Atlanta in the aftermath of the Civil War. Directed by Victor Fleming it would win eight Oscars at the 12th Academy Awards, including Best Picture, Best Director, Best Adapted Screenplay, Best Actress and Best Supporting Actress for McDaniel.
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This was the first movie a black woman won an Oscar for, but it's also racist itself. Is this a fair approach, or should Warner have applied labels similar to the ones they added to cartoons?

warner-bros-disclaimer1.jpg


Edit: will return with more context
 
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higemaru

higemaru

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Nov 30, 2017
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Release it to the public domain. It's of historical importance even if it's a bloated movie that few people in 2020 would actually want to watch.
 
Volimar

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
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Oct 25, 2017
38,981
Frankly my dear, removing it is probably a good move though I expect it to be quietly re-added later or pop up somewhere else.
 
Mekanos

Mekanos

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Oct 17, 2018
44,381
Yeah I think public domain is probably the best way. Don't let anybody profit off of it. It has a place in film canon and history like Birth Of A Nation but it's ultimately a bunch of confederate apologia.
 
boontobias

boontobias

Avenger
Apr 14, 2018
9,598
If you think a film isnt suitable for today's climate and audiences, then make it public domain and wash your hands of it
 
adj_noun

adj_noun

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
17,406
higemaru said:
Release it to the public domain. It's of historical importance even if it's a bloated movie that few people in 2020 would actually want to watch.
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Well it's got to be public domain soon, after all all movies made before...

let's check...

We're only up to 1923?!?

The Mouse is never going to let it get to 1928/Steamboat Willie. Yeesh.
 
SteveWinwood

SteveWinwood

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Oct 25, 2017
18,726
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I'm not sure why it's on HBO Max at all though? Who would want to watch it on there? Are they that short on content they're just pulling everything they own out of the vault? I wish Filmstruck hadn't died.

It not being on HBO Max doesn't seem to be a big deal. The movie isn't going anywhere, people can find it if they want to. It's an important part of cinema history for better or worse.
 
EatChildren

EatChildren

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Oct 27, 2017
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Public domain. Even the most volatile creative works are insight into the times they were made, as is the nature of all art, and so erasure is not the best course of action. Refraining from profiteering of the content is though, and is more ethical. So the license holder pushing into public domain is a sufficient solution.
 
OP
OP

BAD

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Oct 25, 2017
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higemaru said:
Release it to the public domain. It's of historical importance even if it's a bloated movie that few people in 2020 would actually want to watch.
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Volimar said:
Frankly my dear, removing it is probably a good move though I expect it to be quietly re-added later or pop up somewhere else.
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Mekanos said:
Yeah I think public domain is probably the best way. Don't let anybody profit off of it. It has a place in film canon and history like Birth Of A Nation but it's ultimately a bunch of confederate apologia.
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Has magic powers said:
If you think a film isnt suitable for today's climate and audiences, then make it public domain and wash your hands of it
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Not sure of the rules for older films, but studios often don't have that level of power as they have royalty deals and ownership only over certain parts of a work. Like a show that Warner themselves owns for example typically still has to be paid for and licensed even for Warner to put it on their streaming service, because there are royalty legalities requiring proper revenue direction to the other owners or creators.

So it may be more complicated to public domain it, but idk maybe they had more total ownership of old films?
 
Draconian

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Oct 25, 2017
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SteveWinwood said:
I'm not sure why it's on HBO Max at all though? Who would want to watch it on there? Are they that short on content they're just pulling everything they own out of the vault?

It not being on HBO Max doesn't seem to be a big deal. The movie isn't going anywhere, people can find it if they want to. It's an important part of cinema history for better or worse.
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TCM has its own collection and honestly is one of the best things Max has going for it so far.
 
Powdered Egg

Powdered Egg

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
17,070
I remember being the only Black kid in class when my teacher had us watch this. Bout four kids kept calling me a slave so I put them on the list. I sent 3 out of 4 to the nurse's office eventually lmao.
 
Khezu

Khezu

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Oct 25, 2017
1,950
It's weird to think about, but this movie has been so ingrained into pop culture and I feel like I have known about it my entire life, yet I know absolutely nothing about it outside of that one line.
 
julian

julian

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Oct 27, 2017
16,874
We had the dual-VHS of these at home growing up and yet not once do I recall anybody ever even suggesting watching it or even expressing an opinion about it. It was just there.
 
ViewtifulJC

ViewtifulJC

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Oct 25, 2017
21,020
Gone with the Wind is one of the all time greats, and it's so much more about big sweeping melodrama with one of the all-time greatest Best Actress winning performances than being some kind of confederate fantasy. The vast majority of people complaining about it haven't even watched the damn thing.
 
Tagg

Tagg

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Oct 25, 2017
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Ridiculous. It was a product of its time and should be treated as such. I don't think the content was so bad that it deserves to be permanently locked away.
 
OP
OP

BAD

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Oct 25, 2017
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SteveWinwood said:
You think great grandma is cruising hbo max to remember her childhood?

Actual classics are probably on there, people should watch those instead.
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No offense but many people prefer more comprehensive streaming catalogs and this movie is one of the most awarded and acclaimed, even on recent movie lists. I've never seen it mind you...
 
Meows

Meows

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Oct 28, 2017
6,399
Gone with the Wind is a complicated movie, basically revived the Daughters of the Confederacy and the Southern cause, and had horrible treatment of Black characters. I understand their decision by this. I think Hattie McDaniel's performance as the first Black woman to win an Oscar is important and her performance is, indeed, great though it lead to an increase of unfortunate stereotypes.




A damn shame they wouldn't even let her sit with the white people there.
 
Heromanz

Heromanz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,202
ViewtifulJC said:
Gone with the Wind is one of the all time greats, and it's so much more about big sweeping melodrama with one of the all-time greatest Best Actress winning performances than being some kind of confederate fantasy. The vast majority of people complaining about it haven't even watched the damn thing.
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Huh ,Gone with the wind totally is a confederate fantasy
 
DSN2K

DSN2K

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Oct 25, 2017
4,275
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I find that incredibly silly to be honest. Label it correctly. explain what it is and what was wrong in it. Isnt that how you educate people ? Not by hiding things away.
 
jph139

jph139

One Winged Slayer
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Oct 25, 2017
14,448
Even if it was in the public domain, people could still profit off of it - companies would still be releasing fancy Blu-rays and streaming services would still profit off having it in their catalogs and so forth. It would actually probably disseminate the film even more, if that's the issue - it would be like Night of the Living Dead, literally available on every streaming platform on the internet.

Context is always, always key, and even if it's not elegant, it's the best way to educate the public.

I've said it before, but I would really like a non-profit organization (maybe a public institution, like PBS or NPR) that takes ownership of "problematic" works, curates them, and makes them widely available alongside educational material about why it's been placed there.
 
Blader

Blader

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Oct 27, 2017
26,674
SteveWinwood said:
You think great grandma is cruising hbo max to remember her childhood?

Actual classics are probably on there, people should watch those instead.
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I mean, Gone with the Wind is like one of the quintessential American classics

I've only seen this movie once, and it was a few years ago, but I was surprised that I actually liked it, certainly way more than I was expecting. The first half is some major Confederate romanticizing and is gross about it from like the very first shot. But I remember liking the second half, I think largely because Scarlett and Rhett's lives go to such hell that it almost felt like some kind of karmic comeuppance for the first half. I don't think that was the film's intention lol but that was my takeaway.

Tbh I'd probably rather prefer they just stick it with the same disclaimer they use for old racist cartoons to put it in its historical context and treat it like the museum piece that it is. Releasing it into the public domain could be a good idea but there are probably legal hurdles around that even if they wanted to.
 
RastaMentality

RastaMentality

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Oct 25, 2017
13,147
ViewtifulJC said:
Gone with the Wind is one of the all time greats, and it's so much more about big sweeping melodrama with one of the all-time greatest Best Actress winning performances than being some kind of confederate fantasy. The vast majority of people complaining about it haven't even watched the damn thing.
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It is a confederate fantasy lol. And it's also overlong and boring.
 
Afrikan

Afrikan

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Oct 28, 2017
17,090
ViewtifulJC said:
Gone with the Wind is one of the all time greats, and it's so much more about big sweeping melodrama with one of the all-time greatest Best Actress winning performances than being some kind of confederate fantasy. The vast majority of people complaining about it haven't even watched the damn thing.
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Well be careful if you're thinking of buying it, if it gets pulled from digital services.

You might get called a Racist for that.
 

Deleted member 32822

Banned
Nov 13, 2017
9,537
I understand this movie is very important to cinematic history, but the thought of watching a four hour film makes me physically ill.
 
wenis

wenis

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Oct 25, 2017
16,147
Getting rid of it is foolish. It's easy to not watch something, but it's even better to educate yourself on film history and appreciate something for what it was. There are bigger fish to fry than a movie on a paid for service.

I'm not even gunna pretend like I enjoyed it in my two viewings (one on my own and another viewing in the context of a film course).
 
ginger ninja

ginger ninja

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,060
Yea this is kind of stupid. I would understand if it was like Birth of a Nation or something. Gone with the wind is hugely problematic but is also an important peice of cinema, even moreso because it conveys the misguided yet deeply held southern belief of why they went to war. It is distorted history that should still be examined but with proper context, such as a warning label in the front.

Also, I have been vocal about my hate for HBO Max on this site but I was really impressed with their turner classic collection. The only thing better is either Criterion and parts of Prime and I would subscribe to Max just for the classics so again, this is a huge bummer.
 
Meows

Meows

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Oct 28, 2017
6,399
"Gone with the Wind" may return to the platform down the road but with an explanation or note attached to it explaining its history and controversies, which is how the movie was presented on the Turner Classic movie channel.
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The Wall Street Journal says it will probably be added back later with a note. I think it is fair to take the movie down right now with what is going on.
 
SteveWinwood

SteveWinwood

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Draconian said:
I'm confused. Are you saying only old people watch old movies?
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no im saying i dont think getting rid of it is going to be missed by 99.99% of people paying for hbo max

im not saying if thats a good or a bad thing mind you, but im not sure whos searching out for gone with the wind on the hottest newest streaming service in 2020. like i said i miss filmstruck. and its clearly still avaliable (and will be for the rest of time) in tons of other ways so its not like its vanishing with this removal

they have a bunch of the criterion collection and tcm stuff on there, people should watch literally any one of those movies instead and it's a way better use of your time

i did not call it out because its old. i called it out for being gone with the wind. i dont think its a movie worth watching unless you really want to see all the best picture winners or something

i didnt even really address the issue at hand, i think you should put a statement out front about its issues. im not a big fan of acting like shitty things never happened in the past. and i get these services have to fill the coffers with whatever they have, i just dont like the movie
BAD said:
No offense but many people prefer more comprehensive streaming catalogs and this movie is one of the most awarded and acclaimed, even on recent movie lists. I've never seen it mind you...
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yes well critics can be wrong you know

i encourage you to see it

and then realize you can never get those 4 hours back
 
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