care to explain why or are you just relying on ad hominems and gotchas. I might throw in an old debit card number for you if you answer.
care to explain why or are you just relying on ad hominems and gotchas. I might throw in an old debit card number for you if you answer.
Yes. They should. The creative process is just as interesting as the final product. Things like that deserve to be out there for enthusiasts.By the same token, writers should release every draft of a book or story or script they've written, including all their notes and outlines, because art is for public consumption, not just the final product, but the entire workflow.
What am I reading here? Everyone arguing that source codes and preliminary/placeholder art etc. should always be for public consumption I don't quite understand your argument.
By the same token, writers should release every draft of a book or story or script they've written, including all their notes and outlines, because art is for public consumption, not just the final product, but the entire workflow. I don't believe it and I don't buy the argument.
I don't have any comment on the legality of the leak and I do enjoy seeing these behind the scenes glimpses at the products we ended up purchasing but I can't get behind the argument that it is some kind of moral duty for hackers to give us this stuff.
Fuck Capitalism.
Is the artist Nintendo Co. Ltd.? If even one person who worked on these games said "yeah, release it" then it belongs to the publicBecause the artist made it. It's theirs. They decide what to do with it and nobody else.
Of course it's interesting but I can't buy into the argument that it "deserves" to be released. I don't see any compelling argument here that anyone "deserves" a look into someone's creative process.Yes. They should. The creative process is just as interesting as the final product. Things like that deserve to be out there for enthusiasts.
The fact that you're not willing to just give out your private info shows you don't actually believe what you said.care to explain why or are you just relying on ad hominems and gotchas. I might throw in an old debit card number for you if you answer.
Not seeing why I should care about emails from 1994 for any reason other than historical curiosity. If you've ever read a letter from a WWII GI, you're doing the same thing.
Uh, do you not grasp or believe in the concept of private property? Property (land, estate, goods, etc) all have the right to remain private and protected as their owners see fit. Hey maybe I should just decide to move into your house and squat there however I see fit. Why won't you share, right?
Won't anyone think of the multi billion dollar corporations!Yes anything produced by a company is free for me to steal because I want to and I'll use bullshit platitudes about private property not existing and everything being free to justify it, even though when it would apply to me I'll just deflect
The source code contains personal communications and notes that can be harmful to the people involved in making it. Many of these people are still alive and working and this kind of intimate view of their work is embarrassing and potentially could be actively harmful to them. While 25+ year old internal emails are not the end of the world it is still an obtrusive breach of privacy. No one wants that released and it being released doesn't really add any value to the conversation while it actively encourages people working now to cover their tracks and delete information in case it was ever to leak.
Oof, never seen someone go this hard on the "PROTECT THE CORPS" train, jeeeeez.
Is the artist Nintendo Co. Ltd.? If even one person who worked on these games said "yeah, release it" then it belongs to the public
You're welcome to stay on my couch for however long you like, I take no issue - I can show you some books and articles on the myth of private property in the interim.
care to explain why or are you just relying on ad hominems and gotchas. I might throw in an old debit card number for you if you answer.
☝What am I reading here? Everyone arguing that source codes and preliminary/placeholder art etc. should always be for public consumption I don't quite understand your argument.
By the same token, writers should release every draft of a book or story or script they've written, including all their notes and outlines, because art is for public consumption, not just the final product, but the entire workflow. I don't believe it and I don't buy the argument.
I don't have any comment on the legality of the leak and I do enjoy seeing these behind the scenes glimpses at the products we ended up purchasing but I can't get behind the argument that it is some kind of moral duty for hackers to give us this stuff.
In as much as they can be. Families that donate their ancestors' things to a museum or collection aren't always doing it with the approval of that ancestor.Most of those letters are released with consent and not stolen though?
Oof, never seen someone go this hard on the "PROTECT THE CORPS" train, jeeeeez.
Ah yes, NINTENDO CO. LTD. A truly sublime artist, one of the best, along with GENERAL ELECTRIC COMPANY, TWENTIETH CENTURY STUDIOS INCORPORATED, and BERTELSMANN SE & CO. KGAAA.Yes it is. As it says on all copyrighted material, it belongs to Nintendo Co. Ltd. as an entity. And only the entity, not individuals within it, is able to make decisions regarding its use.
This is why musicians working on games usually don't have the right to release their music independently, because it doesn't belong to them. (Some do, but it depends on the work contract, and in the vast majority of cases, individuals do not own their work, only the entity does.)
Because your anarchic view on information has little logic to do with the real world nor the fundamental consumption of media. If the world resembled anarchy in any fashion, you might have ground to stand on. Most people are fine with the leak existing but, take issue with that people say we are owed this information. Even in anarchy, people would understand you don't need to know literally every single thing on an ancillary topiccare to explain why or are you just relying on ad hominems and gotchas. I might throw in an old debit card number for you if you answer.
Nintendo owns that art if it was made by somebody employed by them. Nintendo isn't a person (regardless of how corporations are seen by right wing law makers). So what here is really worth kicking rocks over? Some developer might be embarrassed they said something homophobic in an internal email? The theoretical monetary loss from Nintendo?Because the artist made it. It's theirs. They decide what to do with it and nobody else.
There's a difference between physical property (the things you listed) and intelectual property, though. Physical goods have the "problem" of scarcity, whereas intelectual property doesn't, and so they must be treated differently. For example, if I have an apple and you a banana, and we trade them, now I would have a banana but no apple and you would have an apple but no banana. If I tell you an story and you you tell me another story, now we both have the same stories.
Yes. (Though equating piracy with theft is goofy)Supporting and encouraging the gigaleak, means you support and encourage piracy/theft/hacking/illegal activity.
I never thought I'd see the day when a user proclaims "fuck corporations and capitalism" and "fuck all the labourers" at the exact same time. But here we are.
What is wrong with you?I believe these leaks are coming from iQue development where Nintendo licensed out its games to a Chinese company for the Chinese market.
If this was hacking into Nintendo to get these assets I would feel worse. But if Nintendo chose to work with this company and didn't do the due diligence, that is on Nintendo.
You seem to be focusing a lot on this email thing, which isn't what 99% of people online are looking at. They like the luigi model in sm64 or Super Donkey sprite or moomin bowser. Also, I'm not sure why we should give corporations the right to privacy when they profit off of our personal data.All individuals have a right to privacy and have a right to keep aspects of their work private, even if that work legally belongs to a corporation. Corporations are still made up of individuals who are deserving of the same rights we afford to ourselves. To deny them their rights because you want goodies is selfish
Probably the depth and volume. It's one thing to see a leak that goes deep on one game, but their leaks are covering nearly 30 years of content, all unfolding at the same time.
We have leaks that go as recent as 2016 in that timeline of info dumps.
Source code leaks are always controversial because they always contain information that isn't simply cool or interesting but voyeuristic and revealing. It just happens so very rarely that such detailed information still exists and leaks and contains embarrassing or potentially damaging information about people involved that it may seem like it's not controversial. It also depends on the leak itself, depending on the level of care the people releasing the information take to curate it.
That's a really interesting point. One of the main historic comparisons that comes to my mind is the Half Life 2 leak and how Gabe Newell went on record at the time about how it affected him on a personal level.
I think one of the distinctions that we often make as a wider community is to focus on the effect of pre-release leaks of things that are WIP, such as the Half Life 2 leak briefly mentioned above and the pre-release cinematics that got leaked from The Last of Us Part 2. I think people would generally agree that pre-release leaks can have a distinct impact on a game or on the teams that are working on it. This could include the marketing, development and potentially even the financial success once the game is released.
I feel like post-release leaks of WIP content have a different context but can still have an impact on the individuals and teams that worked on those games. The analogy that Cheesemeister gave in his original thread that I reused for the title of this thread was that of 'barging in backstage uninvited'. Digital and other forms of visual or written media provide a unique context for this kind of thing to take place compared to other forms of work because we are often able to gain perspective on the thought process or considerations that go into the making of a particular thing. We are able to see not just the thing itself but with things like source code or other reference material we can get insight into exactly how a particular thing is achieved, hence 'barging in backstage'.
I would make a comparison to someone releasing the handwritten, private notes or correspondence made by an author, film maker or musician relating to their work. Some people may not mind having that kind of stuff released to a wider audience, but for some it is a thing that is deeply personal and intimate.
There was a recent exhibit supported by Stanley Kubrick's family where many hundreds of pieces of his personal correspondence, reference material and equipment were shown alongside footage from his movies, models and other exhibits relating to his work. Included amongst this were personal letters alongside boxes upon boxes of material that he built up in the making of his movies, including movies that he ultimately never finished. That exhibit would never be possible without the support from Stanley Kubrick's family, but I somehow doubt the exhibit would even take place at all if he was still alive today. Would it be right for someone to have gone through and taken copies of each of these things without his family's knowledge if they didn't agree to holding the exhibit?
I don't think many people would agree with that taking place, and I don't think this situation is exactly like that, but I think there are similarities. I find it surprising how in some ways the wider video game community so desperately wants video games to be treated as art and for the people who work on this stuff to be recognised and appreciated, and yet when something like this happens that we may reasonably assume isn't in the best interests of the original creators we are more interested in indulging our own curiosity rather than respecting the wishes of others.
So uh, what you're arguing is that anything that exists in digital form is magically immune from private property laws? Are you nuts?
Then please dump your entire hard drives, SD cards, phone memory, e-mails, etc. on a public space. I'm waiting. Its not private since it's digital, right?
You seem to be focusing a lot on this email thing, which isn't what 99% of people online are looking at. They like the luigi model in sm64 or Super Donkey sprite or moomin bowser. Also, I'm not sure why we should give corporations the right to privacy when they profit off of our personal data.
and the emails thing really isn't a major deal. If I were leaking these things, I wouldn't leak them but I didn't, so alas, they're out there. When someone taps into koizumi's bank account, get back to me. Until then you're cherry picking little concerns to defend your caping for a company that will sell your buying history to a data firm without a second thought.
It's funny how a lot of you are conflating personal information with game source codes. First of all, leaking personal correspondence is bad, no exuses for that.
But leaking stuff like source codes, sprites, etc. can only be a good thing. It has a historical and educational value and should absolutely be released to the public after some defined amount of time. No one is hurt by doing that and if you think that Nintendo, a global corporation, is suffering some significant damage (or any at all), I can only laugh at that.
No. Don't try to read into what is not there. I'm saying literally what I wrote, that they are different and must be treated differently. An exemple of it being treated differently: If I buy a wooden chair, I own it and can do what I want it, I can cut it up and repropuse it for something else for exemple. The guy that made and designed the chair can't do anything about that. However, under current copyright laws they can stop me from copying their design.
It's because it's big and it's Nintendo. Both of these things make people care about the leaks, and it being Nintendo makes people's emotion attachment to the brand go off.This thread is pretty funny. Is it because...of the company involved? There have been plenty of source leaks in the past, and I do not seem to remember this sort of uproar.
I for one welcome these leaks, as it gives a fascinating window into game development. At the end of the day I'm not profiting off of this, but the companies will continue making millions, so I'm not really bothered over this.
Easy to handwave away concerns when you also want to know what's in the boxOnly creators will have the empathy to understand how much this sucks, while the rest will be all like "but muh preservation, but big corporations, but they wouldn't have released it anyway and I deserve to know".
This is stolen shit, it shouldn't have seen the light of day until the creators said otherwise.
Funny how can be banned for the dumbest shit on this forum but theres a warning in the original thread about not questioning the legality or morality of these actions. What the actual fuck is wrong with this forum and their cherry picked moral battles.
Unless Miyamoto's address is encoded into Yoshi's skin, I don't see why I should have any issue with 25 year old sprites being leaked. They're pixels, dude.Those models and sprites were also made by private individuals who last I checked didn't consent to that work being leaked. It's not just e-mails
An individual Yoshi sprite sheet may be harmless, but the collective size and amount of data in these leaks is absolutely not OK, which have also included OS source code and the contents of emails. It's absolutely careless and thoughtless to be dumping all of this without any regard to the people involved.Unless Miyamoto's address is encoded into Yoshi's skin, I don't see why I should have any issue with 25 year old sprites being leaked. They're pixels, dude.
I dunno maybe I empathise too much with creators. Maybe I should go on Twitter and tell Dylan Cuthbert that we're stealing all of his work and that he can go fuck himself for participating in the capitalist system