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Jedi2016

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,693
I mean, there's not many other reasons to knowingly lie in such a blatant way except malice.
 

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,142
I don't envy jury selection in these crazy times.

You have ppl in deep conspiracy bubbles.
 

BWoog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
38,280
Trump arrested and Fox News potentially having to pay for their rampant bullshit? WHAT A WEEK!
 

SaberVS7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,258
It's not going to matter, Fox's shadowy benefactors will reimburse every last penny of damages they have to pay.

A few billion is a rounding-error on the "Establish Fascism in America" budget.
 

ChuckXL

Banned
May 3, 2018
2,448
mo,small,flatlay,product_square,600x600.u2.jpg
 

Neonvisions

Member
Oct 27, 2017
520
How does this work? Do they get damages from the judge's decision and then another one if the jury finds Fox guilty of malice?
 

Seik

Member
Jan 5, 2023
1,899
Québec City
Wtf is going on this week with all the good news.

I'm not used to amounts like this, this is going to fuck up my system to the point where I'll shit water lmao.
 

Gigglepoo

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,317
I mean, there's not many other reasons to knowingly lie in such a blatant way except malice.

I actually thought the exact opposite. Fox doesn't care about Dominion specifically, they just wanted to boost ratings and (maybe) help Trump. Here's a quick definition I found:

conscious, intentional wrongdoing either of a civil wrong like libel (false written statement about another) or a criminal act like assault or murder, with the intention of doing harm to the victim. This intention includes ill-will, hatred or total disregard for the other's well-being.

I think it can be argued that Fox wasn't trying to do harm to Dominion. Or does it not matter that Fox wanted to help themselves more than hurt Dominion?
 

Primus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,840
How does this work? Do they get damages from the judge's decision and then another one if the jury finds Fox guilty of malice?

No, it's all the same case. There's two prongs for proving defamation: the statements said were proven falsehoods, and they were said with "actual malice". The judge today gave Dominion the proven falsehoods portion, so they no longer have to prove that in court. Means the jury trial will solely focus on actual malice.
 

Lmo2017

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,118
To the east of Parts Unknown...
I think it can be argued that Fox wasn't trying to do harm to Dominion. Or does it not matter that Fox wanted to help themselves more than hurt Dominion?

That's what total disregard for other's well being is for. Fox doesn't have to actually want to hurt Dominion (but I'd say they probably had a vested interested to appease Trump.) they just have to choose their profits over Dominions reputation and safety when reporting a false story.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
53,073

View: https://twitter.com/questauthority/status/1641915080479744001?s=20

Part of me genuinely thinks Fox is gonna push hard for a settlement at this point.

I think that would be the smart thing to do, but if the people running Fox were smart, they wouldn't be in this situation.

I don't want a settlement. I want them to drag their lifeless bloated corpse through the legal streets and shake them down for the full amount.


This is the most solid shot anyone has ever been able to take at these monsters.
 

Shoeless

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,000

Hellwarden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,138
Oh, can they still back out to a settlement at this point?

For some reason, I thought this was a point of no return, and the trial HAD to go forward.

They could absolutely offer something to get out of a trial.

Whether they will or if Dominion would accept it is to be seen.

Unless they offer a settlement that's accepted, they're going to trial tho.
 

Deleted member 22750

Oct 28, 2017
13,267
cut and dry


the 21st century poster child of defamation
 

Jordan117

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,998
Alabammy
They better sequester the fuck out of that jury.

And boot anybody who's been marinating in the Fox echo chamber since the case started.
 

Saucycarpdog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,351
I think it can be argued that Fox wasn't trying to do harm to Dominion. Or does it not matter that Fox wanted to help themselves more than hurt Dominion?
Doubt that defense would work. That would shield literally any publication or tabloid from defamation.

"You see we only made up the Taylor Swift sex scandal for attention. We didn't do it because we personally hated her."
 

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
On Break
Oct 25, 2017
32,776
I actually thought the exact opposite. Fox doesn't care about Dominion specifically, they just wanted to boost ratings and (maybe) help Trump. Here's a quick definition I found:



I think it can be argued that Fox wasn't trying to do harm to Dominion. Or does it not matter that Fox wanted to help themselves more than hurt Dominion?
This

or total disregard for the other's well-being.
likely applies here.

Fox knowingly lied, they didn't care about the damage their lies would do, and any idiot could have forseen that these lies would hurt Dominion.

There is a shockingly strong case against Fox News here, to the point where I'm flabbergasted that they actually left themselves open to this. Any other news outlet would have easily sidestepped this whole thing.
 
Oct 27, 2017
10,201
PIT
This is REALLY bad for Fox. Not impossible to surmount, but yeah there is a clear motive and tons of evidence. I don't know how they win unless they pull a "everyone was reporting it!"
 

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
On Break
Oct 25, 2017
32,776
This is REALLY bad for Fox. Not impossible to surmount, but yeah there is a clear motive and tons of evidence. I don't know how they win unless they pull a "everyone was reporting it!"
That wouldn't work because literally everyone else was calling it a conspiracy theory and debunking it. Fox left themselves shockingly open here. Their lawyers must have been totally comatose to allow this to happen.
 

sonicmj1

Member
Oct 25, 2017
680
I mean, there's not many other reasons to knowingly lie in such a blatant way except malice.
To be clear, "actual malice" in the context of defamation law is not "malice" in the normal sense of the word. A statement made with actual malice, as defined in the landmark case New York Times v. Sullivan, is "made with knowledge of its falsity or with reckless disregard of whether it was true or false." It has nothing to do with how you feel about the target of the statements. That's good, because I don't think (and it would be hard to show) most people at Fox bore Dominion any particular ill will: they just wanted to make money and were happy to lie (and harm others) to do it.

Dominion's briefs on this point seem to show that there were many people in senior positions at Fox who knew the statements being made about Dominion were false as these statements were going on the air (or were so skeptical of where these theories were coming from that they were reckless to put them on the air). What Fox argued in its briefs was that, with the hosts, the evidence isn't enough to say they knew the statements were false and/or they expressed sufficient skepticism on the air to not be considered to have made those statements, and with the executives, that there isn't enough evidence to show that those higher up the chain directed the content of the Fox broadcasts where the defamation occurred. The judge was reluctant to make a firm finding of fact on the mindset of those at Fox, so the trial will be almost entirely on that point.

This is very unusual. A big part of defamation is whether the statements made were true (or whether they were opinion), and so to have a court find, as a matter of law, that it was "CRYSTAL clear that none of the Statements relating to Dominion about the 2020 election are true" (emphasis in the original) is a big step. It also closes off a lot of other defamation defenses that Fox would otherwise be able to use. They're in a very difficult position now.
 

PAFenix

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Nov 21, 2019
14,685

View: https://twitter.com/questauthority/status/1641915080479744001?s=20

Part of me genuinely thinks Fox is gonna push hard for a settlement at this point.

I think that would be the smart thing to do, but if the people running Fox were smart, they wouldn't be in this situation.


Please don't Settle....... Hopefully Dominion is aware since they deal in voting that what Fox is doing is bad and they need to be properly punished.....but they're also a business and I can see a business accepting money if it's enough to fix the damage to their rep with the caveat of statements from Fox on air or some shit.
 

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
On Break
Oct 25, 2017
32,776
To be clear, "actual malice" in the context of defamation law is not "malice" in the normal sense of the word. A statement made with actual malice, as defined in the landmark case New York Times v. Sullivan, is "made with knowledge of its falsity or with reckless disregard of whether it was true or false." It has nothing to do with how you feel about the target of the statements. That's good, because I don't think (and it would be hard to show) most people at Fox bore Dominion any particular ill will: they just wanted to make money and were happy to lie (and harm others) to do it.

Dominion's briefs on this point seem to show that there were many people in senior positions at Fox who knew the statements being made about Dominion were false as these statements were going on the air (or were so skeptical of where these theories were coming from that they were reckless to put them on the air). What Fox argued in its briefs was that, with the hosts, the evidence isn't enough to say they knew the statements were false and/or they expressed sufficient skepticism on the air to not be considered to have made those statements, and with the executives, that there isn't enough evidence to show that those higher up the chain directed the content of the Fox broadcasts where the defamation occurred. The judge was reluctant to make a firm finding of fact on the mindset of those at Fox, so the trial will be almost entirely on that point.

This is very unusual. A big part of defamation is whether the statements made were true (or whether they were opinion), and so to have a court find, as a matter of law, that it was "CRYSTAL clear that none of the Statements relating to Dominion about the 2020 election are true" (emphasis in the original) is a big step. It also closes off a lot of other defamation defenses that Fox would otherwise be able to use. They're in a very difficult position now.
They're basically screwed and it's also important to remember that this also opens the door for the OTHER lawsuit along these lines.
 

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
On Break
Oct 25, 2017
32,776
Please don't Settle....... Hopefully Dominion is aware since they deal in voting that what Fox is doing is bad and they need to be properly punished.....but they're also a business and I can see a business accepting money if it's enough to fix the damage to their rep with the caveat of statements from Fox on air or some shit.
They'd be completely insane to not try and settle. Like literally in need of institutionalization insane. They're Uber boned here.
 

Primus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,840
On the flip (doooooooooooooooooooooooom) side, it also offers an opportunity to take NYT v Sullivan to SCOTUS and there are a lot of people who are absolutely in a froth about making that ruling go away.
 

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
On Break
Oct 25, 2017
32,776
On the flip (doooooooooooooooooooooooom) side, it also offers an opportunity to take NYT v Sullivan to SCOTUS and there are a lot of people who are absolutely in a froth about making that ruling go away.
I don't think it does though, there's no grounds to challenge it. Fox knowingly lied. That's game, set, and match.
 

skullmuffins

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,426
if NYT v Sullivan went away, Fox would be in even deeper shit since Dominion wouldn't have to prove actual malice.
 

Cat Party

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,420
How does this work? Do they get damages from the judge's decision and then another one if the jury finds Fox guilty of malice?
No, they have to prove actual malice to get any damages. But if they do, the damages will most likely be stratospheric.

On the flip (doooooooooooooooooooooooom) side, it also offers an opportunity to take NYT v Sullivan to SCOTUS and there are a lot of people who are absolutely in a froth about making that ruling go away.
Sullivan protects the right more than the center or left. I don't think it's really in play.
 

PAFenix

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Nov 21, 2019
14,685
They'd be completely insane to not try and settle. Like literally in need of institutionalization insane. They're Uber boned here.

Just to make sure we're on the same page, you're referring to Fox right? Because I agree that THEY would be desperate to settle.

My concern is over whether or not Dominion will accept one.
 

Saucycarpdog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,351
Also the CEO of Fox knew about the election lies but stated it was "bad for business" to fact check them.

Fox News CEO Suzanne Scott sounded the alarm inside the company about the financial fallout that the right-wing network would suffer if it continued aggressively fact-checking then-President Donald Trump's lies after the 2020 election, according to messages that became public Wednesday.

In one instance, Scott emailed Meade Cooper, executive vice president of prime time programming, and expressed frustration after correspondent Eric Shawn appeared on Martha MacCallum's show and fact-checked Trump and a Sean Hannity guest.

"This has to stop now," Scott said in a December 2, 2020, message.

"This is bad for business and there is a lack of understanding what is happening in these shows," Scott added. "The audience is furious and we are just feeding them material. Bad for business."
 

Version 3.0

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,187
I heard elsewhere - can't remember where - that this lawsuit, in which Dominion is asking for $1.6 billion in damages, could actually result in them winning the $1.6 billion in compensatory damages, but also potentially much more in punitive damages.

Anyone know if that's actually true? It would be amazing to see them lose and suddenly the amount is ten times higher.


Also, I understand why the judge felt compelled to send this to trial for the high bar of actual malice, but we've all seen how clear this is. It's a shame he couldn't justify summary judgement on the whole thing.
 

Masterz1337

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,802
Question. Does malice have to be "Fox News was out to hurt dominion" or "Fox News was out to hurt someone else and dominion was collateral damage"

If malice is shown against dominion, wouldn't by extension every state have the right to sue as fox would have actively with malicious intent try to damage the government in those states? As well as federal?